Rogue cyclists set to face on-the-spot fines MOD WARNING in first post

roverrules · 04-08-2015 9:51pm

snailsong wrote: »

I see two people breaking the law in the first picture, with equal menace to public safety. It seems only one of them was booked....

Regardless of the 50m to a crossing point there was no danger or inconvenience caused except to the RLJ, maybe you feel that the pedestrian shouldn't have crossed because of the RLJ?

roverrules · 04-08-2015 9:55pm

roverrules wrote: »

Regardless of the 50m to a crossing point there was no danger or inconvenience caused except to the RLJ, maybe you feel that the pedestrian shouldn't have crossed because of the RLJ?

Is it 50 meters? First found in a search SI is 58 of 1959 which says 50 feet which is circa 15 meters

galwaycyclist · 04-08-2015 9:55pm

Shep_Dog wrote: »

Since when do good manners and civil behaviour have to be justified by injury statistics?

Neither manners nor civility are matters for Fixed Penalty Notices. Both concepts are also highly subjective and culture specific.

You are the one calling for "special disciplinary measures" on what grounds that are relevant to public safety?

Beasty · 04-08-2015 10:10pm

Do not post photos of alleged illegal activity here

Any questions PM me - do not respond in-thread

snailsong · 05-08-2015 12:03am

jon1981 wrote: »

Is that illegal?

Edit: it seems we do have a law that states within 50m. Though not enforced.

Yes, jaywalking near a crossing. Always thought that was illegal but apologies if I'm wrong.

Shep_Dog · 05-08-2015 12:56am

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Neither manners nor civility are matters for Fixed Penalty Notices. Both concepts are also highly subjective and culture specific.
You are the one calling for "special disciplinary measures" on what grounds that are relevant to public safety?

It's a matter of public order. The concepts have been codified and are not at all subjective or 'cultural'.

galwaycyclist · 05-08-2015 6:30am

Shep_Dog wrote: »

It's a matter of public order. The concepts have been codified and are not at all subjective or 'cultural'.

With regret, rubbish. Traffic law is about traffic management and public safety so why don't you provide traffic management or public safety arguments to support your calls for special disciplinary measures?

Chips Lovell · 05-08-2015 6:59am

galwaycyclist wrote: »

He who stays silent is taken to agree

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qui_tacet_consentire_videtur#qui_tacet_consentire_videtur

I think we'd have to disagree on that so. I wouldn't expect them to be issuing statements on relatively minor issues like those.

mackerski · 05-08-2015 4:29pm

Some commentary about the level of enforcement of the fixed penalties - in this evening's rush hour from a building overlooking O'Connell Bridge I was able to witness some very easy pickings for two cycle cops, policing, respectively, the south quays outbound and Westmoreland Street northbound, each standing in hi-viz the far side of the junction.

Whatever people's views might be on the seriousness of red light jumping on a bike, if the offenders couldn't see the fuzz in hi viz, they probably weren't paying much heed to pedestrians on the crossings they whizzed through either.

Either way, looks like the penalties are certainly happening...

eeeee · 05-08-2015 4:33pm

Hmmm since Saturday I have been along the canal to Portobello and Crumlin, repeatedly up and down the N11 (ugh), the Rock Road, out to Dun Laoghaire, up to Stoneybatter, through town several times and I have seen….not one single Garda. Not one. Maybe I'm just lucky?

Beasty · 05-08-2015 5:17pm

gadetra wrote: »

not one single Garda. Not one. Maybe I'm just lucky?

Lucky? Have you been doing things they could have issued FPNs for?

:pac:

eeeee · 05-08-2015 5:38pm

Beasty wrote: »

Lucky? Have you been doing things they could have issued FPNs for?

:pac:

I'm a legal lady your honour!

With all the talk about it I expected to see at least one though. I feel a bit left out! :pac:

GrumpyMe · 05-08-2015 6:08pm

gadetra wrote: »

….not one single Garda. Not one...

