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Spitfire Total Rebuild!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,397 ✭✭✭ SpitfireIV


    dharn wrote: »
    Does the lowe rust primer have any rust treatment properties or does it just cover the rust, would you not need something like jelonite first

    The LOWE rust primer is odd stuff, I cant seem to find much information about it, or its ingredients! Seems to be an Irish thing! It says it can be painted straight over rust and doesnt require any priming or prep other than to clean off any loose rust, dirt etc. But I do know its expensive and people swear by it.

    For the lower halfs of the sills/wings I have a couple of rust treatments by Bilth & Hamber called 'Deox Gel' and 'Hydrate 80', these kill and convert rust and the latter forms a rust proof barrier, I've coated the inside of the panels then with lowe and any area that will be closed up once the panels go on. The same treatment will be done on the underside of the car and on top of this will be applied epoxy resin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,574 dharn


    Ya thats what I was thinking all rusty surfaces should be treated with those chemicals that turn the rust black, then use your lowe rust primer, are the other rust treatment you mentioned expensive


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,397 ✭✭✭ SpitfireIV


    dharn wrote: »
    Ya thats what I was thinking all rusty surfaces should be treated with those chemicals that turn the rust black, then use your lowe rust primer, are the other rust treatment you mentioned expensive

    Its resonably enough priced and gets great reviews by all accounts, though some still swear by dinitrol products; but, you'd go mad trying to settle on the 'right' product. Just pick one and go for it.

    http://www.cleancar.ie/bilt-hamber.html#ty;pagination_contents;/bilt-hamber.html?page=2


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,574 dharn


    Thanks for taking time to reply, you must have it finished by now , spending so much time on the net, answering questions, !


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,397 ✭✭✭ SpitfireIV


    dharn wrote: »
    Thanks for taking time to reply, you must have it finished by now , spending so much time on the net, answering questions, !

    Hah, no, far from finished, another few months work in it yet :o The ol' 9-5 keeps the funds on the positive side; thats when I get some work done and not on the internet! :P


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,817 ✭✭✭✭ endacl


    The ol' 9-5 keeps the funds on the positive side

    You've a Saab too?!?

    :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,574 dharn


    I feel a dolly parton song coming on....


  • Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭ pheelay


    Following this thread with interest. I started the restore of Spitfire 1500 when I was young, only got as far as rebuilding chassis, suspension and part of the drivetrain. The body was well rotten and didn't know how to go about righting that. Fascinating to see this tub getting sliced up like a jigsaw and put back together!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,574 dharn


    Have to agree, so far it is really amazing


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,397 ✭✭✭ SpitfireIV


    dharn wrote: »
    I feel a dolly parton song coming on....


    This one?? Well, it has many layers of paint! :P


    Thanks for the interest pheely. I've yet to start on the chassis, but, thankfully I have a fairly clean chassis (that was painted by the previous owner) along with having a few new parts installed. But, that'll be stripped down regardless and fully poly bushed.




    Getting close to mounting the car in the rotisserie, but, first she would have to be braced up and secured once we were relatively happy with the door gaps etc.


    1381234_10153991668240591_1038484086313203563_n.jpg
    ^ Tunnel pushed into its new posistion and then stiched back to the floorpan.




    10001359_10153991668315591_4202771405232532412_n.jpg
    ^ Didnt spare on the braces, didnt want her flexing!





    10152409_10153991668440591_8307672510883281737_n.jpg
    ^ A bit of hauling, sweating, swearing and hammering got her off the levelled scaffold frame and down into the frame that was to be the rotisserie. :D



    You spin me right round baby, round round.....

    1412524_10153991668550591_2936841348227783074_o.jpg
    885800_10153991668460591_1740426337209074974_o.jpg
    1497965_10153991668580591_5513006134321629385_o.jpg

    Its great fun!! :p Its well balanched and really easy to spin, one person can do it!



    Now, with her spinable it was time to pull off the sills and have a look at what nasties lurked beneath!



    Next time we'll be dealing with issues such as this.....

    903954_10153991668465591_8178049341805907405_o.jpg

    and this....

    1932729_10153991668125591_4555157515605409113_o.jpg

    and this.....

    Garth-Brooks.jpg


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,574 dharn


    Workin nine to five.... was the song ! Were you not tempted to light a little fire under it, pig on a spit !! Sorry could not resist, the previous owner was some bodger


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,817 ✭✭✭✭ endacl



    and this.....

    Garth-Brooks.jpg

    Let me guess....

    "It's either five wheels, or no wheels! No compromise!"


