Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

irishbucsfan · 30-08-2015 02:18AM

Stheno wrote: »

That's completely different from what I thought, Welsh lineouts with the exception of the one that was thrown too long were completely dominated by the Welsh, no competing for the ball after it was thrown at all.

We did compete on Welsh lineouts, POM jumping at the front.

We didn't compete on defensive lineouts in our own 22 but that's exactly how we handled them in the 6 Nations with Toner starting as well.

Stheno · 30-08-2015 02:20AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We did compete on Welsh lineouts, POM jumping at the front.

We didn't compete on defensive lineouts in our own 22 but that's exactly how we handled them in the 6 Nations with Toner starting as well.

Ah that makes sense, I was probably thinking of the ones in the 22 as I was sitting there for the first half

Not paying attention enough to the others

Ceadog · 30-08-2015 02:34AM

Jordi Murphy definitely stole a lineout at some stage.

vienne86 · 30-08-2015 07:39AM

Henderson was fabulous yesterday. Certainly his performance gives us food for thought re second row partnerships, but isn't it a great problem to have for Ireland, with POC heading for retirement?

total former · 30-08-2015 08:24AM

total former wrote: »

Gavin Cummiskey reckons "it’s not really a tough call anymore" as to whether Henderson will oust Toner, and in fact Toner will drop out of the 23 altogether.

Thoughts?

To answer my own question, I don't think Toner will lose his starting place. As good as Henderson was yesterday, Toner is in the team for a very different set of reasons and has a very different skillset. Plus, neither Ryan nor Toner are impact subs in the same way that Henderson is so status quo to prevail I think.

bilston · 30-08-2015 08:42AM

Hendy was great yesterday but Toner performs a specific role that is hard to replace, you have to work out whether Henderson's all round ability trumps the extra lineout security Toner brings. I imagine Toner will still get the nod, but it may be one to keep an eye on as the tournament progresses. Post WC the two of them will form a super pairing, as much as POC's leadership will be missed (and that will be huge), I think we can rest easy in the knowledge that we have a ready replacement for him waiting to go.

I still reckon the team that many suspected a few weeks back will be the one that starts the WC...ie

15 Kearney
14 Bowe
13 Payne
12 Henshaw
11 TBA
10 Sexton
9 Murray
1 Healy/McGrath
2 Best
3 Ross
4 Toner
5 O'Connell
6 O'Mahony
7 O'Brien
8 Heaslip

However as the tournament progresses Toner and Bowe will need to be performing as they are probably the two at risk there.

Buer · 30-08-2015 08:52AM

I think people need to look at the specific role Toner occupies. He's more of a target in the line out but he's much more important in defence, making a lot of soak tackles in midfield and has a big influence on our maul.

Henderson is great but offers something very different. He's a carrier and a rucker who plays more like a blindside than a lock.

It all depends on how Schmidt approaches the games but I would think the spell of mauls in our own 22 sealed Toner's place.

I expect we might see Henderson play at 6 next week for a short spell.

smiley_face · 30-08-2015 09:08AM

I like Hendo and Toner on the pitch at the same time, so whether that's Henderson at 6 to accommodate POC or whether he should take POC's place, either option would be fine.
It would be a choice between starting POM or POC, prob POC cause he was so good in the 6 Nations and he's a commanding presence.
I said it a couple of months ago, but I'd like to see a back row of Hendo, Henry and SOB together, great blend of power at 6 and 8 and a good ball poacher at 7.
Our best combination could be Hendo, SOB and Heaslip.
Bench could be D Ryan for Lock and POM for back row.
That would inspire real confidence if I saw that combination line out against the top teams.

phog · 30-08-2015 09:37AM

Are people blaming Henderson for the poor maul defence yesterday?

I just think it was a combination of things and having Toner yesterday might have had the same results.

total former · 30-08-2015 09:45AM

phog wrote: »

Are people blaming Henderson for the poor maul defence yesterday?

No. Maul defence is a strong point of Toner however.

phog · 30-08-2015 09:53AM

total former wrote: »

No. Maul defence is a strong point of Toner however.

But swapping him for Henderson yesterday wasn't going to change much which is what some posters seem to imply/think.