Saw one today on Clarandon Row - he cycled out onto South King Street through/past the no entry sign. Two pedestrians apologised for getting in his way as he slowly barged left and proceeded east towards Stephens Green (afaik when open to traffic Sth King Street it is one way westbound). Not satisfied with that he diverted off the "roadway" onto the footpath along in front of the Gaiety...
A fine example of civic minded law enforcement officer!:D

bazermc · 05-08-2015 6:30pm

Is it only a matter of time before FPNs are handed out for cycling while on the phone?

Deedsie · 05-08-2015 6:38pm

bazermc wrote: »

Is it only a matter of time before FPNs are handed out for cycling while on the phone?

Hopefully, as with penalty points with cars I am sure more will be introduced over time.

CramCycle · 05-08-2015 7:06pm

bazermc wrote: »

Is it only a matter of time before FPNs are handed out for cycling while on the phone?

I presume it will be covered under the last one, if you clearly are acting stupid, the phone will give the Garda enough to clarify if you decide to protest to a judge.

Grandpa Hassan · 05-08-2015 10:52pm

CramCycle wrote: »

I presume it will be covered under the last one, if you clearly are acting stupid, the phone will give the Garda enough to clarify if you decide to protest to a judge.

Supposed enforcement doesn't seem to have had much impact on behaviour of drivers.

If a cyclist gets caught it would be pretty embarrassing for the guard to have the offender point out the drivers going by on their phones while the FPN is being written up!

Eamonnator · 05-08-2015 10:55pm

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Supposed enforcement doesn't seem to have had much impact on behaviour of drivers.

If a cyclist gets caught it would be pretty embarrassing for the guard to have the offender point out the drivers going by on their phones while the FPN is being written up!

Yeah, and all the crimes, that are being committed at the same time.

buffalo · 05-08-2015 11:02pm

bazermc wrote: »

Is it only a matter of time before FPNs are handed out for cycling while on the phone?

It'll be a long time. Using a phone on a bicycle isn't illegal, and FPNs were only introduced to cover current offences rather than creating new ones.

They probably should've put it on the leaflet along with the helmet, hi-viz and red spoke reflectors.

tomasrojo · 05-08-2015 11:10pm

Paschal Donoghue did say they would fine people for phone use under the "unreasonable behaviour" offence. I'm not sure this is actually possible though.

Eamonnator · 05-08-2015 11:12pm

buffalo wrote: »

It'll be a long time. Using a phone on a bicycle isn't illegal, and FPNs were only introduced to cover current offences rather than creating new ones.

They probably should've put it on the leaflet along with the helmet, hi-viz and red spoke reflectors.

I'm guessing, using a phone on a bicycle, could be be covered by no. 2:
Driving a pedal cycle, without reasonable consideration.

roverrules · 05-08-2015 11:28pm

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Supposed enforcement doesn't seem to have had much impact on behaviour of drivers.

If a cyclist gets caught it would be pretty embarrassing for the guard to have the offender point out the drivers going by on their phones while the FPN is being written up!

Why would that be, an officer can only deal with people offending sequentially, and as like you'd then be charged with obstructing him from handing you the fpn or some such thing

galwaycyclist · 05-08-2015 11:47pm

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Supposed enforcement doesn't seem to have had much impact on behaviour of drivers.

Yes and no. I remember when Seamus Brennan introduced penalty points in the teeth of opposition from the Garda etc.

There was a transformation in driver behaviour across the country for about a.month. The public took the change on board and reacted much as they dd for the smoking ban.

Then, ever so slowly, reality started to sink in - the "garda" were playing their tried and trusted "blue flu" tactic - also known as "show me the money Seamus" or "no money - no PULSE".

