Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

sydthebeat · 22-08-2015 01:29AM

lukey967 wrote: »

What are people's opinions on D'Arcy?Will/Won't he be in the 31 man squad?
Do you bring him for his experience?
Would Cave (or someone who wasn't included in the original training squad) a better option?

Personally I think D'Arcy is a luxury Ireland can't afford as Cave, IMO, at this time is Offering more. I know he's been a great servant to Rugby in Ireland but does that justify bringing him??

Interested to hear other people's views..

No.
I don't think Gordon is anywhere near the w world cup squad to be honest.

Cave is a player who just hasn't been able to step up to international level despite shining at club level.

bilston · 22-08-2015 07:20AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

No.
I don't think Gordon is anywhere near the w world cup squad to be honest.

Cave is a player who just hasn't been able to step up to international level despite shining at club level.

Cave won't travel but he was able to step up perfectly well against Wales two weeks ago.

sydthebeat · 22-08-2015 08:00AM

bilston wrote: »

Cave won't travel but he was able to step up perfectly well against Wales two weeks ago.

Well seeing as we are traveling without what you'd call a recognised out and out 12 (assuming darcy doesn't make it) is a real flashing lights indication that he hasn't stepped up significantly at international level.
Nothing against the guy, but wolfhounds is probably the level where he hits his ceiling.

bilston · 22-08-2015 08:29AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

Well seeing as we are traveling without what you'd call a recognised out and out 12 (assuming darcy doesn't make it) is a real flashing lights indication that he hasn't stepped up significantly at international level.
Nothing against the guy, but wolfhounds is probably the level where he hits his ceiling.

Well I don't really believe in this ceiling concept to be honest, players defy expectations all the time, but nevertheless if we don't bring another out and out centre it will be more down to the versatility of others than anything else IMO.

vienne86 · 22-08-2015 08:45AM

lukey967 wrote: »

What are people's opinions on D'Arcy?Will/Won't he be in the 31 man squad?
Do you bring him for his experience?
Would Cave (or someone who wasn't included in the original training squad) a better option?

Personally I think D'Arcy is a luxury Ireland can't afford as Cave, IMO, at this time is Offering more. I know he's been a great servant to Rugby in Ireland but does that justify bringing him??

Interested to hear other people's views..

I actually wish that Gordon had just retired, because after seeing him v Scotland, he hasn't got the legs anymore. It is a sad end to his career, but I hope he gets a decent send off in the RDS.

irishbucsfan · 22-08-2015 08:52AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

Well seeing as we are traveling without what you'd call a recognised out and out 12 (assuming darcy doesn't make it) is a real flashing lights indication that he hasn't stepped up significantly at international level.
Nothing against the guy, but wolfhounds is probably the level where he hits his ceiling.

I disagree. The way he played against Wales I reckon he could easily be a very good player for us in the event of an injury to Henshaw.

Maybe he had a ceiling at 13, maybe he was misused. I see no evidence that ceiling exists at 12 however.

I think the reality of the situation is that Olding or McCloskey will establish themselves at 12 for Ulster and that will be the end of his chances however I'd be comfortable with the idea of him being our starting 12 going into a championship.

connachta · 22-08-2015 10:01AM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Bad luck on Marmion then. 5 tries, makes two more, 23 tackles, totally bosses the game, and a goal kicking percentage better than Jackson's. What has the guy got to do to cement that first call up reserve spot ?

All the stats are now in Marmion's favour, he's on fire, right on time for RWC. Easterby has to do his job, convince Joe to make him play against Wales. That's all I ask for. Marmion will (brilliantly) do the rest

Podge_irl · 22-08-2015 10:09AM

connachta wrote: »

All the stats are now in Marmion's favour, he's on fire, right on time for RWC. Easterby has to do his job, convince Joe to make him play against Wales. That's all I ask for. Marmion will (brilliantly) do the rest

It was a preseason provincial game. In the grand order of things it means very, very little.

total former · 22-08-2015 10:15AM

Podge_irl wrote: »

It was a preseason provincial game. In the grand order of things it means very, very little.

Yeah it's a hard one to call, how much weight the coaches will put on them.

You could look at the people who were allowed to play - Cave, Tuohy, Gilroy, Conan, Marmion - and make your own judgement on it.

Did White come on?

connachta · 22-08-2015 10:16AM

Podge_irl wrote: »

It was a preseason provincial game. In the grand order of things it means very, very little.

FFS a SH who played a great game played it whatever the opposition was, he's not a prop. + the Munster pack wasn't the weakest ever seen.
He is up to it right now, that's all matters. I didin't say that allows him to be in the plane, I've talked about the Welsh game. What on earth has he got to do, just to have his chance:(

22-08-2015 10:16AM

connachta wrote: »

All the stats are now in Marmion's favour, he's on fire, right on time for RWC. Easterby has to do his job, convince Joe to make him play against Wales. That's all I ask for. Marmion will (brilliantly) do the rest

Jaysus get a room

connachta · 22-08-2015 10:19AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Jaysus get a room

I'm waiting for the dreadlocks, and I will:pac:

b.gud · 22-08-2015 10:22AM

total former wrote: »

Did White come on?

