Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
Spitfire Total Rebuild!
Comments
-
-
-
-
-
When I'd done I'll give it all a coat of stonechip and the job's a good'un! :P No I'm not Ed China
Cheers guys, glad youre enjoying it. Cant wait to get that diff sorted and back on the chassis! I'll soon have something that'll move.....even if it is only by pushing! :P0 -
-
Well done on the diff rebuild, never doubted you for a minute! Discussing this today withe the 'someone more knowledgable than me' who will be helping me with the TR7 diff he made the interesting comment that he sets the preload by feel.. He explained he rebuilt an Atlas diff for a rally Escort to the book and after a trial the diff was red hot and he has done it by feel ever since without any issues...
I can understand that, you do kinda know A. when its too loose or B. when its too tight, youre kinda looking for that washboard'ie kinda feel....hard to explain. Best of luck with your diff build, its a lot of fun!
Well, I got the diff finished up; new seals in, gasket fitted and then I closed her up and it was ready to be fitted to the chassis........
It was an ape to get in on my own, getting the long cross bolt across the back was fun! :rolleyes:
Leaf spring mounted on top and half shafts fitted!
I have to give the spring housing a lick of paint.
Rebuilt rear brakes; new shoes and cylinders.
Kinda looking like a car
Next up, gotta get my wheels sorted so I can get this bad boy moving!0 -
-
-
Advertisement
-
Cheers guys!
Had a bit of a kick in the teeth last Thursday evening when the gearbox was stripped down and inspected. Main shaft has some very bad wear on it, a roller bearing essentially cut a nice deep recess into it! It'll need to be sent to a machine shop or a new one purchased. New shafts are almost €300!! :eek::eek: The gearbox must have been hanging out of it when it was last driven, that, coupled with the fcuked piston in the engine must have made it a real dog!! :rolleyes:
Lets make her beautiful again!! 0 -
CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »Cheers guys!
Had a bit of a kick in the teeth last Thursday evening when the gearbox was stripped down and inspected. Main shaft has some very bad wear on it, a roller bearing essentially cut a nice deep recess into it! It'll need to be sent to a machine shop or a new one purchased. New shafts are almost €300!! :eek::eek: The gearbox must have been hanging out of it when it was last driven, that, coupled with the fcuked piston in the engine must have made it a real dog!! :rolleyes:
Lets make her beautiful again!!
Don't forget the howling diff, she was a sweet baby alright:D:D. It was a bit like the hunter engine we bought years ago that was "going grand" with the head gasket blown between 2&3 and number 4's exhaust valve burned to a crisp.... Ahhh the 70's the good old days:cool::cool:0 -
Don't forget the howling diff, she was a sweet baby alright:D:D. It was a bit like the hunter engine we bought years ago that was "going grand" with the head gasket blown between 2&3 and number 4's exhaust valve burned to a crisp.... Ahhh the 70's the good old days:cool::cool:
Sweet!
Been a busy and interesting few days indeed! Let's get started.......
Sprayed the steel rims black, even though they do look a little greeny/grey in the pictures, weird.
Definately black though!
Little teaser of the finished rim. Chrome ring in place, not sure about the centre cap, I'll probably go black with the Spitfire centre decal in stainless.
Got the chassis down off its high horse(s) and two temp wheels put on up front. Couldnt resist plonking one of the seats in a rough posistion and doing this.....
*Vroooommmm vrooommmmm GEAR CHANGE vroooozzmmmmmmm* Ah yeah, someday soon
Brake lines ready to go on, only to discover later that the lines, although sold to me as for a Spitfire, definately aint for one! But, I might be able to salvage some of them and reuse.
Then......
Whats all this?!! A TOYOTA engine?!!!! :eek:0 -
-
Yes, its a Toyota engine! A 4E, 1.4 from a Corolla, this particular one was picked up free as a test dummy or mock up block if you wish.
The plan?
