Hawker Hunter crash at Shoreham

jasT1981 · 22-08-2015 12:57pm #1

Reports a Hunter has gone down at Shoreham today

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/22/hawker-hunter-plane-crash-shoreham-air-show-reports

The_Wanderer · 22-08-2015 1:10pm

jasT1981 wrote: »

Reports a Hunter has gone down at Shoreham today http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/22/hawker-hunter-plane-crash-shoreham-air-show-reports

How many of these are flying? Was it the one that was at Foynes a few weeks ago?

Lockheed · 22-08-2015 1:12pm

R.I.P to the people who lost their lives
also, Has this Hunter performed at any Irish Airshows at all?

RadioRetro · 22-08-2015 1:23pm

It's Hunter T7 WV372 according to reports. Some reports say the pilot was pulled from the wreckage alive, others that he ejected.

Another aeroplane crashed this afternoon too, this time at a display at Sandown Airport; http://www.islandecho.co.uk/news/plane-crash-at-sandown-airport

DominoDub · 22-08-2015 2:27pm

Video of the Crash ...:eek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvHplYmh2f8

Sterling Archer · 22-08-2015 2:37pm

I didn't see an ejection or shute..
I've also read the pilot was pulled from the wreckage, looked as tho he was at the very bottom of the loop so may not have had a high impact with the ground.

windowspotter · 22-08-2015 2:43pm

Christ I hope no fatalities there but it's definitely a miracle if there isn't, appeared to crash into a line of traffic

Sterling Archer · 22-08-2015 2:51pm

IIRC wasn't there a fatal crash at that airshow a few years ago?

The A27 was the main access road too.

RadioRetro · 22-08-2015 3:01pm

Sussex police reporting a "number of casualties". The aircraft hit some vehicles on the road.

jimbis · 22-08-2015 3:04pm

Sky are saying that several people have been killed

logie101 · 22-08-2015 3:19pm

I am pretty sure that was the Hunter and pilot that was over in Foynes a fews weeks back.

Well known very experienced pilot. Very sad.

Lockheed · 22-08-2015 3:32pm

logie101 wrote: »

I am pretty sure that was the Hunter and pilot that was over in Foynes a fews weeks back.

Well known very experienced pilot. Very sad.

Was it the one that was at Bray?

logie101 · 22-08-2015 3:48pm

Lockheed wrote: »

Was it the one that was at Bray?

Yes.

Tabnabs · 22-08-2015 3:51pm

7 people confirmed dead according to the BBC

_Tombstone_ · 22-08-2015 4:04pm

Shoreham plane crash: Seven dead after Hawker Hunter hits cars

A stall during the loop they say.

_Tombstone_ · 22-08-2015 4:05pm

Shane_ef wrote: »

IIRC wasn't there a fatal crash at that airshow a few years ago?

The A27 was the main access road too.

It is the second incident at the Shoreham Airshow in recent years. In September 2007 James Bond stuntman Brian Brown, 49, died when he crashed a World War Two Hurricane after carrying out an unplanned barrel roll at a re-enactment of the Battle of Britain

.

Negative_G · 22-08-2015 4:09pm

Terrible accident. RIP to the pilot and to those on the ground.

Barring any technical malfunction or GLOC, I would imagine either the pilot failed to meet the gate height or speed at the top of the loop or failed to pull sufficient G during the second part of the maneouvre to recover to the entry height.

No mention of a mayday call in any report I've read.

vulcan57 · 22-08-2015 4:50pm

This was the one that crashed. I took this at Culdrose Air Day just over three weeks ago.

12A61DC5DBC34BE9A6F30B3F78D7F5F8-0000324460-0003791074-00800L-7F97A2D7FBA34539B7ACF9871A45DA75.jpg

A Dub in Glasgo · 22-08-2015 5:52pm

RIP to the poor unfortunates who did not stand a chance

Tiercel Dave · 22-08-2015 5:53pm

Landing at Shannon, Jul '15

Irish Steve · 22-08-2015 7:04pm

Very sad to see this appalling news. RIP to all concerned.

I did my twin training there a long time ago, and the high ground to the north of the airfield can make for challenging conditions on some approaches, and also in some winds, there can be tricky down draughts over the A27, which can make for a few anxious moments if you are not pre warned about them.

The approach to 20 requires a 4.5 degree approach path, and the DH is very high due to coming over 700 Ft high ground at less than three miles from the runway.

The second day of the airshow has been cancelled.

A bsd day for historic aircraft operations.

logie101 · 22-08-2015 7:35pm

So close to making it, probably 10s of feet would have averted the accident.