So everyone switched back to business as usual.

colossus-x · 07-08-2015 1:28am

I live in smallish town. It's always very busy with traffic. till 7ish. I can't believe how many times on my particular routes I used to briefly hop up the footpath to let traffic past from behind. At certain traffic light junctions and particularity narrow sports. It feels totally silly I can't do that now and I've only noticed to what extent I used to do it because I'm not doing it now. I feel uncomfortable holding the traffic up , that's why I used to do it in the first place. Cars used to beep their horn when I did that, out of gratitude of course. Oh well.

Tony EH · 07-08-2015 1:54am

You can still hop up onto the path.

Beasty · 07-08-2015 6:50am

Tony EH wrote: »

You can still hop up onto the path.

That was and remains illegal - you risk being dragged to court for that one though

machiavellianme · 07-08-2015 8:43am

Hold them all up, those drivers will soon realise their folly and join you by finally using their bike to work bike on the daily commute.

Leroy42 · 07-08-2015 9:08am

You are not holding anybody up, no more than the traffic lights are, or a truck/bus is.

They may not be getting to go as quickly as they would like, but that is different. You are part of the traffic, hence you are not holding the traffic up.

Drivers need to change their current attitude which seems to regard cyclists as a nuisance impeding on their roads and getting in the way of traffic. Cyclists are a part, and a growing part, of the traffic and drivers need to consider them as such.

Tony EH · 07-08-2015 9:49am

Beasty wrote: »

That was and remains illegal - you risk being dragged to court for that one though

If the choice is dangerous drivers passing within an inch of me or hopping up onto the path for a few seconds, the latter will win every time.

jon1981 · 07-08-2015 9:56am

So yesterday I'm cycling home by my usual route, up the north quays, around by connolly station and on up Amien st..come to a set of pedestrian lights, not a soul there nor a car, 3 cycles zoom past me while I wait like a good little cyclist obeying the new rules..one of them looking back at me like I'm the gobsh*te waiting at a light with no people crossing. Made it worse they then ended up getting the green light after and me getting the red each time!! grrr

Makes me wonder, who is the fool me or them?

kenmc · 07-08-2015 10:11am

Tony EH wrote: »

If the choice is dangerous drivers passing within an inch of me or hopping up onto the path for a few seconds, the latter will win every time.

or you could just learn to cycle more assertively and legally, which would really be best for everyone

Tony EH · 07-08-2015 10:24am

The problem, quite often, has nothing to do with the cyclist.

henryporter · 07-08-2015 10:26am

jon1981 wrote: »

So yesterday I'm cycling home by my usual route, up the north quays, around by connolly station and on up Amien st..come to a set of pedestrian lights, not a soul there nor a car, 3 cycles zoom past me while I wait like a good little cyclist obeying the new rules..one of them looking back at me like I'm the gobsh*te waiting at a light with no people crossing. Made it worse they then ended up getting the green light after and me getting the red each time!! grrr

Makes me wonder, who is the fool me or them?

Them - they will either get a fine eventually or end up getting tangled in an accident of their own making at some point. The idea of the new FPNs is to reinforce better behaviour, which I'm all in favour of (as a cyclist), these clowns just think they are above the law.

Macy0161 · 07-08-2015 12:39pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

You are not holding anybody up, no more than the traffic lights are, or a truck/bus is.

Whilst I wholeheartly agree with taking your lane and driving defensively, and I'm sure in an urban setting as described there is no issue. However, I'm not sure a blanket "cyclists aren't holding up traffic, they are traffic" applies in all circumstances. Tractor drivers have been done for driving without reasonable consideration for causing massive tailbacks, when they are also traffic - this is also one of the offences under cycling fixed penalty notices?

ted1 · 07-08-2015 12:56pm

henryporter wrote: »

Them - they will either get a fine eventually or end up getting tangled in an accident of their own making at some point. The idea of the new FPNs is to reinforce better behaviour, which I'm all in favour of (as a cyclist), these clowns just think they are above the law.

