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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

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  • #7112
    alias no.9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,413 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    I'm just looking at Henshaw's history there and he too played FB more than centre before Schmidt put him in there.
    I'm not complaining about Payne playing there, or Henshaw for that matter, I just always thought it funny that there were other players he could have picked who were already mainly playing centre but he went for the pairing he did.

    I suppose the likes of Fitzgerald and Earles being made of paper may have influenced his decision.

    Don't get me wrong, Payne is doing exactly the job he's being asked to do. I'm also sure he could play a more expansive game if asked to too.

    However, I also believe any of the alternative contenders would have been torn to shreds in certain sections of the media for not being early BOD in attack and reborn BOD in defence, something BOD never managed to be all at once. Payne being a Kiwi seems to be presumed to be better than all Irish born contenders.

    Payne is nearly 30 so probably won't have that long a tenure as green thirteen. Whoever replaces him will have the space to just fill the outside center jersey rather than having to fill BODs jersey. That's a major pressure of whomever that may be, whether its during this World Cup or the next or any 6 Nations in between.


  • #7113
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    alias no.9 wrote: »
    However, I also believe any of the alternative contenders would have been torn to shreds in certain sections of the media for not being early BOD in attack and reborn BOD in defence, something BOD never managed to be all at once. Payne being a Kiwi seems to be presumed to be better than all Irish born contenders.

    Payne is nearly 30 so probably won't have that long a tenure as green thirteen. Whoever replaces him will have the space to just fill the outside center jersey rather than having to fill BODs jersey. That's a major pressure of whomever that may be, whether its during this World Cup or the next or any 6 Nations in between.

    I wonder if Schmidt sees Payne as a good stopgap, maybe having someone in mind more long term for the position? Problem there is he's not signed on long term so whatever his plan was may not come to pass.

    Of course there is the possibility that he really didn't rate any of the other options there and genuinely thinks Payne is the best option.

    I think the fact that the changeover from BOD to Payne hasn't drawn any real criticism is because we've been winning. If we'd lost the Autumn tests and had a poor 6 Nations I'm sure things would be different.


  • #7114
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Trimbers was not a bad centre at all actually but was never going to get a sustained run there between injuries and the presence for so long of The Almighty and his side kick John the Baptist beside him.
    Trimble can pass well, and has a good awareness of the play around him. Far better on both points than Earlsie for example.
    I am surprised it hasnt been tried more.

    Payne is a very solid full back, and offers a much better attacking option there than Rob, both counterattacking or as a link man who can straighten the line and pass it on.
    Certainly offers a different flavour, certainly more interesting than Jones, but probably not one Joe has any interest in.

    Bit concerned about Rob's fitness, and nervous about the idea of Zeebs starting a major game at 15, but that does seem to be the plan if necessary. I would prefer to see Paynser there if it had to happen.


  • #7115
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Bit concerned about Rob's fitness, and nervous about the idea of Zeebs starting a major game at 15, but that does seem to be the plan if necessary. I would prefer to see Paynser there if it had to happen.

    I suppose Madigan is an option there too, if necessary. Although a bit like with 10 I'd be fine with Madigan coming on to close out a game at FB but I'm not sure I'd want him starting an important one if Kearney was ruled out. Although he did play most of last season there for Leinster, I think?


  • #7116
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    I wonder if Schmidt sees Payne as a good stopgap, maybe having someone in mind more long term for the position? Problem there is he's not signed on long term so whatever his plan was may not come to pass.

    Of course there is the possibility that he really didn't rate any of the other options there and genuinely thinks Payne is the best option.

    I think the fact that the changeover from BOD to Payne hasn't drawn any real criticism is because we've been winning. If we'd lost the Autumn tests and had a poor 6 Nations I'm sure things would be different.

    I think Payne fits the bill perfectly for Plan Joe at the moment. He fits the criteria of looking for five full backs. Strong tacking, can kick, compete in the air, solid defensively and good reader of the game. Ideally the couple on the wing would have a bit more speed, but that is a luxury that we dont have at the moment and is not a primary requirement. Real pace, quick off loading hands, side step, etc, are attributes that a not really needed for the game we want to play, so not a negative of Payney isnt strong on them.