To mate a highly reliable, lightweight (compared to the Triumph lump) and fuel efficient engine with an overdrive Triumph gearbox.
Why would you do such a thing?!
Well, I have two 1300cc Triumph engines, one of them original to the car. Both however would require a full rebuild, re-bore etc which could cost big bucks, at the end of it you still have an engine thats 40+ years old and not renowned for their reliability. Ok, so there is a certain charm to having a big old lump up front; the sound, smell etc. But I dont think there is much charm is always having a feeling in the back of your mind that it wont start in the mornings or is going to konk out on you anywhere at any time.
The gearbox will be rebuilt, have a full kit of bearings, seals, gaskets, synchro rings etc, so, that'll be good as new.
Why not get a bigger and potentially better engine or gearbox if going to all this trouble?!
The Toyota 4EFE (as fitted in late 90's Starlets, Corollas etc) is a relatively lightweight engine, renowned for their reliability and longevity, it has an electronic distributor which makes things easier. They put out about 75hp which is more or less the same as the early 1300 engine I have. So, by using this particular type of engine it allows me to use the Triumph gearbox, the original prop shaft and differential without any worries that a bigger, more powerful engine would rip 'em apart. Plus, by using an original gearbox it gives me a known fixing point to work from; ie, fix the gerbox to its mounting and see where the engine lines up, from there make new mounts for the engine. Means very minimal alterations to the chassis, which, as you may have seen is painted and finished.
Hope that answers all questions and clears my consciene!
Ok, so, neighbour sourced a scrap block that could be used for mocking up purposes. Its a bit ropey, but probably could be made to work and certainly has some useable parts that could be salvaged. But a running 4E can be got for about €150.
Let project TRIOTA begin.....
Triumph bell house mounting plate offered up to the 4E. Plan was to use the original plate (behind the triumph one, to mask out the mounting holes).
Up on the bench! The Toyota plate, mounted behind the Triumph one would be temporarily mounted together.
Drilling out the mounting holes in the triumph plate using the toyota plate as a template.
Plate drilled, centre section marked up and ready to be cut out to allow the plate sit flush.
Cut! Plate mounted and sitting well on block.
Flywheel mounted and spinning freely.
Starter motor on the 4E is on the opposite side, so, modifications will have to be made, thus this hole will be plated in and rounded off in time.
Bell housing offered up.
Gearbox mounted to bell housing and the lot offered up.
Nice tight fit!
Critical measurements! Distance was measured from the face of the plate to the face of the flywheel on a Triumph block and then on the Triota....
Triumph: 27mm
Triota: 27mm!! Happy days!!
After this I losely assembled the clutch and pressure plate on the input shaft and bolted the bell housing back on and the input shaft spun when the engine was turned over......excellent.
Plan is to fit a larger 7 1/4" clutch plate with a larger pressure plate from a 1500. The sump will also need to be modified, as its to the front on this engine but needs to be more toward the rear. The front of this engine lines up very closely with the original engine mounting points so with a bit of clever steel work a nice engine mounting system will come together. Simple jobs I hope. Exciting times though.
I'm not after speed or performance with this, its a simple small engine but still, lighter than the original and with the reduced weight of the GRP bonnet she'll be nippy enough.0 -
That's very exciting :pac: the 4e in your picture looks like an 85bhp model with the later (97-) tubular intake manifold. The earlier (Irish 96-97) ones were 75bhp, they had this intake mani
You should keep an eye out, (if power is any way your thing) for any japanese import non turbo starlets as the 4e in these made 99bhp with bigger injectors and throttle body. It's a good gain at virtually no expense and at no cost to reliability.
Are you going to use the toyota loom and managment or build yourown system?0 -
Advertisement
-
-
Toyotafanboi wrote: »That's very exciting :pac: the 4e in your picture looks like an 85bhp model with the later (97-) tubular intake manifold. The earlier (Irish 96-97) ones were 75bhp, they had this intake mani
You should keep an eye out, (if power is any way your thing) for any japanese import non turbo starlets as the 4e in these made 99bhp with bigger injectors and throttle body. It's a good gain at virtually no expense and at no cost to reliability.