Aircraft is nose high and looks to have power from the heat signature.

Iwannahurl · 22-08-2015 7:44pm

I have no technical knowledge about these situations. Does this photo suggest to anyone that an ejection might have been attempted, very late?

prunudo · 22-08-2015 7:50pm

Hard to view those last 2 photos, a lot of people in them are about to have their worlds turned upside down

RIP to those that passed and hopefully those that were injured make a full recovery.

Atlantic Dawn · 22-08-2015 7:52pm

RIP to all those involved.

It's happening all to much, I think it's time to have air shows either over the sea or in unpopulated areas, far too much risk people doing a stunt show directly over the general public.

logie101 · 22-08-2015 8:02pm

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I have no technical knowledge about these situations. Does this photo suggest to anyone that an ejection might have been attempted, very late?

No doesn't look like ejection at all. More likely one of the under wing "weapon/fuel" pod.

Negative_G · 22-08-2015 8:12pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

RIP to all those involved.

It's happening all to much, I think it's time to have air shows either over the sea or in unpopulated areas, far too much risk people doing a stunt show directly over the general public.

Without wishing to go off topic too much, I made a comment some weeks ago about some displays that were occurring here in Ireland and how the some pilots blatant disregard for display lines are creating an unnecessary risk to those attending.

Some individuals commented that they would be quite happy to accept the risk of being right at the edge of a display to get 'closer to the action'.

I think this accident serves to highlight just how important display lines are for crowd safety. I'm not familiar with the layout of the airport but I would be surprised if the display line took it directly over the a27, especially considering it was being used heavily by people going to and from the air show.

For the record, I am not suggesting any wrong doing by the pilot in this instance.

Sky news press conference confirming seven people confirmed dead with police saying they may find more bodies at the scene. Pilot is critical in hospital.

Storm 10 · 22-08-2015 8:28pm

Look closely at the picture on the right you can see the canopy is in the open position

Irish Steve · 22-08-2015 8:52pm

The most visible runway at Shoreham is the tarmac runway, 02/20 and if that was in use as the display line, which the Notams would suggest was the case, then the extended flight line would have crossed the A27 just outside of the airfield perimeter, which seems to tie in with the video and pictures that have been released by the media.

The adjacent housing and other property would also make 02/20 the preferred line as well, as one end of the line would have been over the sea, and inland the display line would have been over ground that doesn't have high density development on it.

Shoreham is noise sensitive, so using the other runway axis would have resulted in a lot more overflying of noise sensitive areas.

Looking at the picture in post 22, which was taken just off airfield, the display line being used was along runway 20, based on the orientation of the picture, the shadow location, and the direction of flight, and the road structure, it is only approximately 200 Mtrs from the threshold of runway 20.

Hopefully, as it was an air show, the AAIB will be able to get access to a significant number of pictures and video recordings, which will give them a clearer idea of what happened today, and what caused a relatively simple manoeuvre to go badly wrong in the worst possible way

arubex · 22-08-2015 8:54pm

Negative_G wrote: »

I think this accident serves to highlight just how important display lines are for crowd safety. I'm not familiar with the layout of the airport but I would be surprised if the display line took it directly over the a27, especially considering it was being used heavily by people going to and from the air show.

I'd say it shows quite the opposite. The nannyish concern for 'crowd safety' has moved the risk firmly over the heads of people going about their daily business outside the airfield with no association with the airshow.

When you go bungee-jumping, you pay your money and sign a waiver stating you understand it's a dangerous activity and short of negligence you have no recourse against the organisers.

Why are airshows different? Why are aviation authorities so concerned about how private individuals wish to spend their weekend that they have to interfere? if the aircraft is airworthy and the pilot's display has been approved, that should be the end of it.

At Shoreham the extended display line cuts across the A27 at about a 70 degree angle. At the other end it crosses a railway line.

Thargor · 22-08-2015 9:10pm

Sad to hear, a few weeks ago I was early coming back from Dublin on the DART before the Bray airshow so I hopped out at Kiliney and walked along the shore towards Bray to kill an hour or 2, at the cliffs around Shankhill he came screaming over my head nearly painfully loud and shotover the water south towards Bray, one of the best things Id ever seen, the roar out of that engine was like nothing else.

22-08-2015 9:32pm

Thargor wrote: »

Sad to hear, a few weeks ago I was early coming back from Dublin on the DART before the Bray airshow so I hopped out at Kiliney and walked along the shore towards Bray to kill an hour or 2, at the cliffs around Shankhill he came screaming over my head nearly painfully loud and shotover the water south towards Bray, one of the best things Id ever seen, the roar out of that engine was like nothing else.

