Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

Buer wrote: »

I can see where you're coming from but I think even his detractors know how good Heaslip is and simply don't like the guy too much; you're not the test Lion two tours in a row and an IRB nominee without being undeniably world class.

RK is someone his detractors don't see what he brings to the table or don't like the type of player he is. Plus, he's not at the level that Heaslip is overall, I reckon.

True, I'd rate Heaslip ahead of Kearney overall as well. Although many of the detractors want Heaslip to burst through tackles etc and want Kearney to slice through defenses in attack. Kearney is a 'boring' and 'solid' choice at 15. But his ability in the air and positioning are world class, and he's not a player an opposition team can target easily. Fingers can be pointed at his counter attacking, his one on one defense and vision for picking a pass, but for the game teams play in the northern hemisphere and we play in Ireland, he's a perfect fit.

One thing I'll always point out when people ask what's his purpose in the team is to think back to our games and try to remember how many times the opposition managed to win territory with a kick to touch. It's a rare sight for that to happen against us which has a huge impact on how our defensive structure can be set.

He's not an exciting full back but he's not in the team to be one.

smiley_face wrote: »

Speak for your self, I disagree for one anyway.

Anyone think Zebo could actually take Kearney's heretofore unchallenged No. 15 Jersey with a good performance?

Zebo replacing Rob Kearney at full back!?

Buer wrote: »

I can see where you're coming from but I think even his detractors know how good Heaslip is and simply don't like the guy too much; you're not the test Lion two tours in a row and an IRB nominee without being undeniably world class.

RK is someone his detractors don't see what he brings to the table or don't like the type of player he is. Plus, he's not at the level that Heaslip is overall, I reckon.

He's still a few levels above Zebo at this point in time though.

total former wrote: »

So, one of the main criticisms of the 2007 world cup preparation was that the starting XV was cast in stone and that the remaining players were disillusioned and unhappy.

Is it any different this time? With the exception of left wing (maybe), no one has any realistic prospect of breaking into the first team.

I know Eddie took it too far with separate training schedules etc, but it would be interesting to know how guys feel knowing they're traveling purely to make up the numbers.

My points on this:

1) Our 15 is set in stone with the exception of left wing because its immediately obvious who are 15 best players are in every position, except left wing. Look at the players in our first XV, and there really isnt a debate over who should be starting in any position except 11. Ruddock over POM is the closest I can get, and thats pushing it and not particularly relevant anymore anyway. Pretty similar story on the bench. What else do you expect really? They are obviously our best players so they will obviously start our important games at the world cup. It would only be an issue if nobody else was getting a look in, which leads me to..

2) Our depth is as good as it has ever been, and the players outside the 15/23 are not just travelling to make up the numbers. The only players reasonably likely to travel (imo at least) who havent been involved in Ireland's last two Six Nations campaigns are Earls, Strauss, D Ryan, and Bent. Thats pretty much every player in the squad who has been involved in 10 games, specifically very important high profile games (and there are more who were involved like TOD, Keatley, DK, McFadden who will probably be left at home). If we make it to the final/3rd place playoff we'll be playing 7 games. Its unfortunate, but injuries are inevitable, and players who arent likely to be involved right now are very likely to be needed at some point. I mean, who wouldnt be surprised if some or all of the 4 I named above as not having played any Six Nations games at all under Schmidt end up playing a big part in the squad for one reason or another? Of our likely squad, I think Bent is the only one who hasnt started a game for Ireland in the last 2 years. As I said, this is the best depth we have ever had, and that isnt just down to the ability of the players involved, Schmidt has managed them very well.

The problem in 2007 wasn't really anything to do with the first choice being unchanged, the problem was that noone else had been getting a look in for quite a while before the competition. The environment wasn't the same as it is now, so much so that when changes were made they were a huge deal (Reddan starting for example). There was major stagnation in the squad whereas I don't think it would be nearly as surprising if Schmidt incorporated somebody new into the squad.

smiley_face wrote: »

Up and under kick chases are not difficult, literally any player that plays in the back 3 positions can kick the ball high and chase the kick.
Impossible to say who is better at drop goals as rarely see them attempted.
Kicking for territory is also hard to compare, but again, it's bread and butter stuff, all players at international level can do it.

You're being extremely simplistic about things. Chasing kicks is not difficult. Actually making an impact and claiming them is. RK is known as one of the top kick catchers in the world and has been for about 7 years now.

Impossible to say who is better at drop goals? No, it's not at all. RK is well known for having a huge boot and being able to strike them well from distance. He doesn't score a lot of them but has popped them over a few times. Neither Zebo nor Jones have ever scored one in their professional careers. I'm sure most of us recall RK's effort against Australia when the game was tied up. Zebo/Jones simply don't have that option in their skill set, very few do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g55Rg4FAwVQ

All players at international level can kick for territory? Have you ever seen Andrew Trimble's kicking from hand? Or Shane Horgan's? Woeful stuff. There's vast differences in their kicking abilities. Zebo has a wonderful left boot. Jones is a conservative kicker from hand and doesn't have a great range. Rob Kearney would be similar to Zebo in terms of distance and accuracy.

So Rob Kearney has been reduced to 1) Up and Unders, 2) Drop Goals 3) Kicking for territory?

This might be a new low for this thread!

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is it unreasonable that I'm irritated by people wearing a Munster jersey to an Irish match...

Perfectly reasonable. I'd say something to the individual if I were you..

Is there less pressure on our bigger players eg Sexton, o connoll, Murray, heaslip etc in these warm up tests because they know there going to be in the world cup squad.