Rogue cyclists set to face on-the-spot fines MOD WARNING in first post

check_six

magicbastarder wrote: »

while i'd prefer he knew that cyclists can travel two abreast, he's a minister, not a barrister.

I don't expect the Health Minister to perform Heart Surgery, but if the Transport Minister goes on the airwaves to introduce a new set of FPN regulations for cyclists, then I expect him to know what he is talking about and not just roll up and start spoofing!

He's the one introducing the legislation to the Dail for heaven's sake!

septictank

He's on with George at the moment, spot fines to be used and bikes to be confiscated if false address or name given.

ThisRegard

magicbastarder wrote: »

while i'd prefer he knew that cyclists can travel two abreast, he's a minister, not a barrister.

But a minister with responsibility in this area, and having just looked into legislating it. Plus this was also discussed on yesterdays show and it came up, someone should have briefed him about what was likely to come up today.

Eamonnator

Waterford Whispers take on the FPNs


http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/07/02/wwn-guide-on-how-to-avoid-new-cycling-fines/

LollipopJimmy

mcgratheoin wrote: »

How? Cyclist behaviour is a minor factor in cycling injuries when compared to driver behaviour. Explain to me how FPNs for cyclists will improve the poor behaviour of drivers that leads to the majority of incidents?


Well done for avoiding a cyclist, you must be a great driver.

Drivers can get FPN's too. Drivers need to follow the rules if the roads they use. I would like to see cyclists following these same rules and that means everybody is on the same page. Driving from Baggot Street to Daviot Road on the canal I usually encounter a cyclists going across one of the bridges and breaking the lights, all of these are roats out of the city center leading ton the southside. I do have a problem with that because I first and foremost don't want to hit a cyclist and second I don't want to be hit from behind by the person behind me. So yes an FPN for breaking lights will hopefully resolve this. I'm not bashing cyclists myself. I do like to get on my own bike but I will obey lights.


I never said I was a great driver but I had to use evasive action to avoid parking on top of this guy. That's not right. There are assholes on bikes and in cars. I for one want us all on the same page

Grandpa Hassan

I'd say the gardai are thrilled about this....a bunch of legislation that they have absolutely zero interest in enforcing.

Beasty

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

I'd say the gardai are thrilled about this....a bunch of legislation that they have absolutely zero interest in enforcing.

There's very little new legislation, and that's all about enforcement - these new rules simply make it easier to enforce existing laws. They may not go overboard in using their new powers, but as has been said repeatedly it's a much better option than dragging someone to court

ted1

I wish we could have progressive laws here. Like allowing to turn on red but why due care.
Also I really don't see the issue with going up a one way lane , your facing oncoming vehicles and it's only one way cause cars are so blessing big.

I really do think that they should target adults using footpaths when there is a safe road or cycle path.

Shakakan

4. Cyclist proceeding past traffic lights when the red lamp is illuminated. €40

5. Cyclist proceeding past cycle traffic lights when red lamp is lit. €40

A lot of people seem to suggest that it should be ok to proceed past a red light when it's safe to do so...

The trouble is that not every road user is as diligent as they should be. People would make mistakes, take risks etc.... :rolleyes:

wtlltw

ted1 wrote: »

I wish we could have progressive laws here. Like allowing to turn on red but why due care.

Witnessed enough to cyclists just going for it over the last few days, even when the traffic was moving from the other junctions. Yes it's fine to move ahead on a simple crossing but at a major junction etc no point trusting your judgement, especially when some of the recent ones are pretty poor.

LollipopJimmy

ted1 wrote: »

I wish we could have progressive laws here. Like allowing to turn on red but why due care.

That's the dream. But even undertaking in a car is illegal here. It's legal in Germany so you expect it and look out for it. Here it's illegal so drivers don't expect it.

RainyDay

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

Drivers can get FPN's too. Drivers need to follow the rules if the roads they use. I would like to see cyclists following these same rules and that means everybody is on the same page. Driving from Baggot Street to Daviot Road on the canal I usually encounter a cyclists going across one of the bridges and breaking the lights, all of these are roats out of the city center leading ton the southside. I do have a problem with that because I first and foremost don't want to hit a cyclist and second I don't want to be hit from behind by the person behind me. So yes an FPN for breaking lights will hopefully resolve this. I'm not bashing cyclists myself. I do like to get on my own bike but I will obey lights.

How many drivers to you see breaking the speed limit on that journey? Or on their phones?

monument

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

I'd say the gardai are thrilled about this....a bunch of legislation that they have absolutely zero interest in enforcing.

Around 300 people on bicycles who broke red lights were brought to court in Dublin in 2013 alone.