Think he played the 2nd half. Wasn't at the game so can't say how he played

bilston · 22-08-2015 10:39AM

I can't speak for the Munster Connacht game but there were quite a few Academy players involved in Belfast last night. Turning it on against that calibre of opposition is great and all and certainly can't do any harm but like everything last night's performances will be weighted appropriately.

Still it sounds like Marmion was impressive which ia good to hear.

jacothelad · 22-08-2015 10:56AM

bilston wrote: »

I can't speak for the Munster Connacht game but there were quite a few Academy players involved in Belfast last night. Turning it on against that calibre of opposition is great and all and certainly can't do any harm but like everything last night's performances will be weighted appropriately.

Still it sounds like Marmion was impressive which ia good to hear.

Yes, there is really nothing of consequence to learn from such games with regard to the RWC. Both sides used 33 players I think including some not even good enough to make the Ulster Academy. 'Why' I would ask.

If a guy plays well it's 'against' scratch opposition. If a player has been sent back and doesn't set the world on fire it's confirmation of his crapitude. At least Marmion still has a chance I suspect and irrespective of Boss's experience, I'd take Marmion. Isaac simply doesn't have the sharpness anymore. Too slow to breakdowns and too slow to act and his pass seems to move through treacle nowadays. His box kicking is shiite. He was always a favourite player of mine since his days at Ravenhill but he is no longer that player on the pitch. I doubt if he can do anything that Marmion can't and I'm pretty sure Marmion can do things of which Boss is now simply incapable.

irishbucsfan · 22-08-2015 10:57AM

The only game time Marmion would be getting at the World Cup would be against the likes of Canada and Romania anyway.

Lets get him on the field against Wales and see how he goes, if he is decent in any way then I'd be happy to see him taken. It's the kicking and decision making that'll be crucial for Joe though.

connachta · 22-08-2015 11:05AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The only game time Marmion would be getting at the World Cup would be against the likes of Canada and Romania anyway.

And against anyone else if there's just one injury

Lets get him on the field against Wales and see how he goes, if he is decent in any way then I'd be happy to see him taken. It's the kicking and decision making that'll be crucial for Joe though.

irishbucsfan · 22-08-2015 11:16AM

connachta wrote: »

Marmion is not going to be getting on the pitch for long in a game of any importance at the world cup, even in a case where someone is injured. Unless we have two injuries in which case we're in big trouble.

The Rape of Lucretia · 22-08-2015 11:39AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Marmion is not going to be getting on the pitch for long in a game of any importance at the world cup, even in a case where someone is injured. Unless we have two injuries in which case we're in big trouble.

Yes. While he might have have his supporters over Boss and they might think Joe is making a mistake, its clear that Boss is being given game time with the squad and is the 3rd scrum half, while Marmion has been cut, but is being given some provincial game time to keep him warm as a backup.
So it would take two injuries for Marmion to be both called up, and sit on a bench. And would be unlikely to be given a run if it could be avoided at all, unless Ireland were really cruising, and Boss had to be given a rest for a bigger subsequent game.

But I dont think we would necessarily be in big trouble. Sure, he is the least preferred option of the main three, but Boss starting a big game would not be a lost cause. I would be more worried in fact he he was a third injury in such a game and Marmion really did have to come on.

Buer · 22-08-2015 11:45AM

I hope Marmion gets more than 20 minutes against Wales and a fair shake to claim the spot; 10 minutes in the opening game when it was completely dead and buried is pretty scant.

With that said, if the coaches have their minds made up, they shouldn't waste any game time on him as a token gesture this close to the RWC.

All indications to this point suggest that the decision is half made already. The fact that the only bloke from the coaching team who went to Thomond was the one fella who has no input into his position when the three coaches (head coach, skills/kicking coach and defence and former attack coach) who would have input into his role were elsewhere.

irishbucsfan · 22-08-2015 11:51AM

Buer wrote: »

I hope Marmion gets more than 20 minutes against Wales and a fair shake to claim the spot; 10 minutes in the opening game when it was completely dead and buried is pretty scant.

With that said, if the coaches have their minds made up, they shouldn't waste any game time on him as a token gesture this close to the RWC.

All indications to this point suggest that the decision is half made already. The fact that the only bloke from the coaching team who went to Thomond was the one fella who has no input into his position when the three coaches (head coach, skills/kicking coach and defence and former attack coach) who would have input into his role were elsewhere.

They were all in Belfast therefore Luke McGrath must be the frontrunner for that 3rd spot! Or maybe it's Paul Marshall...

The Rape of Lucretia · 22-08-2015 11:52AM

Buer wrote: »

I hope Marmion gets more than 20 minutes against Wales and a fair shake to claim the spot; 10 minutes in the opening game when it was completely dead and buried is pretty scant.

