Rogue cyclists set to face on-the-spot fines MOD WARNING in first post

eeeee

Oh FFS. That fcuking poster :mad: :mad:

johnk123

Saw them doing the same around leeson st corner of the Green around lunchtime yesterday. I walked over and asked for one and was told by the guard in question that they are going to have to try and make a serious push before people start getting killed on bikes. We proceeded to chat for a minute until the light turned red again. Nice chap and my grasp of the situation was that they had to start showing a garda presence on the situation. I asked would they really be handing out the fines, and he reassured me they would.

rp

traprunner wrote: »

€40 a pop. Guard sees a cyclist not using a bike lane even though it's full of pot holes...that could be classed as cycling without reasonable consideration.

It would be like fining motorists causing traffic jams, for driving without consideration, if there is a bus or train they could have taken

Jawgap

johnk123 wrote: »

Saw them doing the same around leeson st corner of the Green around lunchtime yesterday. I walked over and asked for one and was told by the guard in question that they are going to have to try and make a serious push before people start getting killed on bikes. We proceeded to chat for a minute until the light turned red again. Nice chap and my grasp of the situation was that they had to start showing a garda presence on the situation. I asked would they really be handing out the fines, and he reassured me they would.

Thus, it seems, reinforcing the idea that the 'cause' of any cyclist death is always going to be the cyclist's behaviour.

My own view is that the Guards will only start doing cyclist safety seriously when one of their own gets seriously hurt. Then they might start to look at the issues with a bit more imagination.

shansey

I'll just take the f3ckin car from now on..

What about all the Dublin bikes.. not a helmet in sight.

rubadub

tunney wrote: »

No because there is no requirement to use them.

Presuming like FPN there will be an appeals process

I guess the gardai can still argue it, whether its specifically stated or not, its like the public order offences I mentioned, very vague and covers stuff which is not in the law.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/public_order_offenses_in_ireland.html

A typical example of this offence would be people shouting late at night having left nightclubs where this would cause serious annoyance to local residents.

I doubt there is a spefic law about shouting, or decibel limits for shouting etc.

Some might just pay the fine rather than go through the hassle of appeals, and this might set a precedent.

Actually a cycle hating garda could already do you for it.

Wilful obstruction
Under Section 9 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 anyone without legal authority or reasonable excuse, wilfully prevents or interrupts the free passage of any person or vehicle in any public place shall be guilty of an offence.

Lombardo86

I believe i seen a guard issuing a fine to a cyclist who took a left turn (wrongly) from south quays onto parliament street the other day - so i think they may be handing them out if you are unlucky enough to be caught. Not just for helmets etc.

check_six

CramCycle wrote: »

You can tell it was produced by the RSA for many reasons including but not limited too:
- factually incorrect
- no proofreading for errors
- over emphasis on helmets and hi vis
- not run by someone with knowledge of the legislation


It also has lance armstrong riding a poorly fitting and cheap MTB , all very confusing

I'm flabbergasted by that poster. I cannot fathom who okayed that to be released into the public domain. I can only assume that the thing was put together by someone doing a summer work experience placement and they threw it together in such a slipshod manner as some kind of practical joke to see just how far they could push the envelope.

The incongruous picture with the hi-vis and helmet seems only incidentally to picture a cyclist for all the relevance it has to the text underneath. You could have replaced the flyout text from the image with alternatives: "Neural-Net Processor", "Flux Capacitor", "Death Ray Emitter", etc. and it would be as relevant.

Even little details like the red and white spoke reflectors in the wheels are just so wrong they had to have been put there deliberately as some kind of wind-up. You'd like to hope this poster was proposed as some kind of test to weed out some lunatic in the RSA but it looks like the madmen are running the asylum there.

Real life people will read that and think that the picture and the text are related, and why wouldn't they? The RSA and the Guards have rubberstamped the thing. Incredible! Unbelievable! Blarrrgh!

check_six

Lombardo86 wrote: »

Not just for helmets etc.

Arrrrgh! It's started already!

Here is a perfect example of a real life human being bamboozled by that stupid poster already!

Helmets are not legally required to cycle a bike, despite all appearances to the contrary on that poster!