While, Rolling through a pedestrian light, when there is no on crossing is illegal, i would not call it bad behaviour

Leroy42 · 07-08-2015 1:05pm

Macy0161 wrote: »

Whilst I wholeheartly agree with taking your lane and driving defensively, and I'm sure in an urban setting as described there is no issue. However, I'm not sure a blanket "cyclists aren't holding up traffic, they are traffic" applies in all circumstances. Tractor drivers have been done for driving without reasonable consideration for causing massive tailbacks, when they are also traffic - this is also one of the offences under cycling fixed penalty notices?

But what do you want the cyclist to do? Of course cycling three a breast is taking the mickey, but although we hear of stories I know on most club spins etc the group is well controlled with a view to minimising, in as much as possible, three a breast etc.

If, in a rural , or even urban setting, if a car is being held up by a single rider then it is the fault of the road planners and not the fault of the cyclist.

I take the approach that I try to accommodate other road users, but not in any way putting myself out. I don't mean that in a bad way, just that I'm not going to stop of move dangerously close to the edge simply to let them past. I am following the rules as laid down and therefore have as much right as they do. Of course I'm going slower than them, I don't have an engine doing the work for me. However, I am hardly blocking the whole road, so given a small bit of time, if the road is not badly designed, then an oppurtunity will arise that a safe pass can occur.

It is merely a lack of patience on their part that leads to many of the issues.

HivemindXX · 07-08-2015 1:07pm

Tony EH wrote: »

The problem, quite often, has nothing to do with the cyclist.

When you choose to cycle on the footpath the problem is always and entirely with the cyclist.

Footpath cyclists are despicable and I'm certain for the majority their own personal convenience is a far greater motive than their safety. "The bad motorist made me do it" is just a handy excuse for their own bad behaviour and I'm not buying it.

Tony EH · 07-08-2015 1:17pm

HivemindXX wrote: »

When you choose to cycle on the footpath the problem is always and entirely with the cyclist.

Footpath cyclists are despicable and I'm certain for the majority their own personal convenience is a far greater motive than their safety. "The bad motorist made me do it" is just a handy excuse for their own bad behaviour and I'm not buying it.

Again, if the choice between getting clipped by a feckin ejit in a car speeding by you, dangerously, on a dodgy road and hopping onto a path for a few metres is no choice at all.

As a case in point, on my trip to work this morning, a taxi in front of me suddenly decided that he was going to do a U-turn on the St. Circular and pulled into the cycle right in front of me in order to pull right into his illegal U-turn.

I had to mount the path to avoid smacking into the back of him.

sconhome · 07-08-2015 2:01pm

Tony EH wrote: »

Again, if the choice between getting clipped by a feckin ejit in a car speeding by you, dangerously, on a dodgy road and hopping onto a path for a few metres is no choice at all.

As a case in point, on my trip to work this morning, a taxi in front of me suddenly decided that he was going to do a U-turn on the St. Circular and pulled into the cycle right in front of me in order to pull right into his illegal U-turn.

I had to mount the path to avoid smacking into the back of him.

Slightly different senario to the heedless idiots who sail along footpaths oblivious to people who may be stepping out of a shop door for example.

You'd no choice but to bunnyhop onto the path to avoid an accident. I'm sure you didn't stay there for the rest of your journey (?)

Tony EH · 07-08-2015 2:09pm

I'm not talking about people flying down footpaths bashing into people.

My response was to:

I live in smallish town. It's always very busy with traffic. till 7ish. I can't believe how many times on my particular routes I used to briefly hop up the footpath to let traffic past from behind. At certain traffic light junctions and particularity narrow sports. It feels totally silly I can't do that now and I've only noticed to what extent I used to do it because I'm not doing it now. I feel uncomfortable holding the traffic up , that's why I used to do it in the first place. Cars used to beep their horn when I did that, out of gratitude of course. Oh well.

At times hopping onto the footpath is safer for the cyclist and is a far better scenario than risking being struck by some gobshite in a car that doesn't give a fuk.

