Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

Wang King wrote: »

What top tier nation is bringing a 3 or 4 th choice provincial back up to the world cup ?

About the same number of nations that have one club with the best two LH's and best two TH's in the same squad.

total former wrote: »

I guess people are just never going to get over his introduction or judge him on his merits.

I imagine a lot of people on here would get over it just fine if he joined their province.

total former wrote: »

Being 3rd choice at Leinster just means he's not as good as Healy, McGrath, Moore or Ross; which none of the other props are anyway.

The guy started Heineken cup pool games on both sides this season and did well every time.

I guess people are just never going to get over his introduction or judge him on his merits.

I'd put him behind White and Kilcoyne too
And you'd be better off not making daft assumptions

Neil3030 wrote: »

The reason people do this is actually well documented - they have overweight parents, specifically mothers, and their other halves are typically not particularly attractive.

What's most interesting though, is that they love being reminded of these facts, so as an act of good cheer, you should do same.

Film it for the rest of us.

I woke up with a black eye. Not sure why

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I woke up with a black eye. Not sure why

You probably deserved it

Wang King wrote: »

I'd put him behind White and Kilcoyne too
And you'd be better off not making daft assumptions

I'd say he is a better LH scrummager than Kilcoyne who more and more looks like a liability / penalty machine against decent opposition.

twinytwo

thomond2006 wrote: »

McGrath, Best, Moore, POC, Henderson, POM, Henry, Heaslip;
Murray, Sexton, Fitzgerald, Henshaw, Earls, D Kearney, R Kearney

Strauss, Bent, Furlong, Ryan, SOB, Marmion, Jackson, Payne

A possible team for Wales.

Would give wales a run for their money. murray, sexton and henshaw would need to come out injury free. All three are literaly as important to the team as BOD when he was playing.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'd say he is a better LH scrummager than Kilcoyne who more and more looks like a liability / penalty machine against decent opposition.

Imo, that's a ridiculous and laughable statement, but, that's just my opinion.

Deleted User wrote: »

I woke up with a black eye. Not sure why

Someone's aul wan must have poked you in the eye with their .....

twinytwo

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd say he is a better LH scrummager than Kilcoyne who more and more looks like a liability / penalty machine against decent opposition.

Christ

Wang King wrote: »

Imo, that's a ridiculous and laughable statement, but, that's just my opinion.

Fair enough. I'll just leave this here so, stats from yesterday - circled is for penalties. It's one area where Kilcoyne came out on top

total former

Wang King wrote: »

I'd put him behind White and Kilcoyne too
And you'd be better off not making daft assumptions

It's not a daft assumption, it's a fact. If you're not one of those people, great.

Kilcoyne is probably a better LH and White is probably a better TH. However, you cannot deduce that from the fact that he is third choice at Leinster as they would be too

Wang King wrote: »

Have never seen Faumuina play loosehead for NZ?
And again, not similar at all. What top tier nation is bringing a 3 or 4 th choice provincial back up to the world cup ?

It's uncertain what the final squads will end up as, whether 5 or 6 props will be taken for each team, but I'd imagine some teams will sacrifice the 6th prop spot for an extra back row or centre if they have suitable players.
The 5th prop is unlikely to get much match time, so the risk versus the reward will determine each squad's choice.
FWIW, Bent is the best utility prop we have so I don't understand the resentment??

twinytwo

Deleted User wrote: »

Fair enough. I'll just leave this here so, stats from yesterday - circled is for penalties. It's one area where Kilcoyne came out on top

And? its one game. I can show you games where POM/SOB/Healy etc gave away the same or more penos.

Bent should be really tested, one half as LH, another TH, to see if it's worth it

total former wrote: »

It's not a daft assumption, it's a fact. If you're not one of those people, great.

Kilcoyne is probably a better LH and White is probably a better TH. However, you cannot deduce that from the fact that he is third choice at Leinster as they would be too

Wow ....leaving it there as the provincial bs is overpowering here at the minute, thanks.

connachta wrote: »

Bent should be really tested, one half as LH, another TH, to see if it's worth it

If you mean in the same match then that will prove nothing, if he's used he will most likely be brought on for the last few minutes of a match at one side or the other, and he's already done that, come on towards the end of each of the last 2 matches in each side.