Are you going to use the toyota loom and managment or build yourown system?
The mock-up-block is a 1.4 from a Corolla, I'll probably be using a 1.3 from a Starlet, which, as your pic shows usually have the more basic inlet manifold. But, I have a tubular one now that can be reused That said, I cut cut the pipes down and add bike carbs or stick a 2" Jag carb onto the end of the manifold setup, its all to play for. Gonna try keep it as simple as possible and probably use the ECU if only for the spark timing etc, but that jobs one for my neighbour/mechanic; far more knowledgeable on these kind of things :P I would prefer to keep the power to the 75bhp mark or there about, it's enough I recon for a small light car, plus I dont want to put any unnecessary stress on the gearbox or diff. 0 -
Yup, I see where you're coming from with the reliability and economy. If originality isn't your thing then it makes perfect sense.
Now, where's that 'unfollow' button.:D (kidding)
You must have missed the bit where I chopped up the rear light panel to add my own light design; at that point originality went out the window
I've given it a lot of thought and deep contemplation, locked myself away for days on end, built a small hut from branches and twig on the side of a remote mountain and considered all the pros and cons of such an action. At the end I just thought, 'Yeah, sur why not! '
I've been driving a Starlet for the past 3 years or so, never once has she even hiccuped on me, only time I have to lift the bonnet if for fluid top ups and services. Thats the kinda' reliability I want from Spitty, something that I can enjoy and drive, heck, it'd nearly be a daily driver! 0 -
CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »The mock-up-block is a 1.4 from a Corolla, I'll probably be using a 1.3 from a Starlet, which, as your pic shows usually have the more basic inlet manifold. But, I have a tubular one now that can be reused That said, I cut cut the pipes down and add bike carbs or stick a 2" Jag carb onto the end of the manifold setup, its all to play for. Gonna try keep it as simple as possible and probably use the ECU if only for the spark timing etc, but that jobs one for my neighbour/mechanic; far more knowledgeable on these kind of things :P I would prefer to keep the power to the 75bhp mark or there about, it's enough I recon for a small light car, plus I dont want to put any unnecessary stress on the gearbox or diff.
I think it's a great plan anyway nice to see a 4e getting some love.
do bare in mind that all 4e engines whether corolla or starlet based are all 1332cc, there's no 1.3/ 1.4 alternates. The older 2e is 1298 and 5e (whose bottom end is interchangable with the 4e) is 1497.
There are a few lads on TOC-IRL running 4e's on ITB set-ups, it may be worth signing up there for sone info.
There is one setup still for sale afaik @€;450 for a full 4e on ITB's, with everything needed to get it going in terms of ecu/ loom etc, might be worth looking at the thread even if only for the photos :P http://www.toyotaownersclub-irl.com/t60921-gauging-interest-4efe-on-throttle-bodies0 -
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
Wonder what kind of reg it'll have?
The one listed on the logbook most likely :P
Next phase of project Triota under way. Mounting the block and gearbox on the spare chassis to establish fit etc.
Sump was removed to allow the 4E to be trial fitted. The sump will need to be modified to fit.
Problems encountered were the placement of the alternator, might be a bit tight and the intake manifold sits far too high for the bonnet.......replace with bike carbs perhaps!
NOTE: The 4E pictured is for trial fitting purposes only! I'll be purchasing another running example eventually.
1300 block and non OD gearbox mounted to chassis to establish the position the gearbox would sit. Gearbox would then have to be fixed in that position so the block could be lifted away.
Bit of angle made up with a locating stud on the end to hold the gearbox in place.
Same on the other side and a supporting prop underneath.
Bye bye block!
Gearbox held its position when block was taken away.
Toyota engine offered up (light enough to lift myself!!) and bolted up to the bell housing. Sump was removed as this will need work to clear the cross member on the chassis.