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,397 ✭✭✭ SpitfireIV


    dharn wrote: »
    Workin nine to five.... was the song ! Were you not tempted to light a little fire under it, pig on a spit !! Sorry could not resist, the previous owner was some bodger

    Yes, there were times I was tempted to burn it and then a few times when I did!

    endacl wrote: »
    Let me guess....

    "It's either five wheels, or no wheels! No compromise!"

    Very good, why didnt I think of that?! :(:pac:




    Just because I'm bored at work here's another update.....


    10151214_10153991668495591_4050759080153798833_n.jpg
    ^ The bodged repair seen in the previous post was pulled off (didnt take too much effort as you might imagine!!) to reveal a rather nasty and quite rusty section.


    1538811_10154011443545591_798319001438525089_n.jpg
    ^ Also note the replacement angle/lipped piece above it, also a repair, this too, along with the lower A post section would have to go!


    10256173_10154011444225591_4432248516690293767_o.jpg
    ^ Snip snip, chop chop and youre left with bit of mangled car; noice! :o



    10256977_10154011443575591_6857910445908275623_o.jpg
    ^ Youre also left with a big gaping void!! :eek:



    10255656_10154011443535591_3278225817140442168_o.jpg
    ^ Thankfully the donor car had a new one of these fitted, it was just covered in seam sealer, glue and lots of bad welds (good for me because they just broke away!!) this was carefully and surgically removed with the help of a con saw and would then need to be cleaned up before being refitted to the new tub.


    1980050_10154011443770591_4462007453073462917_o.jpg
    ^ Also needed was a new repair section to form the angle/lip that the repair section would butt up against. Thus, the rust was cut away and a new angle piece bent up and trial fitted.



    10265488_10154030076055591_4820435864565340548_o.jpg
    ^ At this point we broke out the bargain buy €50 spot welder. This nifty little machine was being sold for spare, but, the neighbour (who's helping me with the build) was able to get it working after a clean down and quick once over!! :D Comes in extremely handy or the project!! (Also by this stage the inner sill was fitted, I'll cover that in the next post).



    1888906_10154030076255591_8116435957768160834_o.jpg
    ^ Welding in said repair section now that the lower A post section was spot welded and secure.





    1978380_10154030074675591_6948102914343127816_o.jpg
    135426_10154030074705591_3784560910718908793_o.jpg
    ^ Repair section cut and bent up for base of B post, in now for a trail fit to get the angles correct.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,397 ✭✭✭ SpitfireIV


    The sills of the Spitfire are made up of three sections; an outer sill, mid sill and inner sill. Unfortunately on this side (passenger) the inner sill couldnt be replaced and buying one? Well, that'd cost more money than I'd care to spend on something that I could probably make myself, so, thats what was done after the neighbour made up a home made metal bender!



    1490668_10154030074735591_9057227603109959578_o.jpg
    ^ The remains of the inner sill, by this time I had the rest of it cut away, but, this little section gives you an idea of what the rest was like!



    1655593_10154030074760591_6551163759462074290_o.jpg
    ^ Inner sill taking shape from 1mm galvanised mild steel.


    1962226_10154030074965591_1660879862659207038_o.jpg
    ^ Another lip bent.


    10250061_10154030075240591_7093904184085878889_n.jpg
    ^ Hardest part was shaping the ends of this new DIY inner sill to match the contours of the A and B post.



    10272708_10154030076750591_6520988793964140572_o.jpg
    ^ Like so (A post)


    10001182_10154030077190591_910976816137832158_o.jpg
    ^ B post

    This sill was tacked at the bas of the posts then spotwelded to the floor along its lenght.



    1497937_10154030075170591_7812716063277417387_o.jpg
    ^ Lower B post repair section welded in and still in need of some work/angles! Inside of the inner sill given a couple of coats of rust primer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,358 ✭✭✭ kev1.3s


    Really starting to move now ain't you?
    Nice work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,397 ✭✭✭ SpitfireIV


    kev1.3s wrote: »
    Really starting to move now ain't you?
    Nice work.

    Its all in the past Kev :pac:


    The last bunch of pics are maybe two months old by now, I keep a regular update on the Triumph Spitfire page on FB, I'm just copying the pics across onto this thread when I get a couple of moments; trying to catch up here :cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,358 ✭✭✭ kev1.3s


    Ah I see, I think that this part is the most rewarding part of a restoration, the transformation of a ball of scrap into a good solid car is something to be proud of.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,574 dharn


    Im addicted to this, would dearly love to get a spitty that might need a bit of tidying, but if faced with that amount of rot, I would have concluded that it was unrepairable but fair play to croppy as an amateur the work is amazing that neighbour is some welder I did not think it was possible to put so much weld on rust !


