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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

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    #5222
    cavemeister
    Registered Users Posts: 593 ✭✭✭cavemeister


    I see that A.J McGinty (formerly of Blackrock college) is now a starting No. 10 for USA Eagles and has been described as a Player to Watch in the RWC.

    Went to America on a J1 and never came back.


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    #5223
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    total former wrote: »
    McFadden started the Rabo final a week earlier so was not considered for the first test. McGrath and Murphy didn't, so they were picked.

    But that's not really the point.

    Well then, why not Gilroy? He played his last game of the season 3 weeks before that. And Fergus McFadden was a starter for the pro12 final and he was on the bench for the first test. (he came on at the 56th minute).


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    #5224
    connachta
    Registered Users Posts: 7,965 ✭✭✭connachta


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Not to read too much into it but it looks from that like Marmion might be ahead of Murray at this stage...?

    It was just a piece of information, not a provocation. (of course he is:D)


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    #5225
    Awesomeness
    Registered Users Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭Awesomeness


    Werent zebo fitz and earls all fit towards end if 6 nations and jones was still prefered on bench. I remember each of them beight 24th man.at some stage


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    #5226
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    MattD wrote: »
    I think that there's only really 2 places in the squad up for grabs on merit and its SH and Back 3 Cover.


    SH Cover: Boss/Marmion

    The merits of Joe's decision might be debatable, but its clear Boss is the man travelling now, so this one is done and dusted.
    If Marmion were a possibility, there would be no releasing of him and he would have got more game time in the warm ups - every minute with the squad would be the priority for someone who has fewer caps and far less squad time than the other three.
    It probably stands to reason though. 3rd scrum half is really only a desparation measure that you hope doesnt shoot the team in its collective foot. The more expereinced man is clearly a better bet in that scenario, guaranteeing Boss his place.


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    #5227
    smiley_face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 469 ✭✭smiley_face


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    The merits of Joe's decision might be debatable, but its clear Boss is the man travelling now, so this one is done and dusted.
    If Marmion were a possibility, there would be no releasing of him and he would have got more game time in the warm ups - every minute with the squad would be the priority for someone who has fewer caps and far less squad time than the other three.
    It probably stands to reason though. 3rd scrum half is really only a desparation measure that you hope doesnt shoot the team in its collective foot. The more expereinced man is clearly a better bet in that scenario, guaranteeing Boss his place.

    What's this certainty base on?
    Most people thought Boss had a poor performance last week, and Joe went out of his way to say he's looking at all options, including watching the Interpro matches, and won't decide anything til after the Wales match.
    Bit presumptive to say the least...


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    #5228
    connachta
    Registered Users Posts: 7,965 ✭✭✭connachta


    smiley_face wrote: »
    What's this certainty base on?
    Most people thought Boss had a poor performance last week, and Joe went out of his way to say he's looking at all options, including watching the Interpro matches, and won't decide anything til after the Wales match.
    Bit presumptive to say the least...

    Happy you're here smiley_face... Once more, I wish Marmion will be picked not only for him and Ireland, but just to appreciate the reaction (or discretion) of all those who were so full of certainty


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    #5229
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    smiley_face wrote: »
    What's this certainty base on?
    Most people thought Boss had a poor performance last week, and Joe went out of his way to say he's looking at all options, including watching the Interpro matches, and won't decide anything til after the Wales match.
    Bit presumptive to say the least...

    Joe is not going to say he's made up his mind and is no longer bothered looking at options now is he? I want to see Marmion get a run out but the simple fact is he's clearly, by any and every metric we have available to us, behind Boss. Now can we please, please move the feck on!?


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    #5230
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Yeah.... Word is Luke Marshall is actually next in line after Murray and Reddan anyway.


    :pac:


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    #5231
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Joe is not going to say he's made up his mind and is no longer bothered looking at options now is he? I want to see Marmion get a run out but the simple fact is he's clearly, by any and every metric we have available to us, behind Boss. Now can we please, please move the feck on!?

    Ho Ho. . I can't wait to see the egg on your beard when Joe picks Marmion.