Buer · 30-08-2015 09:54AM

phog wrote: »

Are people blaming Henderson for the poor maul defence yesterday?

I just think it was a combination of things and having Toner yesterday might have had the same results.

Nobody is saying anything like that.

Toner brings a very different skill set to Henderson. If Toner was on the field, we wouldn't have seen the carries that IH provided. However, Toner is excellent in the maul with those huge levers getting in and around players, disrupting their drive. It's one of his specialist areas.

shuffol · 30-08-2015 10:09AM

phog wrote: »

But swapping him for Henderson yesterday wasn't going to change much which is what some posters seem to imply/think.

Yesterday confirmed how important the maul is to our game there and Toner is a huge part of that. I think Henderson is more likely to oust POM than Toner. The one area other than experience where POM has a significant edge over Henderson is as a turnover threat but then Henderson offers a lot defensively at the breakdown also with his counter rucking ability.

Buer · 30-08-2015 10:14AM

shuffol wrote: »

Yesterday confirmed how important the maul is to our game there and Toner is a huge part of that. I think Henderson is more likely to oust POM than Toner. The one area other than experience where POM has a significant edge over Henderson is as a turnover threat but then Henderson offers a lot defensively at the breakdown also with his counter rucking ability.

I can't see that happening but I wouldn't be surprised if Henderson started one of the first two games at 6 just to keep him sharp there. If POM was to get injured, Henderson would possibly be our replacement 6 ahead of Murphy.

POM was quiet but ok yesterday. Needs another game or two to get up to speed but he'll be fine. I can see him making sh*t of Italy with his smarts.

total former · 30-08-2015 10:25AM

Right, before the leaks start coming out, here's my predicted squad.

Healy McGrath Bent Ross White
Best Cronin Strauss
POC Toner Ryan Henderson
SOB POM Heaslip Henry Murphy
Murray Reddan Boss
Sexton Madigan Jackson
Payne Henshaw Fitz Earls
D Kearney Zebo R Kearney Bowe

I think Dave Kearney slammed the door on Trimble yesterday, Trimble probably needed another week, ditto Moore. This assumes Earls and Fitz are fit obviously.

The Rape of Lucretia · 30-08-2015 10:27AM

Buer wrote: »

Nobody is saying anything like that.

Toner brings a very different skill set to Henderson. If Toner was on the field, we wouldn't have seen the carries that IH provided. However, Toner is excellent in the maul with those huge levers getting in and around players, disrupting their drive. It's one of his specialist areas.

The elephant in the room here that has come a little earlier than we expected, is that our strongest second row is Tones and Henders. And Paulie should be dropped and bench for the big games.
Has Joe the balls of Gatty dropping Dricco to do this ?

shuffol · 30-08-2015 10:33AM

Buer wrote: »

I can't see that happening but I wouldn't be surprised if Henderson started one of the first two games at 6 just to keep him sharp there. If POM was to get injured, Henderson would possibly be our replacement 6 ahead of Murphy.

POM was quiet but ok yesterday. Needs another game or two to get up to speed but he'll be fine. I can see him making sh*t of Italy with his smarts.

I wouldn't expect it but I think it's more likely than Toner dropping out. This would be more of a live topic if POC weren't retiring. Drop Toner and he'll be back in post WC, pick Henderson at 6 and he'll be moving to the row post WC. No real point in taking the risk of splitting up settled partnerships that are doing well when you'll have to do it again in 6 months time anyway.

The Rape of Lucretia · 30-08-2015 10:33AM

total former wrote: »

Right, before the leaks start coming out, here's my predicted squad.

Healy McGrath Bent Ross White
Best Cronin Strauss
POC Toner Ryan Henderson
SOB POM Heaslip Henry Murphy
Murray Reddan Boss
Sexton Madigan Jackson
Payne Henshaw Fitz Earls
D Kearney Zebo R Kearney Bowe

I think Dave Kearney slammed the door on Trimble yesterday, Trimble probably needed another week, ditto Moore. This assumes Earls and Fitz are fit obviously.