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,624 toastedpickles


    I'd bloody love one of those spinny frame things for my yoke, sealing up the underside is going to be a pain for me :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,397 ✭✭✭ SpitfireIV


    Right so, thats the weekend over with :(


    Left off with the inner sill having been fabricated and welded into place. Before the mid sill or diaphragm went in I made up a new floorpan strenghtener, you might remember that the original one was kinda' twisted and was removed, so, out with the sheet of 1mm metal, angle grinder and the sheet metal bender.


    10259900_10154011444105591_8106542329308803669_n.jpg
    ^ DIY sheet metal bender.


    1966198_10154011444000591_2570131475233293723_o.jpg
    ^ All worked out on paper and ready to go.....


    1898799_10154011444025591_639479157063753781_o.jpg
    ^ Taking shape.


    1980408_10154011444195591_6642316134096397967_o.jpg
    ^ Old and new (the old piece still has some floorpan attached!). The angle piece near the end required a bit of tinkering around with, but, it matches up pretty well! The recessed and angle holes from the original piece will be removed in one section and flush welded into the new piece.

    10171076_10154030077865591_3577878608598121064_n.jpg
    10170694_10154030077745591_1778909271187371633_n.jpg
    ^ In situ, it'll be welded in place once the correct angle of the sills is decided upon.



    1978505_10154030076680591_5662584221819151990_o.jpg
    ^ New mid sill cut and two very slight opposing angles bent on the top and bottom lips.


    10293811_10154030076620591_799298810542517975_o.jpg
    ^ Clamped on for a trial fit; doesnt look too bad!


    10257494_10154030077525591_2779513449705482240_o.jpg
    ^ Then it was out with the spot welder again!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,574 dharn


    Does the zinc coating make mig welding more difficult


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,397 ✭✭✭ SpitfireIV


    dharn wrote: »
    Does the zinc coating make mig welding more difficult

    Theres only a very lite, indeed a dusting of zinc on the sheets. Generally I'd clean it back with the flap wheel where its going to be welded, but, it doesnt seem to cause an issue with the welding; just burns away.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,397 ✭✭✭ SpitfireIV


    Lower inner wing panel/boot section was rusted beyond repair, now, although it was just the lower edge it would prove difficult to try and work around the windows/strengtheners, so, a complete replacement was fitted.


    1932729_10153991668125591_4555157515605409113_o.jpg
    ^ Looking a bit.....rusty, but, not bad for a 43 year old car I guess.


    1980356_10153991668245591_7100951771140178842_o.jpg
    ^ Replacement section in for a dry fit. The bumper iron mounting point will be fixed on later.



    1979123_10154088870135591_13858606021101650_o.jpg
    ^ Next up is that rusty wheel arch. Its for the most part salvageable and just requires some patching.


    10305064_10154088870140591_6338811084783882471_n.jpg?oh=b51b3b088d4ee415599b3a46f59974a8&oe=540D91F8&__gda__=1412145309_09d4f78e94ed6d00a1d7ab79db7407e4
    ^ Rear section of the arch, this has to go also!


    10341613_10154088870425591_8543310143709151573_n.jpg
    ^ Marked and ready for the chop!


    10272707_10154088870680591_8993796448286851336_o.jpg
    ^ Trying out a template.


    1911957_10154088870510591_3472884583043236718_o.jpg
    ^ Trial fit.


    1978383_10154088870690591_2881695286760219078_o.jpg
    ^ Bit of cutting and a few sparks later and this is what you get. Now, where'd I leave those flap discs??


    1897800_10154088870820591_3917897495131643296_n.jpg
    ^ Front of the arch repair sections being offered up for a trial fit.


    10317677_10154088871450591_4666018714203798489_o.jpg
    ^ Some of the welds on the arch cleaned up and given a quick coat of rust primer to hold her over. Some more welding will be done where the wheel arch meets the boot repair panel. Also note the mounting point for the bumper iron has been fitted.


    1800293_10154030077690591_3742284401301671620_n.jpg
    ^ Threw on the wing for a trial fit and the door gap dont look too bad at all!





    10256572_10154088871730591_326668185373181689_o.jpg
    ^ Next time we'll be trying to cleanly remove this driver side sill for reuse and see just how much of the floor on this side can be salvaged (or indeed, how much is to be cut away!).....


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,574 dharn


    Good stuff


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭ Daved_XB


    Epic work & skills.. Well done, I've always done all my own mechanical work on my two projects, but the body work stuff has always been out of my depth... But I have just started a nighttime welding course to see if I can't have a go at the next project whatever that my be.. Looking forward to more updates as you go..


