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Turning a mule into a race horse.
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You'll still have to explain it to me - I'm slow! Great cake, happy birthday.
I needed it too lol
Jean Valjean a character in Les Miserables was imprisoned and worked as a slave / prison labour. His prisoner number is the number on the bib. It's mentioned quite a few times and sung about in the film / musical. So they picked that as a number to reference being a slave to running (I am considered in the mule household to have a very definite focus on the running and getting plans done etc)
It's actually quite cool in a way but as I said my initial thoughts were thats a woeful looking time there
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Wednesday
Midweek session day - today had 6 MP miles in with a warmup and cool down mile either side. New shoes seem to be helping things - after an initial bit of pain things settled down quite well and this was the most pain free run I've had in months. Could be a placebo effect though
Marathon pace was held well and splits quite consistent.
MP splits .. 8:40, 8:37, 8:36, 8:31, 8:36, 8:36,0 -
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For me PM, if you'd take greater pleasure in a fast 5k, prefer the speed work and don't have the motivation for the marathon, then why do it. Pick up a good 5k plan and give it a lash. Simples!
For me it was the opposite, I was asked to consider a 5k plan but I have to slay that fat smug sub 3 dragon first!
No point flogging a dead mule
TbL0 -
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ThebitterLemon wrote: »For me PM, if you'd take greater pleasure in a fast 5k, prefer the speed work and don't have the motivation for the marathon, then why do it. Pick up a good 5k plan and give it a lash. Simples!
For me it was the opposite, I was asked to consider a 5k plan but I have to slay that fat smug sub 3 dragon first!
No point flogging a dead mule
TbL
I have an equally smug but maybe a little fatter sub 4 marathon laughing at me too. :mad:0 -
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ThebitterLemon wrote: »For me PM, if you'd take greater pleasure in a fast 5k, prefer the speed work and don't have the motivation for the marathon, then why do it. Pick up a good 5k plan and give it a lash. Simples!
For me it was the opposite, I was asked to consider a 5k plan but I have to slay that fat smug sub 3 dragon first!
No point flogging a dead mule
TbL
I'd totally agree with this. To be quite blunt you aren't going to be running a great marathon when a 32 mile week is considered high mileage (especially when half of that is in one run). You can however do serious damage to your 5-10k times if you inject a bit of quality. The Rathfarnham 5k is on Sunday 27th September and is probably the fastest in Ireland..... 0 -
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I'd totally agree with this. To be quite blunt you aren't going to be running a great marathon when a 32 mile week is considered high mileage (especially when half of that is in one run). You can however do serious damage to your 5-10k times if you inject a bit of quality. The Rathfarnham 5k is on Sunday 27th September and is probably the fastest in Ireland.....
Blunt is grand.
That's one of the things at me. I know to do a marathon real justice you'd need to be heading for 50 mile weeks. That's the level needed to be heading for lower half or sub 3. But for me there is a huge gap between that and a fraction under sub 5 I currently sit at. Sub 4 for me personally would be a very respectable result. Not great in the wider scheme of things but still a huge improvement and one I could happily leave there for years if needed, build a better base and then come back to a marathon for a much better time.
Think it's a case of evaluating properly in 3 weeks. Will have had that paced HM and another 17 miles in by then. If the appetite isn't there at that point that 5k looks very good !0 -
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Pacing Mule wrote: »Blunt is grand.
That's one of the things at me. I know to do a marathon real justice you'd need to be heading for 50 mile weeks. That's the level needed to be heading for lower half or sub 3. But for me there is a huge gap between that and a fraction under sub 5 I currently sit at. Sub 4 for me personally would be a very respectable result. Not great in the wider scheme of things but still a huge improvement and one I could happily leave there for years if needed, build a better base and then come back to a marathon for a much better time.
I think you need decent miles to do yourself justice over the marathon full stop. If sub 4 is a decent result for you that's the same as sub 2:40 being a decent result for TRR imo.
Maybe if sub 4 was a totally soft result then you'd get away with very few miles, but to be blunt again your half time would suggest that sub 4 would be a good result.
I gave the same advice to Anna last week when she was struggling with her long runs, can you not look at upping your midweek mileage and frequency a little? Turn those 3 mile runs into 5 etc.maybe introduce one MLR. if your long run is going to be half your total weekly mileage then it is always going to be struggle IMO......0 -
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I think you need decent miles to do yourself justice over the marathon full stop. If sub 4 is a decent result for you that's the same as sub 2:40 being a decent result for TRR imo.