You can well expect that figure to be exceeded when it comes to handing out on-the-spot fines for the same.

ted1 wrote: »

I wish we could have progressive laws here. Like allowing to turn on red but why due care.
Also I really don't see the issue with going up a one way lane , your facing oncoming vehicles and it's only one way cause cars are so blessing big.

I really do think that they should target adults using footpaths when there is a safe road or cycle path.

Going up a larger one way streets which is not designed with contra-flow cycling is a danger to other cyclists as the motorist will see you but not see the cyclist to his or her left and will move or swerve left to avoid you and end up hitting the other cyclist.

check_six wrote: »

There's a Minister on top of his brief! :eek:

There may be some departmental error with this -- using cycle lanes is on the list of 36 offences which could and still in future could be included in the on-the-spot fines system.

Whoever drafted the list also included the amended offence ("Failure to drive a pedal cycle on a contra-flow cycle track, and in a contra-flow direction") as a separate entry.

They must of somehow missed the fact that the amended section removes/overrides the section of the same number in the older legislation.

Tony EH

wtlltw wrote: »

Witnessed enough to cyclists just going for it over the last few days, even when the traffic was moving from the other junctions. Yes it's fine to move ahead on a simple crossing but at a major junction etc no point trusting your judgement, especially when some of the recent ones are pretty poor.

Nobody should be breaking a red on a junction regardless and the vast, vast majority don't and anyone who continually does, won't be doing it for too long.

Just tonight on the cycle home, I and several others stopped at a red light at a junction. There were two of us cyclists side by side, me on the right. Then a motorbike came along and positioned himself to my right, in front of the car that was at the head of the traffic behind us. The light goes green, we start off and the car at the front of the traffic tries to accelerate around the motorbike, driving over the centre line an into oncoming traffic in a very dangerous manner. :eek:

Crazy stuff.

wtlltw

RainyDay wrote: »

How many drivers to you see breaking the speed limit on that journey? Or on their phones?

Re read the post, it's not about breaking speed limits or phones ; )

wtlltw

Tony EH wrote: »

Nobody should be breaking a red on a junction regardless and the vast, vast majority don't and anyone who continually does, won't be doing it for too long.

Just tonight on the cycle home, I and several others stopped at a red light at a junction. There were two of us cyclists side by side, me on the right. Then a motorbike came along and positioned himself to my right, in front of the car that was at the head of the traffic behind us. The light goes green, we start off and the car at the front of the traffic tries to accelerate around the motorbike, driving over the centre line an into oncoming traffic in a very dangerous manner. :eek:

Crazy stuff.

Yeah but you always get a risk taker.

Was in Sandyford earlier today and witnessed a twit in a van (won't say who)who refused to indicate. Thankfully the cyclist in cycle lane read the road ahead and let him turn left into a side road. Two manoeuvres later with no indication he was still plodding along oblivious to anyone else around him!!

DirkVoodoo

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

Driving from Baggot Street to Daviot Road on the canal I usually encounter a cyclists going across one of the bridges and breaking the lights, all of these are roats out of the city center leading ton the southside.

Funny that. Cycling through Leeson street or Baggot street and I see lots of:

speeding
double parking on baggot street on double yellow lines or in the cycle lane outside tesco
u-turns on baggot street

The worst I've seen has to be the top of Waterloo road leading onto Leeson street. I was stopped there for 20 minutes on my bike one day and EVERY change of lights some muppets would be slightly ahead of the red light but far back enough not to need to proceed onto Leeson street, yet they did it anyway.

The problem isn't the rules, it's the enforcement. I'd like to see the powers that be placing Gardai at dangerous intersections in the city (like that recent youtube video caused) and not at easy targets to generate fines.

Tony EH

wtlltw wrote: »

Yeah but you always get a risk taker.

He took a risk because he let frustration get the better of him, which is where this moany motorist crap about cyclists comes from.

As I said earlier, and I'm pretty serious too, motorists are only going to be MORE frustrated by a bunch of cyclists stopping at every single red than not, especially at empty pedestrian crossings.

I can picture it now. A bunch of cars and a some cyclists in front at a T junction. All stopped at a red light, with no cars coming along the T part of the road. The cyclist COULD move on and take a left or right, if the traffic was clear and there was no danger. But now has to wait until the green appears, then they move on, naturally slower than the cars behind. What happens is that where perhaps 5 or 6 cars will get through onto the T part of the junction, now perhaps only 3 or 4 will, driving everyone stuck at the T Junction nuts, creating more frustration and bottled up anger making the roads less safe.

:pac:

wtlltw

Tony EH wrote: »

He took a risk because he let frustration get the better of him, which is where this moany motorist crap about cyclists comes from.

As I said earlier, and I'm pretty serious too, motorists are only going to be MORE frustrated by a bunch of cyclists stopping at every single red than not, especially at empty pedestrian crossings.