Exhaust will clear the turret, good!
Lines up pretty damn well
Should be easy enough to make some mounting brackets.
Front of the block lines up almost with turret mounts.0 -
-
If I was at this stage I'd be trying an MX5 engine and box instead , because of the sump issues, With the Toyota. Loads on google in spitfires
MX5 engines and boxes arent that easy to come by really, that and the fact that I'd need have the drive shaft shortened and the bigger engine would probably make short work of my newly overhauled differential (which was designed for an engine in or around the 70bhp region). Probably mean more cutting and chopping, more than I'd be prepared to do. The 4E seems to be going well thus far, plus, I drive one daily in my little Starlet Not the most powerful engine ever, but its a light engine and its going into a light car; should be nippy enough.
Regarding the sump, well, thats easy, chop the lower section off and spin it around so the hump is to the rear instead of the front, modify the oil pick up too so it reaches back to it.......thats the plan anyway.0 -
-
Yeah I've chopped sumps before and modified pick up , hence my comment, anyway well done so far .
Watch this space, thats the next job on the list
Hopefully will be picking up a 96 Starlet over the next couple of days that will have many useable parts such as:
-Engine (100k on the clock)
-Loom and ECU
-Radiator
-Has good 13" tires that I can use on my rims
Plus other parts I can salvage for my own starlet! :P
Also purchased a set of Honda cbr throttle bodies to stick on the side
I'll be back......0 -
-
-
Advertisement
-
Been a very busy few days, progress has been good and things are moving along nicely. Like they say, picture paints a thousand words.......
Engine propped in posistion and the engine mounts fixed to the turrets, sections of plate were ten fixed to both of these and one to the bracket on the engine block.
Mounts are slightly bigger than the regualr Spitfie engine mounts, they're from a larger 6 pot engine, GT6, Stag etc.
View from above, next step was to bend up some pipe to connect the three mounts....
Like so.
Welding the bracket up.
All welded up and a brace put across the bottom to support the turrets.
Loks good and fits well! Needs a bit of a grinding and clean up and it'll be good for paint.
Next question........would it fit under the bonnet?0 -
Yes, yes it would
Lifted on the fibre glass GT6 bonnet for a look see. Hinge boxes set at their lowest setting and scrap bulhead section put in place to support the bonnet.
Plenty of room underneath. In fact, there was enough room for a boot!
Pulley clears the steering rack too.
The sump was next on the list. As the 'hump' is to the front on the Toyota engine this would have clashed with a crossmember on the chassis, so the only thing to do (bar chopping the chassis) was to mod the sump.....
Marked up for the chop.
Chopped!
Because we'd be swapping the hump around to the far end of the sump the pickup would also have to be modified to reach to the far end, so, that got the chop too.....
Connection chopped from original pickup; I'll be needing that.
Trial pickup bent up and held in place.
As it turns out it needed a bit of lenghtening to reach into the sump with the filter in place. So now that the proper lenght an angles have been determined a new one can be bent up and welded up.
Couple of tacks put on the sump for a trial fit and it goes on just fine!0 -
This thing came along then........
96 Starlet, 100k on the clock and engine dry as a bone! That'll do nicely.
Then these appeared!!! :eek: Honda CBR throttle bodies, but, thats for a later stage
Now, the 4EFE engine has an electronic dizzy that would clash with the bulkhead of the Spitty tub, so, a little bit of relieving was required....
Dizzy sticking out of the rear, as highlighted.
Where it would clash with the Spitty bulkhead.
Thus this area on the bulkhead would have to go....
And then it was gone.
Bit of angle made up to support the cut out section.
Fits in something like so.
View from the inside, the card gearbox tunnel cover will need to be modified to fit around this eventually, but thats a minor issue.
So yeah, thats basically been it, been very busy!!
