Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

connachta · 16-08-2015 07:10PM

smiley_face wrote: »

White should be selected if Moore doesn't regain fitness in time for the Wales match, but he's got 2 weeks so I'd say he has enough time to get fit to start against Wales.
I find it very hard to believe though that a prop barely back after a shoulder injury could be better than a prop of similar ability that has no injury.
It's similar with Cronin and Strauss, and Zebo and Fitgerald, and Trimble and Dave Kearney.
I know they have a month to get fit but wih such tiny margins I'd bet on the u injured player being better.
Same goes for Healy and Kilcoyne at this stage, unfortunately.

Your reasonning suits me, but not for Healy. He's one of the 3 best props in the world, even at 80-85% he should be ahead of Killcoyne. And the crucial games, France and final phases, are later. With 2 more weeks, he could be close to his best when that matters

smiley_face · 16-08-2015 07:13PM

connachta wrote: »

Understand that, and as I said just above, Bent/White isn't the same waste than Marmion/Boss in an Irish and Connacht perspective. To make it clear, Ireland really needs Marmion IMO, whereas his province could still do ok without him for a month. It's the reverse for Whitey

Agree that Marmion needs a bit more time for Ireland, would start him against Wales with Murray to come on.
I think if anything happens to Ross that White could become very important to Ireland, as could be ahead of Moore to start in Ross' hypothetical absence.

connachta · 16-08-2015 07:14PM

smiley_face wrote: »

Agree that Marmion needs a bit more time for Ireland, would start him against Wales with Murray to come on.
I think if anything happens to Ross that White could become very important to Ireland, as could be ahead of Moore to start in Ross' hypothetical absence.

Yes, 100% yes

smiley_face · 16-08-2015 07:19PM

connachta wrote: »

Your reasonning suits me, but not for Healy. He's one of the 3 best props in the world, even at 80-85% he should be ahead of Killcoyne. And the crucial games, France and final phases, are later. With 2 more weeks, he could be close to his best when that matters

I really hope so, but I just can't bring myself to hope that he can recover in time after such a debilitating surgery.
I would be ecstatic if he could be fit in time for selection.
I would certainly not select a player that can't do contact training, there's no need to take the gamble, McGrath is almost as good and we have good backup with Kilcoyne, and Buckley also.

connachta · 16-08-2015 07:22PM

In fairness I'll say a sacrilege, but Marmion should start against England, not Wales. Huge pressure on the young guy, if he does well he's in the final squad, if he prooves to be fragile, then experienced Boos stays ahead. It would be cristal-clear

smiley_face · 16-08-2015 07:23PM

"connachta wrote: »

Bent/White isn't the same waste than Marmion/Boss in an Irish and Connacht perspective. To make it clear, Ireland really needs Marmion IMO, whereas his province could still do ok without him for a month. It's the reverse for Whitey

Just a quick question, can White play both sides as well as Bent?
Genuinely want to know, thanks

total former · 16-08-2015 07:24PM

connachta wrote: »

In fairness I'll say a sacrilege, but Marmion should start against England, not Wales. Huge pressure on the young guy, if he does well he's in the final squad, if he prooves to be fragile, then experienced Boos stays ahead. It would be cristal-clear

The squad will have been picked by the time the England game happens.

smiley_face · 16-08-2015 07:24PM

connachta wrote: »

In fairness I'll say a sacrilege, but Marmion should start against England, not Wales. Huge pressure on the young guy, if he does well he's in the final squad, if he prooves to be fragile, then experienced Boos stays ahead. It would be cristal-clear

Squad selection is before the England match...

connachta · 16-08-2015 07:24PM

smiley_face wrote: »

and Buckley also.

Buckley was very good against Castres, but I've given up, he's 4th choice at best, 2 injuries from being called. Sad but probably true

connachta · 16-08-2015 07:25PM

smiley_face wrote: »

Squad selection is before the England match...

Oh crap, sorry:rolleyes:

total former · 16-08-2015 07:26PM

smiley_face wrote: »

Just a quick question, can White play both sides as well as Bent?
Genuinely want to know, thanks

No.

Or at least, he hasn't played LH since he arrived in Ireland.

smiley_face · 16-08-2015 07:28PM

connachta wrote: »

Buckley was very good against Castres, but I've given up, he's 4th choice at best, 2 injuries to be called. Sad but probably true

Agreed, but he could get a call up is what I meant, if anything happened to Kilcoyne or McGrath, knock on wood!
Edit: to be clear I mean I hope that nobody should get injured, not the other way around. Not wishing anyone an injury!

connachta · 16-08-2015 07:30PM

smiley_face wrote: »

Agreed, but he could get a call up is what I meant, if anything happened to Kilcoyne or McGrath, knock on wood!

Yeah I won't wish any injuries, health of human being comes 1st, we're not soccer fans:D:P

16-08-2015 07:30PM

twinytwo wrote: »

If your gonna pull stats from a year ago you might as well get it right. By last season i assume you mean 2014-2015 (One of the yellows was against leinster and it wasnt for the scrum) How many yellows did he get this season?. Your whole arguement is irrelevant and utter nonsence.

If he was closer to McGrath / Healy in terms of ability then we could probably stomach his indiscipline but having someone who gets sin binned so regularly is a real liability for a team with a game plan based around discipline and not leaking penalties.

