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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

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  • #5042
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wang King wrote: »
    What top tier nation is bringing a 3 or 4 th choice provincial back up to the world cup ?

    About the same number of nations that have one club with the best two LH's and best two TH's in the same squad.


  • #5043
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    total former wrote: »

    I guess people are just never going to get over his introduction or judge him on his merits.

    I imagine a lot of people on here would get over it just fine if he joined their province.


  • #5044
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    total former wrote: »
    Being 3rd choice at Leinster just means he's not as good as Healy, McGrath, Moore or Ross; which none of the other props are anyway.

    The guy started Heineken cup pool games on both sides this season and did well every time.

    I guess people are just never going to get over his introduction or judge him on his merits.

    I'd put him behind White and Kilcoyne too
    And you'd be better off not making daft assumptions


  • #5045
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,822 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Neil3030 wrote: »
    The reason people do this is actually well documented - they have overweight parents, specifically mothers, and their other halves are typically not particularly attractive.

    What's most interesting though, is that they love being reminded of these facts, so as an act of good cheer, you should do same.

    Film it for the rest of us.

    I woke up with a black eye. Not sure why


  • #5046
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I woke up with a black eye. Not sure why

    You probably deserved it :)


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  • #5047
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wang King wrote: »
    I'd put him behind White and Kilcoyne too
    And you'd be better off not making daft assumptions

    I'd say he is a better LH scrummager than Kilcoyne who more and more looks like a liability / penalty machine against decent opposition.


  • #5048
    twinytwo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,577 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    McGrath, Best, Moore, POC, Henderson, POM, Henry, Heaslip;
    Murray, Sexton, Fitzgerald, Henshaw, Earls, D Kearney, R Kearney

    Strauss, Bent, Furlong, Ryan, SOB, Marmion, Jackson, Payne

    A possible team for Wales.


    Would give wales a run for their money. murray, sexton and henshaw would need to come out injury free. All three are literaly as important to the team as BOD when he was playing.


  • #5049
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I'd say he is a better LH scrummager than Kilcoyne who more and more looks like a liability / penalty machine against decent opposition.

    Imo, that's a ridiculous and laughable statement, but, that's just my opinion.


  • #5050
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I woke up with a black eye. Not sure why

    Someone's aul wan must have poked you in the eye with their .....


  • #5051
    twinytwo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,577 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'd say he is a better LH scrummager than Kilcoyne who more and more looks like a liability / penalty machine against decent opposition.

    Christ


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  • #5052
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wang King wrote: »
    Imo, that's a ridiculous and laughable statement, but, that's just my opinion.

    Fair enough. I'll just leave this here so, stats from yesterday - circled is for penalties. It's one area where Kilcoyne came out on top

    S5L4SiJ.png


  • #5053
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    Wang King wrote: »
    I'd put him behind White and Kilcoyne too
    And you'd be better off not making daft assumptions

    It's not a daft assumption, it's a fact. If you're not one of those people, great.

    Kilcoyne is probably a better LH and White is probably a better TH. However, you cannot deduce that from the fact that he is third choice at Leinster as they would be too


  • #5054
    smiley_face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 469 ✭✭smiley_face


    Wang King wrote: »
    Have never seen Faumuina play loosehead for NZ?
    And again, not similar at all. What top tier nation is bringing a 3 or 4 th choice provincial back up to the world cup ?

    It's uncertain what the final squads will end up as, whether 5 or 6 props will be taken for each team, but I'd imagine some teams will sacrifice the 6th prop spot for an extra back row or centre if they have suitable players.
    The 5th prop is unlikely to get much match time, so the risk versus the reward will determine each squad's choice.
    FWIW, Bent is the best utility prop we have so I don't understand the resentment??


  • #5055
    twinytwo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,577 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Fair enough. I'll just leave this here so, stats from yesterday - circled is for penalties. It's one area where Kilcoyne came out on top

    S5L4SiJ.png


    And? its one game. I can show you games where POM/SOB/Healy etc gave away the same or more penos.


  • #5056
    connachta
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,981 ✭✭✭connachta


    Bent should be really tested, one half as LH, another TH, to see if it's worth it


  • #5057
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    total former wrote: »
    It's not a daft assumption, it's a fact. If you're not one of those people, great.

    Kilcoyne is probably a better LH and White is probably a better TH. However, you cannot deduce that from the fact that he is third choice at Leinster as they would be too

    Wow ....leaving it there as the provincial bs is overpowering here at the minute, thanks.


  • #5058
    smiley_face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 469 ✭✭smiley_face


    connachta wrote: »
    Bent should be really tested, one half as LH, another TH, to see if it's worth it
    If you mean in the same match then that will prove nothing, if he's used he will most likely be brought on for the last few minutes of a match at one side or the other, and he's already done that, come on towards the end of each of the last 2 matches in each side.


  • #5059
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wang King wrote: »
    Wow ....leaving it there as the provincial bs is overpowering here at the minute, thanks.

    That was an incredibly reasonable statement, are you saying that Healy, McGrath, Ross, Moore are not the proven best two LH's and TH's in Ireland?

    If you agree that they are, then you also by default have to agree that an argument against Bent because he is 3rd best in his province does nothing at all to quantify his ranking nationally, as those ahead of him are also ahead of everyone else.