Yes, I think you may have it. Still unsure on Trimble though. Joe likes him well and unless injury concerns or the lack of recent game time is against him, Joe wpuld like to bring him. The toughest call. Earlsie or Lukey injuries may may the decision for him

smiley_face · 30-08-2015 10:42AM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Yes, I think you may have it. Still unsure on Trimble though. Joe likes him well and unless injury concerns or the lack of recent game time is against him, Joe wpuld like to bring him. The toughest call. Earlsie or Lukey injuries may may the decision for him

It should be Earls and Trimble.

NoelJ · 30-08-2015 10:47AM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Yes, I think you may have it. Still unsure on Trimble though. Joe likes him well and unless injury concerns or the lack of recent game time is against him, Joe wpuld like to bring him. The toughest call. Earlsie or Lukey injuries may may the decision for him

How injured is moore? I think he's class in the last 20 minutes but I don't see him in any of the predicted squads.

bilston · 30-08-2015 11:00AM

total former wrote: »

Right, before the leaks start coming out, here's my predicted squad.

Healy McGrath Bent Ross White
Best Cronin Strauss
POC Toner Ryan Henderson
SOB POM Heaslip Henry Murphy
Murray Reddan Boss
Sexton Madigan Jackson
Payne Henshaw Fitz Earls
D Kearney Zebo R Kearney Bowe

I think Dave Kearney slammed the door on Trimble yesterday, Trimble probably needed another week, ditto Moore. This assumes Earls and Fitz are fit obviously.

I got the impression from Schmidt's quotes last week that Trimble just needed to prove his fitness and he was in. Otherwise I suspect he would have played yesterday. I think Zebo is the one that will miss out to be honest but Earls and Fitzgerald may have been playing for one spot between them. Could be wrong though.

Wang King · 30-08-2015 11:43AM

Heard rumours already

30-08-2015 11:45AM

Earls and Fitz have shown about the same at wing, but Luke was vastly better at centre yesterday than Earls was against Wales C team.

Suspect Zebo is now out, Earls could struggle to be honest if it is between him and Fitz.

.ak · 30-08-2015 11:49AM

awec wrote: »

There is. If he is concussed the RTP protocol states a minimum of 21 days before he can play again (2 weekends).

http://www.irishrugby.ie/downloads/IRFU-Guide-to-Concussion(2).pdf

So if he is found to be concussed you would have to say his World Cup is over, given he can't even train for 14 days.

I'd actually say the opposite. If Joe was picking him he'd be happy to rest him now.

Thanos · 30-08-2015 12:49PM

Wang King wrote: »

Heard rumours already

Ah now here.............
You can't say that and just leave us hanging!!!

Buer · 30-08-2015 12:49PM

Reading into Schmidt's comments yesterday evening, I'd say yesterday didn't make any significant change to how he views Henderson or his place in the pecking order i.e. a really good player beforehand and still one after.

“I think Iain has continued to make progress, but Iain’s been a pretty important part of our side for the last two years and we’d expect that that will continue. He’s a young man who is a good athlete and we’re hoping he’ll continue to make progress in that manner.”

padser · 30-08-2015 01:03PM

When is the squad announcement? Is it live on irish rugby? Can't see any mention of it.....

Buer · 30-08-2015 01:07PM

padser wrote: »

When is the squad announcement? Is it live on irish rugby? Can't see any mention of it.....

Not sure if there'll be an official announcement, per se. such as a press conference reveal. The squad needs to be submitted to the IRB by 5pm tomorrow. It may not be announced publicly until Tuesday morning.

However, the squad will more than likely be decided on today with meetings with those omitted taking place today/tomorrow morning so I suspect we'll have some concrete rumours by the end of the day.

The Lost Sheep · 30-08-2015 01:08PM

padser wrote: »

When is the squad announcement? Is it live on irish rugby? Can't see any mention of it.....

It will be handed to World Rugby tomorrow and is officially announced on Tuesday

aimee1 · 30-08-2015 01:09PM

Buer wrote: »

Not sure if there'll be an official announcement, per se. The squad needs to be submitted to the IRB by 5pm tomorrow. It may not be announced publicly until Tuesday morning.

However, the squad will more than likely be decided on today with meetings with those omitted taking place today/tomorrow morning so I suspect we'll have some concrete rumours by the end of the day.

fairly sure JS said something in his pre match interview yesterday along the lines of "tomorrow is going to be a difficult day"

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

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