With that said, if the coaches have their minds made up, they shouldn't waste any game time on him as a token gesture this close to the RWC.

How could you make any decision one way or the other on 20 minutes ?

Those playing a full game, or majority of, were possibly, and only possibly, being looked at. Many were just making up a team. And those just playing a few minutes were just being given a gesture or afterthought to keep them in the mix, not to decide whether they travel or not based on such a short stint.
It would be madness to base any squad selection on those little cameos.

That they are not wasting time on him this close to the cup is the only logical explanation. If he gets 20 minutes, it isnt to judge him, but to give him a little real game time with the squad players n case he is called up.

The Rape of Lucretia · 22-08-2015 11:53AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They were all in Belfast therefore Luke McGrath must be the frontrunner for that 3rd spot! Or maybe it's Paul Marshall...

Shorter drive ?

Buer · 22-08-2015 11:56AM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Shorter drive ?

Not even. It's about as quick to Limerick as it is to Belfast now.

Can understand Kiss being at Ulster but thought they'd send Murphy down south.

irishbucsfan · 22-08-2015 11:57AM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

How could you make any decision one way or the other on 20 minutes ?

Those playing a full game, or majority of, were possibly, and only possibly, being looked at. Many were just making up a team. And those just playing a few minutes were just being given a gesture or afterthought to keep them in the mix, not to decide whether they travel or not based on such a short stint.
It would be madness to base any squad selection on those little cameos.

That they are not wasting time on him this close to the cup is the only logical explanation. If he gets 20 minutes, it isnt to judge him, but to give him a little real game time with the squad players n case he is called up.

The games are much less important in determining the make up of the squad than you seem to be suggesting.

Dave Kearney has barely been on the field. By your logic he hasn't a chance, but he's being suggested by the media as have a very good change to make the squad. Why? Because the squad is going to be selected primarily based on what they've been doing at Carton House, not what they've been doing in mickey mouse warm up games.

The Rape of Lucretia · 22-08-2015 11:58AM

Buer wrote: »

Not even. It's about as quick to Limerick as it is to Belfast now.

Can understand Kiss being at Ulster but thought they'd send Murphy down south.

What would there have been for him to see ?

connachta · 22-08-2015 11:58AM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Yes. While he might have have his supporters over Boss and they might think Joe is making a mistake, its clear that Boss is being given game time with the squad and is the 3rd scrum half, while Marmion has been cut, but is being given some provincial game time to keep him warm as a backup.
So it would take two injuries for Marmion to be both called up, and sit on a bench. And would be unlikely to be given a run if it could be avoided at all, unless Ireland were really cruising, and Boss had to be given a rest for a bigger subsequent game.

But I dont think we would necessarily be in big trouble. Sure, he is the least preferred option of the main three, but Boss starting a big game would not be a lost cause. I would be more worried in fact he he was a third injury in such a game and Marmion really did have to come on.

:rolleyes: Wait and see, in Joe I keep faith to proove you badly wrong

connachta · 22-08-2015 12:01PM

Buer wrote: »

I hope Marmion gets more than 20 minutes against Wales and a fair shake to claim the spot; 10 minutes in the opening game when it was completely dead and buried is pretty scant.

With that said, if the coaches have their minds made up, they shouldn't waste any game time on him as a token gesture this close to the RWC.

All indications to this point suggest that the decision is half made already. The fact that the only bloke from the coaching team who went to Thomond was the one fella who has no input into his position when the three coaches (head coach, skills/kicking coach and defence and former attack coach) who would have input into his role were elsewhere.

Easterby is able to recognize a good SH job, I think. But yes at 1st place it was annouced Joe would have gone to Limerick

The Rape of Lucretia · 22-08-2015 12:05PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The games are much less important in determining the make up of the squad than you seem to be suggesting.

Dave Kearney has barely been on the field. By your logic he hasn't a chance, but he's being suggested by the media as have a very good change to make the squad. Why? Because the squad is going to be selected primarily based on what they've been doing at Carton House, not what they've been doing in mickey mouse warm up games.

I didnt make my point well.
I agree with you, and would go further: I dont see that they have any importance in determining the make up of the squad at all. Nobody in them is playing for places.
They are extensions of the Carton house training sessions, and as such, for marginal players, show who is being given some time to take the training to a slightly higher level and who is not.
Those who arent, either dont need it, or arent in the 31 already. By no flight of fancy could you consider Marmion a nailed on squad of 31. So since rather than be given more time in either of the first two internationals and experience, he is being released to play mickey mouse games. Clearly he is already in the dispensed with category.

connachta · 22-08-2015 12:05PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

That they are not wasting time on him this close to the cup is the only logical explanation. If he gets 20 minutes, it isnt to judge him, but to give him a little real game time with the squad players n case he is called up.

A poor hour of Boss is enough for you. Highly logical

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

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