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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

RoundBox11

Pairing Luke Marshall with Cave in the centre and Payne at fullback could be really good for the wolfhounds backline. They should know each other inside out. Then Gilroy could be on one wing.

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cavemeister

I see that A.J McGinty (formerly of Blackrock college) is now a starting No. 10 for USA Eagles and has been described as a Player to Watch in the RWC.

Went to America on a J1 and never came back.

jm08

total former wrote: »

McFadden started the Rabo final a week earlier so was not considered for the first test. McGrath and Murphy didn't, so they were picked.

But that's not really the point.

Well then, why not Gilroy? He played his last game of the season 3 weeks before that. And Fergus McFadden was a starter for the pro12 final and he was on the bench for the first test. (he came on at the 56th minute).

connachta

Deleted User wrote: »

Not to read too much into it but it looks from that like Marmion might be ahead of Murray at this stage...?

It was just a piece of information, not a provocation. (of course he is:D)

Awesomeness

Werent zebo fitz and earls all fit towards end if 6 nations and jones was still prefered on bench. I remember each of them beight 24th man.at some stage

The Rape of Lucretia

MattD wrote: »

I think that there's only really 2 places in the squad up for grabs on merit and its SH and Back 3 Cover.

SH Cover: Boss/Marmion

The merits of Joe's decision might be debatable, but its clear Boss is the man travelling now, so this one is done and dusted.
If Marmion were a possibility, there would be no releasing of him and he would have got more game time in the warm ups - every minute with the squad would be the priority for someone who has fewer caps and far less squad time than the other three.
It probably stands to reason though. 3rd scrum half is really only a desparation measure that you hope doesnt shoot the team in its collective foot. The more expereinced man is clearly a better bet in that scenario, guaranteeing Boss his place.

smiley_face

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The merits of Joe's decision might be debatable, but its clear Boss is the man travelling now, so this one is done and dusted.
If Marmion were a possibility, there would be no releasing of him and he would have got more game time in the warm ups - every minute with the squad would be the priority for someone who has fewer caps and far less squad time than the other three.
It probably stands to reason though. 3rd scrum half is really only a desparation measure that you hope doesnt shoot the team in its collective foot. The more expereinced man is clearly a better bet in that scenario, guaranteeing Boss his place.

What's this certainty base on?
Most people thought Boss had a poor performance last week, and Joe went out of his way to say he's looking at all options, including watching the Interpro matches, and won't decide anything til after the Wales match.
Bit presumptive to say the least...

connachta

smiley_face wrote: »

What's this certainty base on?
Most people thought Boss had a poor performance last week, and Joe went out of his way to say he's looking at all options, including watching the Interpro matches, and won't decide anything til after the Wales match.
Bit presumptive to say the least...

Happy you're here smiley_face... Once more, I wish Marmion will be picked not only for him and Ireland, but just to appreciate the reaction (or discretion) of all those who were so full of certainty

molloyjh

smiley_face wrote: »

What's this certainty base on?
Most people thought Boss had a poor performance last week, and Joe went out of his way to say he's looking at all options, including watching the Interpro matches, and won't decide anything til after the Wales match.
Bit presumptive to say the least...

Joe is not going to say he's made up his mind and is no longer bothered looking at options now is he? I want to see Marmion get a run out but the simple fact is he's clearly, by any and every metric we have available to us, behind Boss. Now can we please, please move the feck on!?

.ak

Yeah.... Word is Luke Marshall is actually next in line after Murray and Reddan anyway.

:pac:

[Deleted User]

molloyjh wrote: »

Joe is not going to say he's made up his mind and is no longer bothered looking at options now is he? I want to see Marmion get a run out but the simple fact is he's clearly, by any and every metric we have available to us, behind Boss. Now can we please, please move the feck on!?

Ho Ho. . I can't wait to see the egg on your beard when Joe picks Marmion.

connachta

molloyjh wrote: »

Joe is not going to say he's made up his mind and is no longer bothered looking at options now is he? I want to see Marmion get a run out but the simple fact is he's clearly, by any and every metric we have available to us, behind Boss. Now can we please, please move the feck on!?

We can't. And yes Joe could have said he's made up his mind. St Andre did exactly that, after England. He said there are only 1-2 spots in contention. Joe didn't say that, there are good reasons for that (injury recovering etc), and we have the right to expect Marmion/Boss is one of these reasons

connachta

Deleted User wrote: »

Ho Ho. . I can't wait to see the egg on your beard when Joe picks Marmion.

Yeah that's what I say just above:P

irishbucsfan

connachta wrote: »

We can't. And yes Joe could have said he's madeupo his mind. St Andre did exactly that, after England. He said there are only 1-2 spots in contention. Joe didn't say that, there are good reasons for that (injury recovering etc), and we have the right to expect Marmion/Boss is one of these reasons

I think that might just be somewhere St Andre should be learning from Joe if anything.

total former

molloyjh wrote: »

Joe is not going to say he's made up his mind and is no longer bothered looking at options now is he? I want to see Marmion get a run out but the simple fact is he's clearly, by any and every metric we have available to us, behind Boss. Now can we please, please move the feck on!?

In fact, Joe claims that not only has he not decided which SH he's bringing, he hasn't even decided how many SHs he's bringing.

His public utterances might not always be 100% reliable...

connachta

total former wrote: »

In fact, Joe claims that not only has he not decided which SH he's bringing, he hasn't even decided how many SHs he's bringing.

His public utterances might not always be 100% reliable...

After all why not picking only 2 SHs and 6 props instead of 5..

irishbucsfan

connachta wrote: »

After all why not picking only 2 SHs and 6 props instead of 5..