Nearly certain it's not the same aircraft.

EchoIndia · 22-08-2015 10:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Nearly certain it's not the same aircraft.

It is the same aircraft as displayed at Bray last month.

Tiercel Dave · 22-08-2015 10:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Nearly certain it's not the same aircraft.

Yep, was the same aircraft.

http://clareherald.com/2015/08/sussex-crash-jet-flew-in-shannon-last-month-18063/

Larbre34 · 22-08-2015 10:16pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nearly certain it's not the same aircraft.

Aye, that much is confirmed.

A terrible summer for leisure aviation in the UK. Though how a display flightline with complex moves in aging aircraft can take place traversing an active road is beyond me.

PinOnTheRight · 22-08-2015 11:55pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

Aye, that much is confirmed.

A terrible summer for leisure aviation in the UK. Though how a display flightline with complex moves in aging aircraft can take place traversing an active road is beyond me.

Airfields tend to be surrounded by active roads.

Negative_G · 22-08-2015 11:58pm

arubex wrote: »

Why are airshows different? Why are aviation authorities so concerned about how private individuals wish to spend their weekend that they have to interfere? if the aircraft is airworthy and the pilot's display has been approved, that should be the end of it.

As you are well aware, many of the maneouvres performed at an airshow involve aircraft operating at or toward the edge of their performance or capabilities. This increases risk immensely over standard aircraft movements.

I would argue that aviation authorities are keen to prevent any loss of life or collateral damage in the event of an incident or accident. Which I would think is a fair assumption.

In all honesty, if, god forbid, a close friend or family member was killed or injured during a display which could be attributed to poor planning or a rogue pilot who deliberately disobeyed safety regulations to appease the crowd, would you be happy to accept it and move on?

Airworthy aircraft or display approval cannot account for error in judgement or technical malfunctions.

23-08-2015 9:13am

Sorry my bad, I thought it was the brightly coloured Hunter that flew at Bray. Apologies.

Anyway it was a BA commercial pilot that was flying yesterday.

Sterling Archer · 23-08-2015 2:06pm

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1a1_1440280355

rebel girl 15 · 23-08-2015 7:43pm

Death toll up to 11 according to a number of sources - I was down at the Bournemouth Air Show yesterday, mentioned it to parents I was at one, phone went dead while I was down there. Cue a load of messages when I got home at 9pm last night after hearing about Shoreham. Red Arrows and Vulcan were amazing!

Irish Steve · 24-08-2015 12:43am

Some very specific videos have now started to be shown in the media, and on line, and clearly something went badly wrong during the loop. The approach to the airfield was made from the North, along the Arun Valley, which cuts through the high ground that is a real factor to the north of the airfield.

From the videos, for some reason, the aircraft appears to have pulled up into the loop before coming into the airfield boundary, and (more significantly) there was a clear change in direction while on the top of the loop, which resulted in a noticeable change of heading while inverted, and the top of the loop seems to have been "vague" in terms of the control.

The descent from the loop was back towards the airfield but offset from the display line, and partly over some of the high ground to the north.

I did my twin training at Shoreham, and a very early warning to me from the very experienced CFI that I was flying with was "to treat the high ground to the North with great respect, as it could generate down draughts and other strong wind disturbances on the base and final sectors of the circuit".

He was right, on a couple of occasions, relatively close to the ground, I had moments where being aware of that warning was the difference between a timely response or a brown trouser moment.

The wind in Shoreham yesterday was Easterly, so there would have been potential for down draughts and tail winds during the descent from the loop, which would not have been helpful to the pull out. That may not be the reason for the accident, the media are now starting to suggest all sorts of possibilities, like a momentary black out at the top of the loop, which is not impossible.

Either way, now that more specific video is coming out, there are for sure some very strange aspects to what has happened at Shoreham, the AAIB are going to have a lot of work to do to work out what's happened.

DOCARCH · 24-08-2015 9:20am

Jeez....looks like death toll could reach 20. Such a tragedy.

homerjay2005 · 24-08-2015 10:37am

Plane must have come to rest on top of a car for them to expect more bodies.

Very very tragic.

Storm 10 · 24-08-2015 11:02am

Whatever people may say this is going to have implications for Air Shows, it could be a major problem for Bray given that the Town is right on the seafront with a lot of housing and hotels close by, in Salthill it was not too bad as you had two hotels and no densely populated housing on the sea front and of course no Bray Head, it will also impact on inland air shows that are close to built up areas and motorways. There is going to be a knee jerk reaction to this that could be over the top in trying to protect people etc.