I've been cycling the streets of Dublin for decades and there have been numerous occasions where I've had to hop up onto a footpath.

buffalo · 07-08-2015 2:27pm

Tony EH wrote: »

I've been cycling the streets of Dublin for decades and there have been numerous occasions where I've hadchosen to hop up onto a footpath, and reinforce the perception that cyclists don't belong on the road

FYP? Have you ever ever contacted the local council or roads department about the sections that you feel are dangerous? Or the Gardaí about dangerous behaviour?

Alanstrainor · 07-08-2015 2:29pm

7600km in the last year and a half through Dublin city centre, no trouble, never had to jump onto a path. Must be luck I guess...

Tony EH · 07-08-2015 2:53pm

It must be.

Your mileage may vary, as the Yanks say.

JBokeh · 07-08-2015 3:14pm

Tony EH wrote: »

If the choice is dangerous drivers passing within an inch of me or hopping up onto the path for a few seconds, the latter will win every time.

I'm with you on this to an extent, I do the same on rural roads with grass in the middle of them, but in the city it's a bit pointless because traffic is slow anyway, I'm not a well seasoned urban cyclist so I still feel a bit of a dick if i've built up a line of cars behind me, but at the same time know there's shag all progress they'll make if they pass me

Since I was let loose on my own on the country roads at the tender age of around 11 i've been moving in for cars that come up behind me, I just cycle through the reveal of a gate, and in the time i've done that a car will have passed me, on roads like that people could be caught behind you for miles on end. I know i'm entitled to do otherwise, but I don't feel the need to

I went downhilling in Morzine and when you're coming down the roads at some scary speeds cars will actually pull in to the right to leave you pass, it's an awesome feeling knowing that another person on the road acknowledges you're faster than them and allows you to bomb on through. Not really relevant but put in to avoid someone saying you don't see cars getting out the way of bikes, why should bikes get out the way of cars

Tenzor07 · 07-08-2015 3:46pm

Interesting!

https://twitter.com/RadioCleary/status/629599802771292161/photo/1

cython · 07-08-2015 4:00pm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Interesting!

https://twitter.com/RadioCleary/status/629599802771292161/photo/1

Not really, since Gardai are exempt from most if not all of the Road Traffic Act in the pursuit of their duties.

Eamonnator · 07-08-2015 4:11pm

cython wrote: »

Not really, since Gardai are exempt from most if not all of the Road Traffic Act in the pursuit of their duties.

Not all.
Gardai are not exempt from dangerous driving, careless driving, driving without due care and attention, drunk driving etc. And while they would be exempt from the offence of cycling on the footpath, they might be liable to driving without consideration. In the case, where there are no pedestrians on the footpath, I don't imagine, there is any offence.

Not a doctor

check_six · 07-08-2015 4:25pm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Interesting!

https://twitter.com/RadioCleary/status/629599802771292161/photo/1

Look, we all know the Guards can do whatever they like in pursuit of their duties. The pursuit bit doesn't mean chasing down a bad guy, it can just mean patrolling around.

I can't see any problem with this pair rolling down the footpath. I wouldn't be bothered if I was walking on the path there either. They are on bikes. Small agile vehicles going very slowly.

I saw a pair of Cycle-Guards roll through a red and take a turn onto Jervis St from a side street earlier on today. Didn't see any issue there either. They took the turn with care and consideration for other road users and pedestrians, they just happened to do it with a red lamp in front of them.

check_six · 07-08-2015 4:27pm

Having said that, I did nearly get run over by a guard in a car on the way to the Spar who ran a red and swung across my path. Didn't think that was too smart!

buffalo · 07-08-2015 7:37pm

cython wrote: »

Not really, since Gardai are exempt from most if not all of the Road Traffic Act in the pursuit of their duties.

I passed an unoccupied Garda car parked on the double yellow lines opposite the Criminal Courts last night. The driver was inside the nearby chipper. I presume eating is part of their duties?

Rogue cyclists set to face on-the-spot fines MOD WARNING in first post

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