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Hi all, we have some important news to share. Please follow the link here to find out more!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058419143/important-news/p1?new=1

The Irish language is failing.

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Comments

  • #2732
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,634 ✭✭✭feargale


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    You could perhaps quote some of those "insults"?
    Or, ya know, use the report button?
    Didn't think so.

    I never said it was a report button matter. You will be aware if you know the difference that some latitude is allowed in boards re bigotry and bad manners.
    So, the call for a modicum of good manners is in vain. Should I say: thought so?


  • #2733
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    feargale wrote: »
    I never said it was a report button matter. You will be aware if you know the difference that some latitude is allowed in boards re bigotry and bad manners.
    So, the call for a modicum of good manners is in vain. Should I say: thought so?
    No, what you should do is what I asked you to do: quote where I insulted "a language, a culture and a community", which I notice you have again failed to do. I wonder why that might be?
    It's also poor manners to lie through the teeth about what other people have posted for sympathy votes.


  • #2734
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,634 ✭✭✭feargale


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    No, what you should do is what I asked you to do: quote where I insulted "a language, a culture and a community", which I notice you have again failed to do. I wonder why that might be?
    It's also poor manners to lie through the teeth about what other people have posted for sympathy votes.

    Read post 2717 again and note the word of yours that I made bold.


  • #2735
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    feargale wrote: »
    Read post 2717 again and note the word of yours that I made bold.
    Unless you yourself are proposing that the Irish language, the Irish culture and the entire Irish speaking community are part of the Gailgeban (something which I have never done) you haven't a leg to stand on here.
    Are you doing this?

    How can I "insult a language" anyway?


  • #2736
    Boom_Bap
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,740 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    MOD

    Can you please start having a civil discussion. No more sniping, claims of insults, requests for statistical data, claims of misnterpretation of data, requests of quotes from other users.


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  • #2737
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    The positive reasons being?
    Nobody appears to be either enjoying or embracing it. What's healthy about that?

    Here's my more detailed reply as promised....

    The positive reasons that people enjoy and embrace the auld bit of Gaeilge
    1. To have the craic
    2. To appreciate in full the cultural legacy bestowed upon us by a large proportion of our ancestors
    3. To annoy the monolinguals
    4. To reclaim our right to express ourselves in all our national languages
    5. To enjoy private conversations on holidays abroad (or in Dublin)
    6. To express ourselves artistically through the media of poetry, literature, music, drama, film, theatre using the unique way of thinking that Gaeilge affords us.

    I could continue but that is only a brief summary of some of the positives associated with Gaeilge...Aren't we fortunate to be so well endowed!


  • #2738
    Gael Mire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76 ✭✭Gael Mire


    Dughorm wrote: »
    Here's my more detailed reply as promised....
    ...To annoy the monolinguals

    :D More of a bonus really


  • #2739
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Dughorm wrote: »
    Here's my more detailed reply as promised....

    The positive reasons that people enjoy and embrace the auld bit of Gaeilge
    1. To have the craic
    2. To appreciate in full the cultural legacy bestowed upon us by a large proportion of our ancestors
    3. To annoy the monolinguals
    4. To reclaim our right to express ourselves in all our national languages
    5. To enjoy private conversations on holidays abroad (or in Dublin)
    6. To express ourselves artistically through the media of poetry, literature, music, drama, film, theatre using the unique way of thinking that Gaeilge affords us.

    I could continue but that is only a brief summary of some of the positives associated with Gaeilge...Aren't we fortunate to be so well endowed!

    Well that's all very noble & dandy, (and I love the well endowed bit) ;)

    ...but does it really warrant that everybody studies Irish as children, from Primary school right up until leaving school at the age of eighteen or nineteen?

    WITHOUT the majority of students LEARNING to speak THE LANGUAGE.

    Surely its a terrible waste of time & effort for it to be compulsory for all?


  • #2740
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    LordSutch wrote: »
    ...but does it really warrant that everybody studies Irish as children, from Primary school right up until leaving school at the age of eighteen or nineteen?

    WITHOUT the majority of students LEARNING to speak THE LANGUAGE.

    I'm a very "BE GRAND" kind of bloke but your post has inspired me, a veritable call to action!

    How is it that majority haven't learned to speak the language?! What can we do!


  • #2741
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    Gael Mire wrote: »
    :D More of a bonus really

    Says a lot about "Irish culture"


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  • #2742
    323
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭323


    Dughorm wrote: »
    How is it that majority haven't learned to speak the language?!

    Progress at last. Think your the first Gaeilgeoir here to even entertain the possibility that the above is true. But is that not what this thread's been going on about for the last 6 months? The fact that it has taken that long for one Gaeilgeoir to accept and ask that question, shows how deep most of them in the system have buried their heads in the sand as to the real status of the language and just how banjaxed the system of teaching it is.
    Dughorm wrote: »
    What can we do!

    At this stage... Nothing. Think you-all missed that boat 50 or 60 years ago.

    “Follow the trend lines, not the headlines,”



  • #2743
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    323 wrote: »
    At this stage... Nothing. Think you-all missed that boat 50 or 60 years ago.

    Be grand. ;)


  • #2744
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,987 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    It's a great shame and to the great detriment of this country that the nationalist movement and our newly born independent nation were both hijacked by religious and linguistical extremists, who both felt justified in imposing their narrow view on everyone and brooking no dissent.

    We even had a poster who said that Irish should be made a requirement for standing for the Dail. Talk about subverting democracy. We might as well take the vote off non-Irish speakers while we're at it. It is clear that there are elements of the Irish language movement who simply will not tolerate other people's right to have an opinion, even as they dip their hands into these people's pockets to fund their hobby horse.