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    #5232
    connachta
    Registered Users Posts: 7,965 ✭✭✭connachta


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Joe is not going to say he's made up his mind and is no longer bothered looking at options now is he? I want to see Marmion get a run out but the simple fact is he's clearly, by any and every metric we have available to us, behind Boss. Now can we please, please move the feck on!?

    We can't. And yes Joe could have said he's made up his mind. St Andre did exactly that, after England. He said there are only 1-2 spots in contention. Joe didn't say that, there are good reasons for that (injury recovering etc), and we have the right to expect Marmion/Boss is one of these reasons


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    #5233
    connachta
    Registered Users Posts: 7,965 ✭✭✭connachta


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ho Ho. . I can't wait to see the egg on your beard when Joe picks Marmion.

    Yeah that's what I say just above:P


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    #5234
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    connachta wrote: »
    We can't. And yes Joe could have said he's madeupo his mind. St Andre did exactly that, after England. He said there are only 1-2 spots in contention. Joe didn't say that, there are good reasons for that (injury recovering etc), and we have the right to expect Marmion/Boss is one of these reasons

    I think that might just be somewhere St Andre should be learning from Joe if anything.


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    #5235
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Joe is not going to say he's made up his mind and is no longer bothered looking at options now is he? I want to see Marmion get a run out but the simple fact is he's clearly, by any and every metric we have available to us, behind Boss. Now can we please, please move the feck on!?

    In fact, Joe claims that not only has he not decided which SH he's bringing, he hasn't even decided how many SHs he's bringing.

    His public utterances might not always be 100% reliable...


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    #5236
    connachta
    Registered Users Posts: 7,965 ✭✭✭connachta


    total former wrote: »
    In fact, Joe claims that not only has he not decided which SH he's bringing, he hasn't even decided how many SHs he's bringing.

    His public utterances might not always be 100% reliable...

    After all why not picking only 2 SHs and 6 props instead of 5..


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    #5237
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    connachta wrote: »
    After all why not picking only 2 SHs and 6 props instead of 5..

    Because with 2 scrum halves if one gets injured the day before a game we would have no bench cover, there's a minimum period to make squad callups (think its 48 hours).

    3 SHs is pretty much a certainty, but the 3rd SH is unlikely to matter.


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    #5238
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    total former wrote: »
    In fact, Joe claims that not only has he not decided which SH he's bringing, he hasn't even decided how many SHs he's bringing.

    His public utterances might not always be 100% reliable...

    They are 100% reliable to be aimed at optimising his players' preparation for the world cup, while deflecting press attention away from anything of substance.
    Letting them write as if the squad was not already a done deal in his mind does this. As well as ensuring a focused squad, where those who are already out, do keep a sense of focus and motivation for the training in case they are needed call-ups, even though they are really on a hiding to nothing.

    These games are practice and fitness programme games for the selected squad - not trials, in the sense of their being any competition for places. Others playing are necessary for that greater plan, even though they are not playing for a place.

    The opposition are enhanced tacklebags if you will. Some of the players lining out are just filling out these team sessions the way you see Joe himself finish out backs warm ups on the wing. Other players just arent even necessary for that, and so, astute guy that he is, being keen to give even his callups a bit of match time even when he cant do that himself, releases them to their provinces.


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    #5239
    connachta
    Registered Users Posts: 7,965 ✭✭✭connachta


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Because with 2 scrum halves if one gets injured the day before a game we would have no bench cover, there's a minimum period to make squad callups (think its 48 hours).

    3 SHs is pretty much a certainty, but the 3rd SH is unlikely to matter.

    Yes I knew that, but for the slim chance of getting injured just before the game, it could be worth it to take the risk. If the worst happens, Madigan could play 5 or 10 minutes as cover...


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    #5240
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    connachta wrote: »
    Yes I knew that, but for the slim chance of getting injured just before the game, it could be worth it to take the risk. If the worst happens, Madigan could play 5 or 10 minutes as cover...

    Slim chance? Murray's already had a few dodgy knee injuries, Reddan is getting on and could break down... I'd say the chance is high enough. Imagine if we went into a big game with Madigan as backup scrummie and Murray takes a knock in the first few minutes... Tournament over. For what? Bringing an extra prop?