RainyDay

seamus wrote: »

I wonder if that was produced by someone trying to be a good helpful citizen rather than by the RSA or Gardai?

Only if the 'good helpful citizen' was in 6th class primary school.

rubadub wrote: »

The "reasonable consideration" is the big worry. We have all heard stories of pig ignorant gardai stopping people in the past and asking where there helmets or hi viz is, thinking it was the law. Now these gardai will see this sign and think it is the case. But the "reasonable consideration" gives them a chance to save face, since when the cyclist says

"eh its not the law to have a helmet, can you please state the the law regarding helmets?"

-"don't get schmart with me bucko, because you have no helmet I don't think you are cycling with reasonable consideration so I am doing you for that"

It's like the incredible vague public order offence law that came in a few years back, which allowed them to do you for all sorts.

Get a helmetcam. You can choose to go to Court for any dodgy FPNs.

Rogue-Trooper

gadetra wrote: »

Oh FFS. That fcuking poster :mad: :mad:

Amen to that.

I'm not usually one to pen strongly worded letters to anyone but I've just dispatched one to The RSA regarding that flyer.

Incidentally, they have a myriad of contacts on their website but none that pertain to cycling or anything other than vehicles. They don't make it easy.....

buffalo

Rogue-Trooper wrote: »

Amen to that.

I'm not usually one to pen strongly worded letters to anyone but I've just dispatched one to The RSA regarding that flyer.

Incidentally, they have a myriad of contacts on their website but none that pertain to cycling or anything other than vehicles. They don't make it easy.....

I'm not usually one to pen strongly worded letters either*, but I sent one to the media dept of the RSA this morning.


*I kid, I kid!

rubadub

RainyDay wrote: »

Get a helmetcam. You can choose to go to Court for any dodgy FPNs.

I have no helmet, thats the problem! :pac:

RainyDay

rubadub wrote: »

I have no helmet, thats the problem! :pac:

Bodycam? Handlebar cam? Lots of options...

check_six

rubadub wrote: »

I have no helmet, thats the problem! :pac:

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Simply strap the large awkward apparatus to your shoulders as you cycle to have a handy place to store any fixed charge notices you acquire of over the course of the day.

Now available in Eeezy Board (tm) Deluxe, which incorporates a picture of a bicycle bell!

Yours for only €99.99!

traprunner

Jawgap wrote: »

Take from that €40 the cost of administering each fine, the cost of prosecuting the minority who decline to pay and the cost of following up on dodgers, etc

That's even before you look at the opportunity cost of having a Guard monitor a cycle lane.

It'll be periodically enforced, but it won't be a revenue stream for the Guards, I reckon most Guards will run a mile from having to routinely issue these tickets.

Don't they have civilians to do the processing? It's simple data entry that should only take a couple of minutes each.

I hope when they are enforcing the new laws that they are also keeping an eye out for cars etc breaking lights etc.

Jawgap

Lombardo86 wrote: »

I believe i seen a guard issuing a fine to a cyclist who took a left turn (wrongly) from south quays onto parliament street the other day - so i think they may be handing them out if you are unlucky enough to be caught. Not just for helmets etc.

You didn't.

But thanks for playing.

Jawgap

traprunner wrote: »

Don't they have civilians to do the processing? It's simple data entry that should only take a couple of minutes each.

I hope when they are enforcing the new laws that they are also keeping an eye out for cars etc breaking lights etc.

Pesky civilians looking to be paid.

It's more than just data entry as the charge / ticket has to be recorded and validated in such a way as to allow for future prosecution.

Simply put, as annoying and all as the offences covered by the new scheme might be they are trivial in the overall scheme of things. Meaning Guards will only do cyclists when instructed to as part of a campaign or when they witness a truly egregious dickhead manoeuvre.

The rest if the time they'll be more interested in things like policing.

Grandpa Hassan

johnk123 wrote: »

Saw them doing the same around leeson st corner of the Green around lunchtime yesterday. I walked over and asked for one and was told by the guard in question that they are going to have to try and make a serious push before people start getting killed on bikes. We proceeded to chat for a minute until the light turned red again. Nice chap and my grasp of the situation was that they had to start showing a garda presence on the situation. I asked would they really be handing out the fines, and he reassured me they would.