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  • #7117
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    I suppose Madigan is an option there too, if necessary. Although a bit like with 10 I'd be fine with Madigan coming on to close out a game at FB but I'm not sure I'd want him starting an important one if Kearney was ruled out. Although he did play most of last season there for Leinster, I think?

    I wouldnt trust the Dog either.
    Payne is the man for me if Rob is missing, but Joe and I differ on this point.


  • #7118
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    I wouldnt trust the Dog either.
    Payne is the man for me if Rob is missing, but Joe and I differ on this point.

    Mads will probably be the starting 9 by this point anyway so he can't fill in at FB. Or can he?


  • #7119
    Trabejo
    Site Banned Posts: 65 ✭✭Trabejo


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Of course there is the possibility that he really didn't rate any of the other options there and genuinely thinks Payne is the best option.

    tends to be the case when a player is picked in a position for big games


  • #7120
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    I suppose Madigan is an option there too, if necessary. Although a bit like with 10 I'd be fine with Madigan coming on to close out a game at FB but I'm not sure I'd want him starting an important one if Kearney was ruled out. Although he did play most of last season there for Leinster, I think?

    He didnt. Very rarely and only when badly stuck. Standoff or inside centre predominantly. It only his all round rugby ability had him there, a bit like its getting him the emergency scrummie cover now.


  • #7121
    aimee1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Mads will probably be the starting 9 by this point anyway so he can't fill in at FB. Or can he?

    well the last few years we've opted for a flanker out on the wing so SOB to the left wing and DK to full back?


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  • #7122
    Trabejo
    Site Banned Posts: 65 ✭✭Trabejo


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    He didnt. Very rarely and only when badly stuck. Standoff or inside centre predominantly. It only his all round rugby ability had him there, a bit like its getting him the emergency scrummie cover now.

    This Madigan as a 9 nonsense has to stop. I think it began years ago when he popped a scrummie pass from the base of the scrum in some meaningless Pro 12 game when Reddan was incapacitated and it has spiralled out of control since.

    Madigan is not a 9.


  • #7123
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    He didnt. Very rarely and only when badly stuck. Standoff or inside centre predominantly. It only his all round rugby ability had him there, a bit like its getting him the emergency scrummie cover now.

    Who was playing 15 for Leinster most of last season then? Rob K was out for a good bit, or was he? I'm questioning everything I think I remember now. :eek:


  • #7124
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Trabejo wrote: »
    This Madigan as a 9 nonsense has to stop. I think it began years ago when he popped a scrummie pass from the base of the scrum in some meaningless Pro 12 game when Reddan was incapacitated and it has spiralled out of control since.

    Madigan is not a 9.

    It started when Joe Schmidt asked him last year.


  • #7125
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Who was playing 15 for Leinster most of last season then? Rob K was out for a good bit, or was he? I'm questioning everything I think I remember now. :eek:

    Zane and Rob.


  • #7126
    Trabejo
    Site Banned Posts: 65 ✭✭Trabejo


    rrpc wrote: »
    It started when Joe Schmidt asked him last year.

    It started when I said it started pal. This ridiculous notion of Madigan playing as a 9 has been around for much longer than one year.


  • #7127
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Trabejo wrote: »
    It started when I said it started pal. This ridiculous notion of Madigan playing as a 9 has been around for much longer than one year.

    I'm not your pal and Madigan has never played as a nine for Leinster or Ireland. POM has a better background as a winger.


  • #7128
    Trabejo
    Site Banned Posts: 65 ✭✭Trabejo


    rrpc wrote: »
    I'm not your pal and Madigan has never played as a nine for Leinster or Ireland. POM has a better background as a winger.

    Listen pal, my entire point was that he has never played 9 so the consistent discussion about him being used as a 9 is stupid. As I said before and will say again this all started years ago when Reddan was incapacitated for a few minutes and Madigan was used to pass the ball from the base of the rucks.

    You've actually defended my position, pal.


  • #7129
    Ceadog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭Ceadog


    pal


  • #7130
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,741 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    I'm not your pal, buddy.