    There is no bias in total formers post. Plenty in this thread mind you, but none in what he wrote.


  • #5060
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    twinytwo wrote: »
    And? its one game. I can show you games where POM/SOB/Healy etc gave away the same or more penos.

    Ah ok, well what about the 3 yellow cards last season, all from the scrum.


  • #5061
    molloyjh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    He's a better scrummager at LH but he's a long way behind Kilcoyne in the loose. If Healy is fit then Bent is ahead of Kilcoyne. If Healy isn't fit then Kilcoyne leap frogs him. What Bent brings to the squad in terms of versatility and freeing up space elsewhere works as 5th prop, but it doesn't make him 3rd choice LH, which is a different thing altogether.


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  • #5062
    molloyjh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Jesus people, are you all desperate to read the worst possible into each post at the moment? Take a breath, re read what people are writing and see have you interpreted it correctly. Life would be a lot easier here if you do.


  • #5063
    Teferi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Jesus people, are you all desperate to read the worst possible into each post at the moment? Take a breath, re read what people are writing and see have you interpreted it correctly. Life would be a lot easier here if you do.

    No, you're a poopy head.


  • #5064
    connachta
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,981 ✭✭✭connachta


    smiley_face wrote: »
    If you mean in the same match then that will prove nothing, if he's used he will most likely be brought on for the last few minutes of a match at one side or the other, and he's already done that, come on towards the end of each of the last 2 matches in each side.

    Know that, what I mean is he needs at least 30 minutes on each side, to be sure


  • #5065
    smiley_face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 469 ✭✭smiley_face


    molloyjh wrote: »
    What Bent brings to the squad in terms of versatility and freeing up space elsewhere works as 5th prop, but it doesn't make him 3rd choice LH, which is a different thing altogether.

    They are auditioning for two separate roles,
    Bent is being looked at as a utility prop only,
    Kilcoyne is being looked at as next best LH-only prop in case Healy can't play.
    They're not in competition to start, as I think the LH-only option would be preferred as they are the specialist in that position, whereas the utility prop is supposed to be as evenly sufficient in each position as possible, and can't dedicate himself to one side.
    If Kilcoyne and Bent both go then I'd say Kilcoyne will be on the bench with Bent at best coming on to give relief in each of the first two pool matches.


  • #5066
    aimee1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    connachta wrote: »
    Know that, what I mean is he needs at least 30 minutes on each side, to be sure

    well he started 5 ECC games last season and played both sides of the scrum and did quite well. So we know what he brings


  • #5067
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    Wang King wrote: »
    Wow ....leaving it there as the provincial bs is overpowering here at the minute, thanks.

    It's basic logic.

    But it's also irrelevant. Kilcoyne isn't competing with Bent and White isn't competing with Bent, they're only competing with the 5 prop policy.

    Bent is the ONLY player who can cover both sides to any sort of level.


  • #5068
    smiley_face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 469 ✭✭smiley_face


    connachta wrote: »
    Know that, what I mean is he needs at least 30 minutes on each side, to be sure

    Ok. I think the opportunity to do that has probably passed by now.
    But I agree he should have been given more time in the last two matches.
    Perhaps that's all he was comfortable with up to now, hard to say unless you are inside the camp.
    He did give an interview recently where he said he's working really hard to be as good as possible on each side, I guess it must be physically very tough to do.


  • #5069
    connachta
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,981 ✭✭✭connachta


    aimee1 wrote: »
    well he started 5 ECC games last season and played both sides of the scrum and did quite well. So we know what he brings

    Europe for clubs and intenational rugby aren't exactly the same. But look, White has the cap he deserved, and TBH I won't be bothered if he's released to Connacht, could make a differeence for the Westerners


  • #5070
    connachta
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,981 ✭✭✭connachta


    smiley_face wrote: »
    Ok. I think the opportunity to do that has probably passed by now.
    But I agree he should have been given more time in the last two matches.
    Perhaps that's all he was comfortable with up to now, hard to say unless you are inside the camp.
    He did give an interview recently where he said he's working really hard to be as good as possible on each side, I guess it must be very physically tough to do.

    Understand that, and as I said just above, Bent/White isn't the same waste than Marmion/Boss in an Irish and Connacht perspective. To make it clear, Ireland really needs Marmion IMO, whereas his province could still do ok without him for a month. It's the reverse for Whitey


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  • #5071
    smiley_face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 469 ✭✭smiley_face


    connachta wrote: »
    Europe for clubs and intenational rugby aren't exactly the same. But look, White has the cap he deserved, and TBH I won't be bothered if he's released to Connacht, could make a differeence for the Westerners

    White should be selected if Moore doesn't regain fitness in time for the Wales match, but he's got 2 weeks so I'd say he has enough time to get fit to start against Wales.
    I find it very hard to believe though that a prop barely back after a shoulder injury could be better than a prop of similar ability that has no injury.
    It's similar with Cronin and Strauss, and Zebo and Fitzgerald, and Trimble and Dave Kearney.
    I know they have a month to get fit but with such tiny margins separating players when fit I'd bet on the uninjured player being better.
    Same goes for Healy and Kilcoyne at this stage, unfortunately.


This discussion has been closed.
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