Because with 2 scrum halves if one gets injured the day before a game we would have no bench cover, there's a minimum period to make squad callups (think its 48 hours).

3 SHs is pretty much a certainty, but the 3rd SH is unlikely to matter.

The Rape of Lucretia

total former wrote: »

In fact, Joe claims that not only has he not decided which SH he's bringing, he hasn't even decided how many SHs he's bringing.

His public utterances might not always be 100% reliable...

They are 100% reliable to be aimed at optimising his players' preparation for the world cup, while deflecting press attention away from anything of substance.
Letting them write as if the squad was not already a done deal in his mind does this. As well as ensuring a focused squad, where those who are already out, do keep a sense of focus and motivation for the training in case they are needed call-ups, even though they are really on a hiding to nothing.

These games are practice and fitness programme games for the selected squad - not trials, in the sense of their being any competition for places. Others playing are necessary for that greater plan, even though they are not playing for a place.

The opposition are enhanced tacklebags if you will. Some of the players lining out are just filling out these team sessions the way you see Joe himself finish out backs warm ups on the wing. Other players just arent even necessary for that, and so, astute guy that he is, being keen to give even his callups a bit of match time even when he cant do that himself, releases them to their provinces.

connachta

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Because with 2 scrum halves if one gets injured the day before a game we would have no bench cover, there's a minimum period to make squad callups (think its 48 hours).

3 SHs is pretty much a certainty, but the 3rd SH is unlikely to matter.

Yes I knew that, but for the slim chance of getting injured just before the game, it could be worth it to take the risk. If the worst happens, Madigan could play 5 or 10 minutes as cover...

.ak

connachta wrote: »

Yes I knew that, but for the slim chance of getting injured just before the game, it could be worth it to take the risk. If the worst happens, Madigan could play 5 or 10 minutes as cover...

Slim chance? Murray's already had a few dodgy knee injuries, Reddan is getting on and could break down... I'd say the chance is high enough. Imagine if we went into a big game with Madigan as backup scrummie and Murray takes a knock in the first few minutes... Tournament over. For what? Bringing an extra prop?

[Deleted User]

.ak wrote: »

Slim chance? Murray's already had a few dodgy knee injuries, Reddan is getting on and could break down... I'd say the chance is high enough. Imagine if we went into a big game with Madigan as backup scrummie and Murray takes a knock in the first few minutes... Tournament over. For what? Bringing an extra prop?

I think what he was trying to say is that Madigan is now ahead of Marmion.

total former

Madigan is too busy providing cover at 10, 12, 15, 19 and as bagman in case anything happens to Rala. Touch wood.

molloyjh

connachta wrote: »

We can't.

Everything that can be said on this has. A number of times. You don't have to move on but you also don't have to near monopolise threads on the topic either. It'd be really nice to be able to read a thread on Ireland right now that doesn't have pages and pages on Marmion vs Boss. If there's something new to add then fine. Otherwise this is just a circular discussion with the same posts again and again.

phog

.ak wrote: »

Slim chance? Murray's already had a few dodgy knee injuries, Reddan is getting on and could break down... I'd say the chance is high enough. Imagine if we went into a big game with Madigan as backup scrummie and Murray takes a knock in the first few minutes... Tournament over. For what? Bringing an extra prop?

I can't see Boss rescuing us in that scenario anyway.

.ak

phog wrote: »

I can't see Boss rescuing us in that scenario anyway.

I'd take boss over madigan any day of the week. At least there'd be some sort of direction there.

phog

.ak wrote: »

I'd take boss over madigan any day of the week. At least there'd be some sort of direction there.

Ok, we die a slow death but it's the same outcome.

Wang King

.ak wrote: »

I'd take boss over madigan any day of the week. At least there'd be some sort of direction there.

Is backwards a direction?

Yeah_Right

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

They are 100% reliable to be aimed at optimising his players' preparation for the world cup, while deflecting press attention away from anything of substance.
Letting them write as if the squad was not already a done deal in his mind does this. As well as ensuring a focused squad, where those who are already out, do keep a sense of focus and motivation for the training in case they are needed call-ups, even though they are really on a hiding to nothing.

These games are practice and fitness programme games for the selected squad - not trials, in the sense of their being any competition for places. Others playing are necessary for that greater plan, even though they are not playing for a place.

The opposition are enhanced tacklebags if you will. Some of the players lining out are just filling out these team sessions the way you see Joe himself finish out backs warm ups on the wing. Other players just arent even necessary for that, and so, astute guy that he is, being keen to give even his callups a bit of match time even when he cant do that himself, releases them to their provinces.

This. Nailed it.

connachta

Deleted User wrote: »

I think what he was trying to say is that Madigan is now ahead of Marmion.

ahead of Boss:)

connachta

molloyjh wrote: »

Everything that can be said on this has. A number of times. You don't have to move on but you also don't have to near monopolise threads on the topic either. It'd be really nice to be able to read a thread on Ireland right now that doesn't have pages and pages on Marmion vs Boss. If there's something new to add then fine. Otherwise this is just a circular discussion with the same posts again and again.

The debate was "on" because of Boss "at best average" performance. But I agree on one point : this debate is minor until Murray/Reddan gets injured, and once one of them will be (touch wood that doesn't happen), Marmion or Boss would be called in the squad anyway, in addition to the other one.
So, no, the question isn't over but it's reasonable to put it on standy until that potential moment

baaba maal

Jaysus, every time I check this thread there is another angle on why Marmion is/isn't/should/shouldn't be in the frame- would you please starting a thread on Marmion v Boss and let everyone else discuss, I don't know- Ireland Team Talk, gossip and rumours?