Anyway, the primary point is that Bent is superior in the scrum to Kilcoyne and yesterday was a prime example of that.

connachta · 16-08-2015 07:35PM

Anyway It's a nice problem/dilemma to have, 8 props to international level is a situation a lot of teams would love..
Not the same for SHs though

smiley_face · 16-08-2015 07:43PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If he was closer to McGrath / Healy in terms of ability then we could probably stomach his indiscipline but having someone who gets sin binned so regularly is a real liability for a team with a game plan based around discipline and not leaking penalties.

I'm sorry but I still haven't forgotten a certain penalty for losing his feet in a simple ruck that gave NZ back the possession with 30 seconds left and 5 points up.
McGrath is not that far ahead of Kilcoyne in terms of ability and in terms of not giving away silly penalties.
Hate to bring it up but this myth that Kilcoyne is a penalty machine and the others don't make mistakes too is just annoying me.

16-08-2015 07:48PM

smiley_face wrote: »

I'm sorry but I still haven't forgotten a certain penalty for losing his feet in a simple ruck that gave NZ back the possession with 30 seconds left and 6 points up.

Funny you mention that seeing as Nigel Owens said since that he got that one wrong.

Also easy to ignore how well our scrum went that day before and after McGrath came on. A luxury we wouldn't have had with Kilcoyne who, whilst a talented player, is still a long long way behind McGrath.

smiley_face · 16-08-2015 07:51PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Funny you mention that seeing as Nigel Owens said since that he got that one wrong.

Also easy to ignore how well our scrum went that day before and after McGrath came on. A luxury we wouldn't have had with Kilcoyne who, whilst a talented player, is still a long long way behind McGrath.

Agree that McGrath is a great player, my only point is every player can make a mistake, and I don't think Kilcoyne deserves to be called a penalty machine.
I don't recall him being a problem for Munster last season in that department, i.e. specifically in the scrum.

smiley_face · 16-08-2015 07:59PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Funny you mention that seeing as Nigel Owens said since that he got that one wrong.

Is that actually true?
I never heard that. I'm referring to the match last year where McGrath made no attempt to stay on his feet right in front of the referee while the referee shouted at him not to do it.

irishbucsfan · 16-08-2015 08:00PM

smiley_face wrote: »

Agree that McGrath is a great player, my only point is every player can make a mistake, and I don't think Kcoyne deserves to be called a penalty machine.
I don't recall him being a problem for Munster last season in that department, i.e. specifically in the scrum.

He gave away a couple of penalties yesterday, let alone last season!

I don't think it's a huge issue though, I wouldn't be massively concerned if we lost Healy and Mcgrath and ended up with Kilcoyne starting and Buckley on the bench, just shows how much depth we've got in the position.

errlloyd · 16-08-2015 09:18PM

smiley_face wrote: »

Is that actually true?
I never heard that. I'm referring to the match last year where McGrath made no attempt to stay on his feet right in front of the referee while the referee shouted at him not to do it.

Firstly that match never happened, it got called off due to fog over dublin airport meaning the All Blacks couldn't land.

Owens has since said he might have been mistaken with that call, I think JS took it up with him after the match (in a presumably nice, professional Joe Schmidt way, if Cheika had taken it up with him it might have lead to pressing charges).

Flipper22 · 16-08-2015 09:26PM

penybont exile wrote: »

Paul James might be asked to do this ........

Ah but he said TOP teams.....

:pac::pac:

Flipper22 · 16-08-2015 09:37PM

Wang King wrote: »

Imo, that's a ridiculous and laughable statement, but, that's just my opinion.

Kilcoyne has gone in for some pretty dodgy scrummaging at times. I thought he'd improved but he was very illegal at times yesterday and rightly pinged a few times. He bores in a LOT and is happy to take a scrum down if it suits.

I'm not sure if Bent is a better scrummager (Kilcoyne is certainly better in the loose), but it's not a ridiculous statement, not by a long way.

phog · 16-08-2015 10:20PM

Wasn't sure where to post this but as he's an IRFU ref I posted it here.

A look at the rise and rise of John Lacey as a ref.

I know he's not everyone's cup of tea but I think this gives some insight into how he has progressed.

mfceiling · 16-08-2015 10:48PM

phog wrote: »

Wasn't sure where to post this but as he's an IRFU ref I posted it here.

A look at the rise and rise of John Lacey as a ref.

I know he's not everyone's cup of tea but I think this gives some insight into how he has progressed.

*sticks fingers into mouth and whistles*....AWEC

sydthebeat · 16-08-2015 10:49PM

I thought he was very good on Saturday.

I know a lot of the nordies don't like him because of THAT game, but always came across as a decent assertive ref on the pitch.

thomond2006 · 16-08-2015 10:50PM

Boards.ie needs a tag function....awec where are you?

Stheno · 16-08-2015 10:52PM

I was too high up to see badness in the scrum yesterday, but what happened to cause Ireland to be penalised three times in scrums

Was it illegal wheeling?

Teferi · 16-08-2015 11:01PM

Stheno wrote: »

I was too high up to see badness in the scrum yesterday, but what happened to cause Ireland to be penalised three times in scrums

Was it illegal wheeling?

Late in the game in one of the scrums the Scottish loosehead was trying to twist White and lost his footing (intentionally I reckon). We got penalised for it.

.ak · 16-08-2015 11:06PM

One was for killers boring in.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

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