Maybe if sub 4 was a totally soft result then you'd get away with very few miles, but to be blunt again your half time would suggest that sub 4 would be a good result.
I gave the same advice to Anna last week when she was struggling with her long runs, can you not look at upping your midweek mileage and frequency a little? Turn those 3 mile runs into 5 etc.maybe introduce one MLR. if your long run is going to be half your total weekly mileage then it is always going to be struggle IMO......
Sorry - phone had hit send mid post ...
Current mileage and breakdown of long run being that percentage of the weekly total is similar to boards plan but does need to be higher. It's a bit ahead of most novice plans though.
As a matter of interest what would you think I need to hit in that upcoming HM for sub 4 to be realistic. Would 1:45 do or do you think sub 1:40 is required. Current one as you know is 1:490 -
I think you need decent miles to do yourself justice over the marathon full stop. If sub 4 is a decent result for you that's the same as sub 2:40 being a decent result for TRR imo.
Maybe if sub 4 was a totally soft result then you'd get away with very few miles, but to be blunt again your half time would suggest that sub 4 would be a good result.
I gave the same advice to Anna last week when she was struggling with her long runs, can you not look at upping your midweek mileage and frequency a little? Turn those 3 mile runs into 5 etc.maybe introduce one MLR. if your long run is going to be half your total weekly mileage then it is always going to be struggle IMO......
I have to agree with Meno on this. I think one of the big factors to getting injured last year was that my LSR was far too high a percentage of my weekly mileage.0 -
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Thanks everyone for the advice / suggestions. I do very much appreciate it.
I've had a few chats with people off the board here as well as away from it in general and here's where my current thoughts are:
I don't believe I have the stamina or base within me to come anything close to what the likes of McMillan calculate for me off my 5k time. Obviously this assumes proper mileage and training goes into it. The point Meno makes about the mileage being relatively low is very valid here. Considering my current PB for a half is 1:49:xx and I reckon I am in 1:44 shape now a more realistic marathon target for me would be sub 4 as opposed to McMillans current predictions of 3:3x off my 5k time. Whilst I was aware of this and gave a wide window to my MP paces within the plan (ranged from a 3:40-3:55) what I didn't do was adjust and give that same window to the steady, easy and more notably the long runs.
If I were to actually target a more realistic sub 4 my MP would be 9:05 and LSR pace would be closer to if not over 10:00 pace. I've been trying to do my LSRs at 9:30 pace which is way too fast in this scenario. Likewise the steady runs would actually have been MP runs etc. It is quite likely that my target paces are so far off that the LSR is requiring much more effort than it should be.
If it's too much of a struggle all the time then I'm not going to be enjoying the training and the prize at the end doesn't seem worth it. But stepping back today away from the feelings after yesterdays LSR there is a genuine desire there to get under 4 hours for the marathon. It's what has been on my mind all year, have taken time off work etc to run DCM. I know it's not a great time overall and I'm capable of more than that but I'm in no rush for that. I think I would be quite content to hit a sub 4 now and then base build properly upping the mileage gradually for a better effort in the future. Especially given the thoughts here that even a sub 4 is no guarantee. It seems like training for a MP quite a bit faster than that could be the issue.
I mentioned reviewing things in 3 weeks and that's what I intend to do but I will spend the next 3 weeks running to a slower target with adjusted paces. If after the raced half and in particular the next 17 mile LSR things are no better then absolutely will abandon DCM for this year. All the points made about enjoying the training and getting a better shorter distance times etc are valid and will be listened to for sure. If however things go well there is an added bonus of 2 of boardsies finest
pacing sub 4 this year and I'd quite enjoy spending 4 hours on the road with them.
Thanks again for the discussion guys.0 -
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Hi PM - I wouldn't resume to give you training advice or speculate on what you should do but I hope you don't mind if I make some observations !
1) You've come a hell of a long way in the last year or so, dramatically improved your 5k & half times
2) you've had a bad experience with DCM the last two years & anything you do this year (barring injury or illness) is sure to be an improvement which will be good for your head
3) you say that a 4 hour marathon is not a good time but (in my opinion) that is only if you are comparing yourself to runners who are hitting close to 3 hours & under. Plenty of people would be very happy to hit close to 4 hours & push on from there next year ( you have plenty of time - you're only a young fella )
Don't put yourself under too much pressure time-wise - think of what you would have been happy with after last year's DCM & find a middle ground.0
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