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    #5241
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    .ak wrote: »
    Slim chance? Murray's already had a few dodgy knee injuries, Reddan is getting on and could break down... I'd say the chance is high enough. Imagine if we went into a big game with Madigan as backup scrummie and Murray takes a knock in the first few minutes... Tournament over. For what? Bringing an extra prop?

    I think what he was trying to say is that Madigan is now ahead of Marmion.


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    #5242
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    Madigan is too busy providing cover at 10, 12, 15, 19 and as bagman in case anything happens to Rala. Touch wood.


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    #5243
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    connachta wrote: »
    We can't.

    Everything that can be said on this has. A number of times. You don't have to move on but you also don't have to near monopolise threads on the topic either. It'd be really nice to be able to read a thread on Ireland right now that doesn't have pages and pages on Marmion vs Boss. If there's something new to add then fine. Otherwise this is just a circular discussion with the same posts again and again.


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    #5244
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,074 ✭✭✭✭phog


    .ak wrote: »
    Slim chance? Murray's already had a few dodgy knee injuries, Reddan is getting on and could break down... I'd say the chance is high enough. Imagine if we went into a big game with Madigan as backup scrummie and Murray takes a knock in the first few minutes... Tournament over. For what? Bringing an extra prop?

    I can't see Boss rescuing us in that scenario anyway.


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    #5245
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    phog wrote: »
    I can't see Boss rescuing us in that scenario anyway.

    I'd take boss over madigan any day of the week. At least there'd be some sort of direction there.


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    #5246
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,074 ✭✭✭✭phog


    .ak wrote: »
    I'd take boss over madigan any day of the week. At least there'd be some sort of direction there.

    Ok, we die a slow death but it's the same outcome.


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    #5247
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    .ak wrote: »
    I'd take boss over madigan any day of the week. At least there'd be some sort of direction there.

    Is backwards a direction?


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    #5248
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 5,972 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    They are 100% reliable to be aimed at optimising his players' preparation for the world cup, while deflecting press attention away from anything of substance.
    Letting them write as if the squad was not already a done deal in his mind does this. As well as ensuring a focused squad, where those who are already out, do keep a sense of focus and motivation for the training in case they are needed call-ups, even though they are really on a hiding to nothing.

    These games are practice and fitness programme games for the selected squad - not trials, in the sense of their being any competition for places. Others playing are necessary for that greater plan, even though they are not playing for a place.

    The opposition are enhanced tacklebags if you will. Some of the players lining out are just filling out these team sessions the way you see Joe himself finish out backs warm ups on the wing. Other players just arent even necessary for that, and so, astute guy that he is, being keen to give even his callups a bit of match time even when he cant do that himself, releases them to their provinces.

    This. Nailed it.


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    #5249
    connachta
    Registered Users Posts: 7,965 ✭✭✭connachta


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I think what he was trying to say is that Madigan is now ahead of Marmion.

    ahead of Boss:)


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    #5250
    connachta
    Registered Users Posts: 7,965 ✭✭✭connachta


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Everything that can be said on this has. A number of times. You don't have to move on but you also don't have to near monopolise threads on the topic either. It'd be really nice to be able to read a thread on Ireland right now that doesn't have pages and pages on Marmion vs Boss. If there's something new to add then fine. Otherwise this is just a circular discussion with the same posts again and again.

    The debate was "on" because of Boss "at best average" performance. But I agree on one point : this debate is minor until Murray/Reddan gets injured, and once one of them will be (touch wood that doesn't happen), Marmion or Boss would be called in the squad anyway, in addition to the other one.
    So, no, the question isn't over but it's reasonable to put it on standy until that potential moment


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    #5251
    baaba maal
    Registered Users Posts: 772 ✭✭✭baaba maal


    Jaysus, every time I check this thread there is another angle on why Marmion is/isn't/should/shouldn't be in the frame- would you please starting a thread on Marmion v Boss and let everyone else discuss, I don't know- Ireland Team Talk, gossip and rumours?


This discussion has been closed.
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