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Turning a mule into a race horse.
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Notwork Error wrote: »You're missing the wood for the trees in my post. He has far more potential than a sub-4 so what's the point when he could be using this time to build to a more ambitious target in the long-term instead of running below his capabilities off limited mileage. I've being in position before with similar PB's over the short stuff when I ran my first marathon, I ran 20mpw for that and finished in 4:07, I remember thinking all those guys running sub-3:30 were God's. 5 months later, I ran 3:15 off of 35-40mpw, they weren't God's at all, they were just preparing better than me. I sold myself short in the first marathon by not putting in the preparation and I feel PM is doing the same now.
That's why I'm calling him stubborn, he won't accept that good prep will lead to the results. I feel like he is trying to get by on the bare minimum to get a result when he could be doing so much more and realising his current potential. Call me a dick for saying it but that's my thoughts and I mean it in an encouraging way.
Anyway, I'm out!
Im not missing anything. Ive already said ive no authority or knowledge on the marathon stuff. But calling him stubborn when hes already said hes in two minds about it and when he has already said he has little motivation for the lsrs is a bit baffling? He knows exactly what good prep will lead to
To say he's just putting in enough to get by is total bs. He went looking for advice on a marathon plan based on the time he could put in etc and this is what he came back with. Isnt that what youre supposed to do with training figure out what schedule is realistically supposed to work for you?0 -
For me, it all boils down to the last few weeks. If you've done the work, you can do the 14 miles at MP two and a half weeks out from the race. If you can do that, you can hit the pace for the 26.2. That's the simple beauty of the meno plan.
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Looking up this week I have to say. More advice and thoughts sought and given away from boards too about the mileage level versus chances of sub 4 etc. In particular talked with ECOLII in his current form
who has always advised on or provided my training plans. We've tweaked things slightly midweek to increase the mileage a bit but as the plan was stepping up mileage and / or intensity anyway his main thoughts were more towards getting my motivation back and the possibility of me wussing out on the day chasing a sub 4 (he was politer than that but I got what he was getting at) and that perhaps more for testing resolve and gaining confidence that some extra miles would help. Told him my motivation was back already 
Tuesday
5 easy @ 9:36 avg pace
As much as I'm adjusting the long run and MP paces easy is still easy and a relatively shorter run like this am quite happy to stay in and around the 9:30 - 9:40 easy pace I've been used to.
Wednesday
1 Easy, 5 @ MP, 1 Easy Cool Down
9:32, 8:45, 8:43, 8:54, 8:58, 8:54, 9:54
A little too fast for MP but the first two splits in particular were wind and hill assisted. Made a concious effort to slow it down a bit for the next 3 to get close to MP. Felt comfortable all the way.
Friday
5 easy @ 9:40 avg pace
"Bread and Butter" run was the phrase used to describe these to me earlier in the week. Nothing remarkable. Just a nice easy run which was extended off the original plan.
Saturday
Skipped this. Was meant to be an easy 3 miles with Sundays run down as a steady 12 (one of the step back weeks) I felt though that I needed another go at the long run after last weeks trouble with it. I'm racing a half next weekend so won't be doing one then which would leave only one proper long run done over the next 3 weeks of evaluating is this marathon for me or not. So I figured I would take the miles from this and add them and a little more to the Sunday run instead. This left me with a weekly mileage increase rather than the planned step back.
Sunday
18 Mile LSR with Mile 17 @ MP
Crucial long run for me today. First one with the pace dialled back to a more appropriate long run pace for a sub 4 marathon goal. Headed out from the house down to the canal at Castleknock and followed the canal all the way to Phibbsborough and back. What this meant was a second half of 9 uphill miles. Gradual enough with 1 mile quite sharp. Aiming for between 10:00 and 10:15 pace which I was there or therabouts on. Couple of miles came in slightly slower. Was less than 2 miles in and the first of the little niggles started at me but this time round I had a determination in me that was missing last time out and it didn't phase me at all. 9 miles down and time to turn around. Got a little tougher then as the canal climbs zapped me a bit but kept going handily enough. Mile 15-16 have a 100ft climb in them but again no problems. I knew at Mile 14 that I had this in the bag and Mile 17 would be ran at MP to prove it to myself. The climb then on 15-16 was relatively easy and was actually a bit fast on 16 as I was waiting to go off at MP like a dog on a leash. Started mile 17 a little fast but eased off to come back to MP. Legs only really started aching on the last mile which was grand by me.