    As for the million plus people on the census who claim to speak Irish, they're simply either lying (or their mammy is lying on their behalf) or in very deep denial, just like the 84% who tick the Catholic box yet the churches are emptying by the week.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #2745
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    It doesn't really make sense for non Irish speakers to have a vote. They aren't real Irish people.


  • #2746
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    psinno wrote: »
    It doesn't really make sense for non Irish speakers to have a vote. They aren't real Irish people.
    Irish speaker != Irish nationality, apples & pears!

    Ireland is a bi-lingual country, and it is a fact that the vast majority are English speakers, Fact!


  • #2747
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Irish speaker != Irish nationality, apples & pears!

    Ireland is a bi-lingual country, and it is a fact that the vast majority are English speakers, Fact!
    Whoosh...


  • #2748
    Gael Mire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76 ✭✭Gael Mire


    LordSutch wrote: »
    ...but does it really warrant that everybody studies Irish as children, from Primary school right up until leaving school at the age of eighteen or nineteen?

    Yes. (Well you did ask)


  • #2749
    Shep_Dog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 499 ✭✭Shep_Dog


    Gael Mire wrote: »
    Yes. (Well you did ask)
    Even though the policy does not work and is a reason for the degradation of the Irish language?

    You reap what you sow.


  • #2750
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    I have no problem with it until it comes to leaving cert. It is not an essential life skill and should not affect a students points for getting into college when they plan to study something where it's not necessary. If a student wants to study architecture for example, and they are a poor student in Irish, why must they have their points dragged down by a subject they don't need?

    On saying that it is nice to keep the language alive, but some people simply have no aptitude for learning languages and it therefore should not be compulsory at leaving cert level.

    There are many similarities with the Irish language and the Maori language at home. Maori is taught throughout primary school in the hope that children will become fluent/develop an interest in the language, but once they hit high school (secondary) it is optional. If a student has no interest and has no need for the language in their chosen third level course/future career, what's the point?


  • #2751
    Shep_Dog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 499 ✭✭Shep_Dog


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    There are many similarities with the Irish language and the Maori language at home. Maori is taught throughout primary school in the hope that children will become fluent/develop an interest in the language, but once they hit high school (secondary) it is optional. If a student has no interest and has no need for the language in their chosen third level course/future career, what's the point?
    NZ is a quite an elightened country in many ways.

    In New Zealand, Is the Maori language a mandatory subject at all levels? Does New Zealand allow a choice, for example, Maori-medium teaching, Maori as a language, Maori as a cultural study with basic courtesy phrases, no Maori?

    Is there any state-funded organization in New Zealand that exists with the purpose of making all citizens there speak Maori as the country's common language?


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  • #2752
    kingchess
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 795 ✭✭✭kingchess


    New Zealand might be enlightened Country by why would they waste money on a language spoken by 4% of the population when they have English??(only joking)


  • #2753
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,575 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    kingchess wrote: »
    New Zealand might be enlightened Country by why would they waste money on a language spoken by 4% of the population when they have English??(only joking)

    I don't see how that is relevant to this discussion. :p


  • #2754
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,371 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Ros na Run has lot to answer for...they killed off the blonde wan that acted as a character called "lee". She was one of the main reasons I watched it! :D
    Lee.jpg

    I find the soap a great way to keep the ear in for the langauge and pick up new words and phrases. Better acting in it then English soaps or Irish soaps in English

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • #2755
    Blue Badger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 164 ✭✭Blue Badger


    Speaking of blondes in Ros na Rún, whatever happened to the actress on it who also starred in Seacht? She made me appreciate the Irish language! ;) Seacht itself needs to make a comeback. It is hands down the best Irish drama I've ever come across, not least because it's the only one I know of that was targeted at young adults as it followed a group of students at a university in Northern Ireland.


  • #2756
    Shep_Dog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 499 ✭✭Shep_Dog


    Blue Badger wrote: »
    Speaking of blondes in Ros na Rún, whatever happened to the actress on it who also starred in Seacht? She made me appreciate the Irish language! ;) Seacht itself needs to make a comeback. It is hands down the best Irish drama I've ever come across, not least because it's the only one I know of that was targeted at young adults as it followed a group of students at a university in Northern Ireland.
    'Seacht' aired back in 2008 and I'd guess no more series were made due to lack of funding. Not many people want to watch TV in Irish.

    Maybe if the Irish-language movement were to look for private-sector sponsorship, they might get more programmes? I'm sure there must be many companies looking to sell goods and services to such a well-educated and cultured demographic.


  • #2757
    Blue Badger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 164 ✭✭Blue Badger


    Maybe we just need to make Irish sexy. Ask the Taoiseach to hire Jennifer Lawrence and Emma Watson to star in a full on sex scene as gaeilge to be featured on TG4.... :p They could show it after the weather :p;)


  • #2758
    Shep_Dog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 499 ✭✭Shep_Dog


    Blue Badger wrote: »
    Maybe we just need to make Irish sexy. Ask the Taoiseach to hire Jennifer Lawrence and Emma Watson to star in a full on sex scene as gaeilge to be featured on TG4.... :p They could show it after the weather :p;)
    Peig would not be impressed.


  • #2759
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Shep_Dog wrote: »
    Peig would not be impressed.
    When she was young, she might have had a leading role, she wasn't always an old hag!


  • #2760
    Shep_Dog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 499 ✭✭Shep_Dog


    Deleted User wrote: »
    When she was young, she might have had a leading role, she wasn't always an old hag!
    I don't think de Valera would have imagined his 'comely girls' as lesbians.


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  • #2761
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,169 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Shep_Dog wrote: »
    Peig would not be impressed.

    Or her nephew. ;)


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