  • #7131
    Trabejo
    Site Banned Posts: 65 ✭✭Trabejo


    _Tyrrell_ wrote: »
    I'm not your pal, buddy.

    I'm not your buddy, mate.


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  • #7132
    Tompatrick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 210 ✭✭Tompatrick


    Trabejo wrote: »
    This Madigan as a 9 nonsense has to stop. I think it began years ago when he popped a scrummie pass from the base of the scrum in some meaningless Pro 12 game when Reddan was incapacitated and it has spiralled out of control since.

    Madigan is not a 9.

    He probably does need a run at 9 against the Canadians or Romanians given he is now effective cover for this position after Murray and Reddin.


  • #7133
    Trabejo
    Site Banned Posts: 65 ✭✭Trabejo


    Tompatrick wrote: »
    He probably does need a run at 9 against the Canadians or Romanians given he is now effective cover for this position after Murray and Reddin.

    Where is this coming from, since when is he effective cover? I would say effective cover for Murray and Reddan will be Isaac Boss back in Ireland. I doubt we will see Madigan ever starting 9 or covering 9 on the bench for ireland.

    I can't believe I am actually having this debate. Sean O'Brien is more likely to play 12 again than Madigan is to ever start for Ireland at 9.


  • #7134
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Trabejo wrote: »
    Where is this coming from, since when is he effective cover? I would say effective cover for Murray and Reddan will be Isaac Boss back in Ireland. I doubt we will see Madigan ever starting 9 or covering 9 on the bench for ireland.

    I can't believe I am actually having this debate. Sean O'Brien is more likely to play 12 again than Madigan is to ever start for Ireland at 9.

    Eh you do realise that Boss is not in the RWC cup squad? It's Murray/Reddan/Madigan? Have you just started posting here to post nonsense?


  • #7135
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Trabejo wrote: »
    Where is this coming from, since when is he effective cover? I would say effective cover for Murray and Reddan will be Isaac Boss back in Ireland. I doubt we will see Madigan ever starting 9 or covering 9 on the bench for ireland.

    I can't believe I am actually having this debate. Sean O'Brien is more likely to play 12 again than Madigan is to ever start for Ireland at 9.

    Joe Schmidt, Ireland team head coach, said he is 3rd choice 9. In a press conference. It came from there.

    We were all surprised.

    Edit: Guy


  • #7136
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Trabejo wrote: »
    Listen pal, my entire point was that he has never played 9 so the consistent discussion about him being used as a 9 is stupid. As I said before and will say again this all started years ago when Reddan was incapacitated for a few minutes and Madigan was used to pass the ball from the base of the rucks.

    You've actually defended my position, pal.

    Well pal, I think you've misunderstood me.

    What I'm saying, pal is that officially, pal, it's now a real thing and not just an internet wet dream based on a ten minute cameo 'years ago'.

    So no, pal. I'm not defending your position...


  • #7137
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Hey guy, Joe Schmidt himself said he will cover 9, you should watch the press conference from last Tuesday


  • #7138
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    I'm pretty sure Madigan will cover 9 if we end up in a scenario like the England game where we're out of subs and he's already on the field and there's nobody else there to do it. If Murray or Reddan get seriously injured Boss will get the call. Actually having him at 9 or 21 (?) would be madness.


  • #7139
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure Madigan will cover 9 if we end up in a scenario like the England game where we're out of subs and he's already on the field and there's nobody else there to do it. If Murray or Reddan get seriously injured Boss will get the call. Actually having him at 9 or 21 (?) would be madness.

    I agree, the only way I think we'll see him named at 21 would be if one of our scrum halves goes down after the deadline for calling up Boss, but we still need a plan in case that happens and that appears to be Joe's.


  • #7140
    Trabejo
    Site Banned Posts: 65 ✭✭Trabejo


    If Murray or Reddan get seriously injured Boss will get the call. Actually having him at 9 or 21 (?) would be madness.[/QUOTE]


    That's what I'm saying pal.


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  • #7141
    Trabejo
    Site Banned Posts: 65 ✭✭Trabejo


    If Murray or Reddan get seriously injured Boss will get the call. Actually having him at 9 or 21 (?) would be madness.


    That's what I'm saying pal.


This discussion has been closed.
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