10:13, 10:18, 10:00, 9:54, 10:17, 10:17, 10:13, 10:22, 10:22, 10:15, 10:02, 10:14, 10:08, 10:16, 10:12, 9:51, 8:55, 10:21
Total running time 3:02:32 avg pace 10:08
Don't know if it was the pulling back on pace or the mental attitude changing not letting the little stuff snowball, or a combination of both but this was a far easier on the body run than the last couple and was quite enjoyable.
Total Weekly Mileage 35 - going in the right direction.0 -
Nice quiet week on the log :pac:
Mixed bag this week. Less mileage due to a few external influences and a "race" today.
Tuesday
5 miles @ 9:20 avg pace
Bog standard 5 mile easy run with nothing more to say about it !
Wednesday
8 miles - 5E 2HMP 1CD
Extending the midweek run into medium territory. Plan was to do a couple of miles in this at HMP with a HM on Sunday on the agenda. Get a feel for the pace.
9:32, 9:20, 9:40, 9:55, 9:16, 7:57, 7:58, 9:50
HMP based on a 1:45 target. Easily hit (today that is!)
Friday
3 miles steady @ 9:13 avg pace
Things started to go wrong here. I ended up with literally 30 minutes to run and it was the only time I got. Death in the family meant a lot of time spent on non running stuff and Mrs Mule was out for the night so I had the little mules to myself. Still 30 minutes was better than nothing !
Saturday
Woke up ill. Went to work. Came home ill. Went to bed instead of running. It was the right call to make.
Sunday
Half marathon raced at Donadea Forest Park
Work causes me grief getting races organised as I can't run on Saturdays. I wanted to do a half to judge how I was doing for DCM and the only one on Sunday I found was Longford. However I was advised that the course may be a little short and that left me with a dilemna ! Ultraman1 very kindly offered to officially measure a half marathon out at Donadea based on their 5k course with a bit extra tagged along. Menoscemo offered to pace me for a crack at 1:45 with Tunguska and dublin runner joining us too as well as a few of Ultraman1s clubmates from Donadea and a legend of a dog too whose name I can't remember !
I was absolutely bricking it this morning. Woke up a bit better but not quite 100%. I had been told as well that the Donadea course was relatively tough and that anything up to 1:48 would still be a relatively decent result. I wanted 1:45 though. And if that translated to a 1:42 out on the roads then that was great
Meno was saying before the start that pacing would be difficult enough given the trees effecting the GPS coverage. Also there is a climb up one side of the loop and decline down the other which also would effect pacing. This wasn't an easy hit this per mile gig at all. He had a plan to pace by time for the extra bit added onto the start and then the 4 x 5k loops of the forest we would be doing.
Mile 1-4
We started off as a big group - some shot off a little ahead but my focus was on Meno. In Meno we trust etc
We got back to the start of the first full lap slightly ahead of schedule but that was fine as it was a little decline to that. First loop around wasn't too bad but the hills on mile 2 were a bit of a concern especially given I would see them 4 times in total. :eek: Before mile 2 was up I felt a pain in the left foot. On the side / top and a place never hurt before. This never went away as it turned out. Got back around to the start of the second lap bang on target for the full lap. Kudos to Meno here as the GPS was all over the place ! Mile 4 straddled the start so part of this was on lap 2.
7:54, 8:20, 8:10, 8:00
Mile 5,6,7 - Lap 2
Tunguska came up to me at this point to ask how I was doing. I actually wasn't doing too good at this stage. Very worringly for this early it was becoming a real struggle to keep up with the group - the group itself was dwindling as not everyone was doing the full distance nor the pace itself but again Meno was the man to follow so all was good. I was though starting to fall away ever so slightly. By mile 7 where I should have been getting back some time lost from mile 5 it just wasn't there.
8:34, 7:58, 8:16
Mile 8,9,10 - Lap 3
Another check in from Tunguska early here (he was taking a bit of time out each lap having being that bit faster so would join me for the start) Spoke even less to him at this stage - was focusing on trying to run and had feck all convo in me. Meno gradually pulled away during this lap. As he explained to me afterwards he had slowed a bit to let me catch up but I had slowed too in response. Basically I was hanging onto a gap that if he slowed I would still maintain so he decided best thing to do was to go back to 1:45 pace so I could see where I needed to be. We both knew though that 1:45 was gone and for me attention shifted to getting a PB Again I didn't make up the lost time on the 1st mile climb. Ultraman1 had dropped back and it was me and him for the rest of the run as Meno was too far ahead.