Wang King wrote: »

Wow ....leaving it there as the provincial bs is overpowering here at the minute, thanks.

That was an incredibly reasonable statement, are you saying that Healy, McGrath, Ross, Moore are not the proven best two LH's and TH's in Ireland?

If you agree that they are, then you also by default have to agree that an argument against Bent because he is 3rd best in his province does nothing at all to quantify his ranking nationally, as those ahead of him are also ahead of everyone else.

There is no bias in total formers post. Plenty in this thread mind you, but none in what he wrote.

twinytwo wrote: »

And? its one game. I can show you games where POM/SOB/Healy etc gave away the same or more penos.

Ah ok, well what about the 3 yellow cards last season, all from the scrum.

molloyjh

He's a better scrummager at LH but he's a long way behind Kilcoyne in the loose. If Healy is fit then Bent is ahead of Kilcoyne. If Healy isn't fit then Kilcoyne leap frogs him. What Bent brings to the squad in terms of versatility and freeing up space elsewhere works as 5th prop, but it doesn't make him 3rd choice LH, which is a different thing altogether.

molloyjh

Jesus people, are you all desperate to read the worst possible into each post at the moment? Take a breath, re read what people are writing and see have you interpreted it correctly. Life would be a lot easier here if you do.

Teferi

molloyjh wrote: »

Jesus people, are you all desperate to read the worst possible into each post at the moment? Take a breath, re read what people are writing and see have you interpreted it correctly. Life would be a lot easier here if you do.

No, you're a poopy head.

smiley_face wrote: »

If you mean in the same match then that will prove nothing, if he's used he will most likely be brought on for the last few minutes of a match at one side or the other, and he's already done that, come on towards the end of each of the last 2 matches in each side.

Know that, what I mean is he needs at least 30 minutes on each side, to be sure

molloyjh wrote: »

What Bent brings to the squad in terms of versatility and freeing up space elsewhere works as 5th prop, but it doesn't make him 3rd choice LH, which is a different thing altogether.

They are auditioning for two separate roles,
Bent is being looked at as a utility prop only,
Kilcoyne is being looked at as next best LH-only prop in case Healy can't play.
They're not in competition to start, as I think the LH-only option would be preferred as they are the specialist in that position, whereas the utility prop is supposed to be as evenly sufficient in each position as possible, and can't dedicate himself to one side.
If Kilcoyne and Bent both go then I'd say Kilcoyne will be on the bench with Bent at best coming on to give relief in each of the first two pool matches.

aimee1

connachta wrote: »

Know that, what I mean is he needs at least 30 minutes on each side, to be sure

well he started 5 ECC games last season and played both sides of the scrum and did quite well. So we know what he brings

total former

Wang King wrote: »

Wow ....leaving it there as the provincial bs is overpowering here at the minute, thanks.

It's basic logic.

But it's also irrelevant. Kilcoyne isn't competing with Bent and White isn't competing with Bent, they're only competing with the 5 prop policy.

Bent is the ONLY player who can cover both sides to any sort of level.

connachta wrote: »

Know that, what I mean is he needs at least 30 minutes on each side, to be sure

Ok. I think the opportunity to do that has probably passed by now.
But I agree he should have been given more time in the last two matches.
Perhaps that's all he was comfortable with up to now, hard to say unless you are inside the camp.
He did give an interview recently where he said he's working really hard to be as good as possible on each side, I guess it must be physically very tough to do.

aimee1 wrote: »

well he started 5 ECC games last season and played both sides of the scrum and did quite well. So we know what he brings

Europe for clubs and intenational rugby aren't exactly the same. But look, White has the cap he deserved, and TBH I won't be bothered if he's released to Connacht, could make a differeence for the Westerners

smiley_face wrote: »

Ok. I think the opportunity to do that has probably passed by now.
But I agree he should have been given more time in the last two matches.
Perhaps that's all he was comfortable with up to now, hard to say unless you are inside the camp.
He did give an interview recently where he said he's working really hard to be as good as possible on each side, I guess it must be very physically tough to do.

Understand that, and as I said just above, Bent/White isn't the same waste than Marmion/Boss in an Irish and Connacht perspective. To make it clear, Ireland really needs Marmion IMO, whereas his province could still do ok without him for a month. It's the reverse for Whitey