I can picture it now. A bunch of cars and a some cyclists in front at a T junction. All stopped at a red light, with no cars coming along the T part of the road. The cyclist COULD move on and take a left or right, if the traffic was clear and there was no danger. But now has to wait until the green appears, then they move on, naturally slower than the cars behind. What happens is that where perhaps 5 or 6 cars will get through onto the T part of the junction, now perhaps only 3 or 4 will, driving everyone stuck at the T Junction nuts, creating more frustration and bottled up anger making the roads less safe.

:pac:

That's all good and fine, but go through Ranelagh, clonskeagh, Rock Road etc any morning and traffic filtering from side roads rely on the traffic lights to let this happen. What you get instead is a mess between motorists preventing anyone joining the traffic and a constant flow of cyclists, even when the lights are red!

And then we wonder why everyone is frustrated lol

Tony EH

I go through Ranelegh and Clonskeagh every morning and evening.

galwaycyclist

Tony EH wrote: »

I can picture it now. A bunch of cars and a some cyclists in front at a T junction. All stopped at a red light, with no cars coming along the T part of the road. The cyclist COULD move on and take a left or right, if the traffic was clear and there was no danger. But now has to wait until the green appears, then they move on, naturally slower than the cars behind. What happens is that where perhaps 5 or 6 cars will get through onto the T part of the junction, now perhaps only 3 or 4 will, driving everyone stuck at the T Junction nuts, creating more frustration and bottled up anger making the roads less safe.

:pac:

What about when the cyclists are stopped on red in the "car only" sensor loops? In that case the lights will not change for anyone. The queues of cars behind the cyclists will just keep getting longer.


(This is already happening in Galway)

Tony EH

Ah...it's going to be hilarious.

RainyDay

wtlltw wrote: »

Re read the post, it's not about breaking speed limits or phones ; )

I'm well aware what the post is about. It's about another attempt to demonize cyclists as a gang of unruly law-breakers with no context.

ted1

wtlltw wrote: »

Witnessed enough to cyclists just going for it over the last few days, even when the traffic was moving from the other junctions. Yes it's fine to move ahead on a simple crossing but at a major junction etc no point trusting your judgement, especially when some of the recent ones are pretty poor.

I'm saying turn left ( so hugging the side of the road )not blowing straight throw it.

mcgratheoin

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

So yes an FPN for breaking lights will hopefully resolve this.

Did you see the statistics on how often a cyclist breaking a red light is a contributory factor in accidents?

cdaly_

Saw quite a few bikes stopping at traffic lights yesterday evening and this morning. Still quite a few running the lights though.


On a related question, how are they going to interpret the Wooden Bridge junction in Clontarf? The bike lane runs parallel to the road but drops you mid-junction (beyond the light and ped crossing) of the side road. If the light is green for the main road, it appears to be green for the bike lane's direction but you're crossing opposing traffic while if the light is green for the side road, there's a red light facing the bike lane and you would be crossing traffic with a green. I'll be interested to see what the judge makes of that...

https://goo.gl/maps/QzrxG

magicbastarder

fact: red lights do not apply to you if you are doing a wheelie.

buffalo

cdaly_ wrote: »

On a related question, how are they going to interpret the Wooden Bridge junction in Clontarf?

I brought this anomaly to the attention of Dublin City Council - the fact that at the end of the best cycleway in Dublin, there's seemingly no legal way to exit without a dismount, and was told:

"This junction/cycle crossing in question is due to be dealt with in the upcoming Part 8 for S2S Interim works. This proposal will effictively link up the section of off road cycle track which stops at the wooden Bridge to the Causeway Road. A new toucan crossing is proposed at the Wooden Bridge junction. A preliminary Design has been done for the proposal and was presented to the Area Committee. It is hoped to proceed to Part 8 with a view to construction in the Spring 2013."

cf: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=83520869

mcgratheoin

SpaceTime wrote: »

Some people really need to learn how to cycle and use roads.

I was driving along yesterday and a cyclist on the opposite side of the road decided to suddenly cycle straight across a pedestrian zebra crossing to do a U Turn

He just turned straight across my path, no warnings, no hand signals, no yielding ... Just cycling along one direction and then swoop across a pedestrian crossing!

Then looked angrily at the traffic because people had to slam on!

Because he didn't give the traffic any warning and was moving much faster than a pedestrian he nearly got killed.

I saw a [insert vehicle type here] do something incredibly stupid yesterday.

Seriously, what is the point of this post?

SpaceTime

mcgratheoin wrote: »

I saw a [insert vehicle type here] do something incredibly stupid yesterday.

Seriously, what is the point of this post?

Illustration of the fact that a % of cyclists urgently need basic road use lessons and there needs to be some threat of enforcement!