8:44, 8:16, 8:46
Mile 11,12,13
Mile 11 broke my heart. The hills seemed so much steeper for this. Especially the last one which also seemed to have doubled in length too. Plenty of encouragement from Ultraman1 here but I was at a relative standstill. Beeped in at 9:21 and I was absolutely disgusted. At this stage a PB (1:49:13) was looking unlikely too. I wanted to dig in and push for the last couple of miles but was also afraid to push too soon and end up walking home. A brief spurt at Mile 12 was cut down to size the first hill we came to and I had to pull back and let Ultraman1 come through again. Again plenty of encouragement and counting down from him, telling me how far out we were. I was hanging together though I had got the pace back to 1:45 target pace. I wasn't paying too much attention to the watch now as I was hurting too much. I figured I would push and hang on until close enough to finish and try and push some more. Praying for the left turn to the finish straight to come up. Saw it - Could have cried with happiness. It wasn't it. Could have cried just cried. but eventually I saw it. Glanced down at watch. The time wasn't showing but the distance was. The watch was going to be short - this was actually good news. Turned left ran as hard as I could down to the finish line. Hit stop.
9:21, 8:20, 8:01 (pace)
Watch came up short but a look at the Strava map clearly shows where the GPS came up short and cut most of the corners on the run so this is a proper and accurate half marathon time.
New PB 1:47:53
Reflections:
Ever so slightly disappointed with the time. Wanted 1:45 out of this today but that time is fairly close to a 1:45 out on the road so can't be too put out. Also as great as it was to have the pacing this wasn't full race conditions. Mile 11 was a shambles but dug in enough to pull it back for the last 2 home. All round it was a solid enough run. Huge thanks to the lads for organising and running this with me. PB Beers are in hand.0 -
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Fair play pat especially for gutiing it out after the 2nd lap. Most of your splits were deinitely much faster than your watch measured.
I Had the first 4 miles @ 7:40; 8:15, 7:55, 7:50 (and even my watch came up a little short, but only 0.04). Definitely shows that you can't trust a garmin in a forest.
Absolutely. Check this out for example ...
Cuts nearly every corner. It all adds up to a very inaccurate distance (and a nice surprise at the end to not be as far off as I thought I was pace wise)0 -
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Pacing Mule wrote: »Absolutely. Check this out for example ...
Cuts nearly every corner. It all adds up to a very inaccurate distance (and a nice surprise at the end to not be as far off as I thought I was pace wise)
Fair bit of swimming done there I see, you must have been following Dudley dog into the lake to cool down each lap 0 -
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dublin runner wrote: »Nicely done.
Sometimes it's not always about the result. What mattered yesterday was that you dug it out when it got tough. I'll be honest, I did slightly doubt you (you were looking tired early on!) but you fought it out. That sort of attitude will really stand to you, as will the experience.
Great morning and cake.....mmmmmm! I love the 5k loop but I really think it's suited to a smaller, short agile runner (light of feet etc.). It's very deceptive. I find that it bloody tough. Get the miles in and a very good run in DCM is on the cards.
Cheers A and thanks again for coming out for the run.
Yeah I wasn't in great shape as early as 4 miles in which I can only put down to not being 100% well. We were slower than my 5 mile race pace yet it felt like 5 mile race effort. Was a little disheartening tbh. Am taking the positive out of it that I did hang on all be it not at the pace I wanted to 0 -
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So 3 weeks have passed since I said I'd give it 3 weeks to decide if DCM was for me this year or not.
Positives: There is no question that the desire is back. Today was a good example of that. Didn't want to miss the LSR when in fairness I possibly should have. Mileage has increased a bit - averaging out at 34 miles over the last 3 weeks including a raced HM which cut the mileage down a little.
Negatives: Niggles and feckin injuries. It's a delicate balancing act between getting the miles in and not overdoing it and putting myself out through injury and not by choice.
Middle Ground: Raced HM although a little off the time I wanted was still within the realms of a sub 4 marathon.
When I first expressed a doubt whether or not DCM was on for me this year I was more on about the desire (or lack of) that was my issue. That kind of snowballed a bit here after into other points. Obviously I am aware that more mileage would make for a better performance and I have a better time than sub 4 in me. At the same time given the training base I do have in me and the niggles etc sub 4 is still a decent challenge and would by no means be a certainty. It's also fair to say that concentrating on shorter distances for a while would make sense too. But the fact is that I do want this. I want a sub 4 marathon this year and I'm going to continue to work towards this. I won't enter until the very last minute in case the miles required for sub 4 push too far and turn niggles into injuries. I don't want anything over 4. That's not an option and I wouldn't be bothered entering if that was on the cards. Sub 4 or bust.
Thanks again to all of you who gave your thoughts on this. I know I'm going against the views of most of you by going ahead but please don't think I don't respect them.0 -
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