This is just the flavour of the month. They'll soon realise, quite rightly, that they have better things to be doing

tomasrojo

In relation to the poster, I think one of the problems with the RSA is that they don't seem to be able to stop mixing public information with campaigning.

tomasrojo

http://irishcycle.com/2015/07/22/cycling-fines-will-not-cover-bicycle-helmets-or-high-vis-says-gardai/

I rather agree with the call in the comments to overhaul the RSA.

(But thanks for the one good advert about sharing the road.)

buffalo

tomasrojo wrote: »

http://irishcycle.com/2015/07/22/cycling-fines-will-not-cover-bicycle-helmets-or-high-vis-says-gardai/

I rather agree with the call in the comments to overhaul the RSA.

(But thanks for the one good advert about sharing the road.)

The RSA told me An Garda developed the poster.

Eamonnator

The reflector on the rear wheel, in that poster, is actually illegal.
If there are wheel reflectors on a bike, they should be amber, not red, in colour.

tomasrojo

Eamonnator wrote: »

The reflector on the rear wheel, in that poster, is actually illegal.
If there are wheel reflectors on a bike, they should be amber, not red, in colour.

I vaguely remember that most seat post-mounted rear lights are too far from the back of the bike to meet the law too.

(4) A rear lamp fitted to a cycle shall—
[...]
(c) be fitted—
[...]
(iii) so that it is not more than 20 inches from the extreme rear of the cycle.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88726862&postcount=1

Pinch Flat

johnk123 wrote: »

Saw them doing the same around leeson st corner of the Green around lunchtime yesterday. I walked over and asked for one and was told by the guard in question that they are going to have to try and make a serious push before people start getting killed on bikes. We proceeded to chat for a minute until the light turned red again. Nice chap and my grasp of the situation was that they had to start showing a garda presence on the situation. I asked would they really be handing out the fines, and he reassured me they would.

I pass this corner daily and the cycle lane is constantly blocked in the morning and at school finish during school term (Loretto School across the road). Double parking is not unusual, and I've witnessed triple parking on more than one occasion.

Written complaints to the gardai, including photos of the repeat offenders' cars, on foot of a cyclist being hit by an car while trying to avoid these illegally parked cars, was met with apathy. Dublin city council parking enforcement, who I also contacted, failed to reply to my email. So let's hope this increased garda presence has the impact on bringing all errant road users into line.

galwaycyclist

tomasrojo wrote: »

I vaguely remember that most seat post-mounted rear lights are too far from the back of the bike to meet the law too.


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88726862&postcount=1

Yep regarding rear lamps from the 1963 lighting of vehicles regulations - which still apply

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1963/en/si/0189.html#zzsi189y1963a24

8) (a) The lamp fitted to a bicycle shall be so fitted that it is not more than 20 inches from the extreme rear of the vehicle.

Edit: This is also where you will find the stipulation that reflectors visible from the side must be amber (although an exception is made for pedal reflectors - which dont seem to compulsory -in my reading)

Burning Bridges

tomasrojo wrote: »

http://irishcycle.com/2015/07/22/cycling-fines-will-not-cover-bicycle-helmets-or-high-vis-says-gardai/

I rather agree with the call in the comments to overhaul the RSA.

(But thanks for the one good advert about sharing the road.)

Whats is the difference between rule 4 and rule 7?

Tony EH

Jawgap wrote: »

Thus, it seems, reinforcing the idea that the 'cause' of any cyclist death is always going to be the cyclist's behaviour.

My own view is that the Guards will only start doing cyclist safety seriously when one of their own gets seriously hurt. Then they might start to look at the issues with a bit more imagination.

It's not really the Gardai's fault though.

The blame for this nonsense lies with politicians enacting cheap legislation on an easy target to placate moaning twats, as opposed to actually using their position to do something really useful.

I honestly cannot see too many Gardai being that bothered at all about this rubbish.

Victor

Interesting that two versions of the poster were created.

Eamonnator

Not one of the six things, that are highlighted in that poster are mandatory, during daylight hours.