PukkaStukka · 24-08-2015 11:03am

Irish Steve wrote: »

Some very specific videos have now started to be shown in the media, and on line, and clearly something went badly wrong during the loop. The approach to the airfield was made from the North, along the Arun Valley, which cuts through the high ground that is a real factor to the north of the airfield.

From the videos, for some reason, the aircraft appears to have pulled up into the loop before coming into the airfield boundary, and (more significantly) there was a clear change in direction while on the top of the loop, which resulted in a noticeable change of heading while inverted, and the top of the loop seems to have been "vague" in terms of the control.

The descent from the loop was back towards the airfield but offset from the display line, and partly over some of the high ground to the north.

I did my twin training at Shoreham, and a very early warning to me from the very experienced CFI that I was flying with was "to treat the high ground to the North with great respect, as it could generate down draughts and other strong wind disturbances on the base and final sectors of the circuit".

He was right, on a couple of occasions, relatively close to the ground, I had moments where being aware of that warning was the difference between a timely response or a brown trouser moment.

The wind in Shoreham yesterday was Easterly, so there would have been potential for down draughts and tail winds during the descent from the loop, which would not have been helpful to the pull out. That may not be the reason for the accident, the media are now starting to suggest all sorts of possibilities, like a momentary black out at the top of the loop, which is not impossible.

Either way, now that more specific video is coming out, there are for sure some very strange aspects to what has happened at Shoreham, the AAIB are going to have a lot of work to do to work out what's happened.

A still photo shown on Sky News yesterday moments before impact shows the aircraft almost level around ~ 50ft above the ground with what looks like fluid or vapour exiting from under the right wing.

Irrespective of the cause, it's a horrible black day for all involved.

EDIT: Found the photo online, it looks like fluid is falling from the pod on the right wing

PAY-A-Hawker-Hunter-jet-has-crashed-at-the-Shoreham-air-show-in-West-Sussex.jpg

PAY-A-Hawker-Hunter-jet-has-crashed-at-the-Shoreham-air-show-in-West-Sussex.jpg

Storm 10 · 24-08-2015 11:14am

Looking at that photo you would think he would have been able to regain control and climb away from the road as he has a slight nose up look.

homerjay2005 · 24-08-2015 11:46am

Storm 10 wrote: »

Whatever people may say this is going to have implications for Air Shows, it could be a major problem for Bray given that the Town is right on the seafront with a lot of housing and hotels close by, in Salthill it was not too bad as you had two hotels and no densely populated housing on the sea front and of course no Bray Head, it will also impact on inland air shows that are close to built up areas and motorways. There is going to be a knee jerk reaction to this that could be over the top in trying to protect people etc.

would think Bray above anybody else would be the safest around considering everything takes place over water.

EchoIndia · 24-08-2015 12:26pm

Storm 10 wrote: »

Looking at that photo you would think he would have been able to regain control and climb away from the road as he has a slight nose up look.

But if you watch the videos you will see that the aircraft was coming downwards at a rapid rate also. It was too low at that point to overcome that and establish a positive rate of climb.

vulcan57 · 24-08-2015 2:12pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

RIP to all those involved.

It's happening all to much, I think it's time to have air shows either over the sea or in unpopulated areas, far too much risk people doing a stunt show directly over the general public.

If you think that the last member of the public to be killed at a UK air show was in 1952, and that's according to the British Air Display Association, then it is not happening all too much. Granted there have been accidents and there will continue to be, but these pilots are skilled aviators and in the most part air shows are safe for the public. Putting them out over the sea or in un-populated areas isn't going to stop accidents or increase the safety to the public. I hasten to add that the unfortunate incident at Shoreham was tragic and I am not for one minute trying take away from the seriousness of this particular incident.

Aerohead · 24-08-2015 2:30pm

Its started

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=14&pagetype=65&appid=7&mode=detail&nid=2479

Larbre34 · 24-08-2015 2:39pm

Aerohead wrote: »

Its started

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34044383

Hard not to expect this reaction to such a high level of loss of life.

After everything has been thrashed out in the aftermath, maybe sense will prevail, i.e. to restrict such displays to the confines of large air bases, and not relatively small airfields like Shoreham, or indeed off-shore displays like Bray.

The vintage nature of the aircraft isn't the key point here. We don't know what failed yet, but the Red Arrows Hawks could fail, or collide and you would end up with a similar aftermath. Is anyone in aviation going to restrict the operation in the UK of the Red Arrows? Because by this logic, they should.

Hawker Hunter crash at Shoreham

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