Oh, knicked the tyres off the Starlet too, almost new rubbers fit the 13" rims nicely! Back two to fit yet, but, she rolls :cool:
0 -
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
Toyotafanboi wrote: »It was in the 96-99 starlet turbo and iirc the 90-95 starlet turbo aswell (probably others too) which i'm sure you know are easily found. For the purposes of what you're doing it's perfectly interchangable.
toyodiy.com is handy if you want to look up a part number or check what parts are shared across various models.
I'll be saving that link, thanks!
Gave the tub a good sanding and de-greasing over the weekend, masked her up and brushed/rolled on a coat of 2k epoxy primer. She'll need a second coat, but it'll prevent rust from forming and tide her over the winter as well as making an excellent base for filler and highbuild. What's more, its almost ready to be reunited with the chassis!:D
Stuck a few bits on her rear end for a look'see :P Plan is to put stainless steel inserts behind the lights and have the panel finished in black, should give the chrome a bit of a bang!0 -
Little update, emphasis on little, had a week off work and it just seemed to fly by!
Got the main and input shaft sorted, had to leave it at an engineers shop for work but hopefully that'll be that issue sorted....
Roller bearing had wore a recess into the end of the shaft!! :rolleyes:
After a few weeks of being put on the long finger and many phonecalls later I got the reworked shafts back.....
Hardened steel sleeve on the end of the shaft.
New insert and roller bearing inside the end of the input shaft. Both of them fit together tight as a glove now!
After that it was a case of cleaning up and prepping the calipers for painting, which they have recieved.
And then attaching this thing to the inside of the tub!
Oh, and I cut a piece of stainless to fit in behind the lights. I like it......
0 -
Looked at the wiring harness then, freshly removed from the Starlet. Thinned it out a little before offering it up as there isnt as much room to play with in the Spitty tub and besides, a lot of the wiring was either not in use or of no use to me in the Spitfire.
Lotta wires!
Scrap pile.
Started tracking it through the tub then, just to get an idea of how things would pan out, what needed to go where and what directions I needed to go. For the most part it seems to be working out pretty good. Watch this space...
Onto the gearbox then.......
Freshly painted casing have the threads cleaned up.
All the bits and bobs lined up after being cleaned. Picked up a rebuild kit from Paddocks that had all the necessary bearings, needle rollers, gaskets, circlips etc...
Had two gearbox too pick and mix from so got a good selection of clean gears.
Had to make up a stand to hold the casing, vital if you're doing a rebuild! Bloody thing has no flat surfaces apart from the ends and thats not much good. So, for the sake of a few mins cutting and drilling it made life so much easier!
0 -
-
-
Wow is all I can say. That is a real labour of love. And I'm a bit envious too. Time, space, help and above all patience.
Cheers! The pics and updates here might look great but let me tell you it's demanding, almost every free hour I can muster goes into the project; it can be frustrating, annoying, draining, expensive and consuming! Still envious?
I'll be at this car 2 years come next March, the only thing that gets me through at times and keeps a little momentum behind me is the fact that I've come so far and keep in mind the end goal......it'll be worth it!Toyotafanboi wrote:That's a "little" update Out of interest are you familiar with the wiring harness setup? Particularly the ones for the lights and indicators on the stalk? I'll need to figure out which is which so I can remove the plugs and swap over to the Triumph stalks and light switchs. 0 -
Advertisement
-
-
might help or might lead you astray altogether :
http://www.mearcat.com.ai/docs/EP82%20Starlet%20Wiring%20and%20Connectors.pdf
Linkey no workey Sounds very interesting though! 0 -
-
CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »Linkey no workey Sounds very interesting though!
Here's the same pdf, different link!
http://www.toyotagtturbo.com/wiki/EP82wiring/EP82%20Starlet%20Wiring%20and%20Connectors.pdf0 -
paulmclaughlin wrote: »Here's the same pdf, different link!
http://www.toyotagtturbo.com/wiki/EP82wiring/EP82%20Starlet%20Wiring%20and%20Connectors.pdf
That'll come in very handy, thanks guys! 0 -
Advertisement
Advertisement