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,574 dharn


    I recon the welding would be the easy bit, forming the parts shaping the metal etc is really difficult


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭ Daved_XB


    dharn wrote: »
    I recon the welding would be the easy bit, forming the parts shaping the metal etc is really difficult

    Well with a lot of the rust areas on the Muscle cars I own, they sell preformed repair panels that just need someone who's neat with a welder to weld in... The biggest danger is getting too much heat into the panel & warping them..

    The welding course I've just started also covers shrinking for just such a disaster :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,397 ✭✭✭ SpitfireIV


    Cheers guys! :o I must add, if I havent already, that I cant claim credit for the welding, my neighbour is a master at that so I leave that to him, I'd love to be able to weld myself, but, its a skill that needs to be learned properly I reckon and done right. Fabricating the repair sections, panels etc; that I can do and enjoy! :D



    Right, on to the driver side floorpan and getting that sill off! Like a lot of previous work done on this car the sill had been plug welded on badly, posistioned incorrectly and when a dose of filler was cleaned off the underside of the floorpan adjacent to the sill it was found to be a series of patches and poor repairs.

    Best course of action: - remove and reuse the sill and cut away and replace the bad section of floorpan.


    Hereeeee we go.....


    10268653_10154088871885591_1710643291014261080_n.jpg
    ^ Trying to remove the sill as cleanly as possible. Note also all the welds and repairs on the floorpan.



    10333645_10154088871800591_2919889943310484977_o.jpg
    ^ Floorpan patchwork.....gotta go!


    57463_10154088871625591_4269141706753012433_o.jpg
    ^ Inner sill looks solid, mid sill, from this angle, looks like scrap!!


    1501233_10154088872190591_5634901808794636579_o.jpg
    ^ Outer sill (rocker panel for any American viewers) removed. Forgot to take a picture of the mid sill before I cut it away, but, suffice to say it was cut away because it was rotten! Thankfully, as I thought, the inner sill was fine, just needed a cleaning and to be straightened up. Also note the base of the A pillar is totally rusted away at the floorpan!


    10258571_10154088872325591_849128122757875462_o.jpg
    ^ Floorpan marked up to be cut out.


    1956823_10154088872330591_8021705416432469526_o.jpg
    ^ Replacement section cut from 1.6mm mild steel and angle folded over to attach the mid sill to.


    10333664_10154088872475591_22382982049092635_o.jpg
    ^ Looks almost good enough to weld! You'll probably note that there are channels or ribs in the original floorpan, for strenght, however, the new repair section doesnt have these! Well, thats partially why I used the 1.6mm and eventually, in time, where the repair section meets the floorpan will be heated with a gas torch and hammered out to math the rib on the floorpan.



    10269030_10154088872700591_4834516301607736169_o.jpg
    ^ Repair section tack welded in and the spot welder busy at work spotting the inner sill to the new floorpan section. The new section will have to have mounting points for the seat and a seatbelt anchor fitted eventually.


    10012124_10154088872810591_4707275017624329818_o.jpg
    ^ New mid sill cut and bent to shape and spot welded to the inner sill and lip of the floorpan.


    10259104_10154088872915591_3829619026123071672_o.jpg
    ^ Instead of making a replacement section for the lower B post and a mid sid, I bent them all together in the one piece. It still needs to be welded in on top and folded slightly on the bottom left corner to straighten it out, but, it does the job!



    Next job then was to replace that rusty lower A post section. I had thought to try repair it, but, figured as I had a relatively new one in the donor/pile of scrap I'd retrieve that one, clean it up and stick it in!


    Now, where'd I leave the con saw???? Oh yes.......

    1909163_10154088872845591_8049820245131409493_o.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,574 dharn


    Croppy I noticed the original panel with the bumper bracket had a raised area pressed in to it probably for strengthening purposes, yours is just flat and the openings in it were ignored seems a pity as all your work so far is so good, this looks bodged ( just being a bit picky ):)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,397 ✭✭✭ SpitfireIV


    dharn wrote: »
    Croppy I noticed the original panel with the bumper bracket had a raised area pressed in to it probably for strengthening purposes, yours is just flat and the openings in it were ignored seems a pity as all your work so far is so good, this looks bodged ( just being a bit picky ):)

    I would have liked to put the windows back in, but, to do it correct you'd need to joggle the edges of the window to add strenght; I dont have a joggler (although if I were to start the project again, for the sake of €50 or so I would have bought one).


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