Cork GAA Discussion Thread

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/jim-mcguinness-cork-victims-of-flawed-all-ireland-championship-format-1.2298938

I rate McGuinness hugely but he's just giving one side coin here
Id say the county board and cuthbhertt are now having mcguimness as they're hero
Article like that they will use new term
Mcguimness you would imagine as articulate as he's in gaa and outstanding coach would know don't judge fully or put case for cork when he admits he doesn't know cuthbhertt coaching or tactics very well

Ah now Jim let's be fair
Cork as joe brolly said game plan was flawed from day one, played running game and surely to Christ him being best blanket coach around knows too well you love teams run at you
Colm Driscoll Barry driscoll and kerrigan brolly pointed out there times turnover as Cork ran in to cule de sacs
It's not the fault the players as they were asked play that game
None of the three can play different style
Management surely knew Kildare blanket was causing cork problem

Mcguimness surely know loughrey time Antrim making ulster team is not a corner back and statics showed v kerry he was dominated in possession and league final v Dublin and of course many other games
He would do well to come down to cork and ask nemo Rangers where Barry driscoll best positions is
For a manager that decided and devised brilliant link play defence to attack surely he realised cork v kerry last year, Mayo , parts league games particularly against Donegal in Donegal bar Murphy sending off Cork were one dimensions and laboured and no idea break down a blanket defence

He cherry picks cork scores highest league with out realising ten goals got that was false dawns in kerry forget about the three goals kerry don't care about the league
So taking that out of the equation seven goals hardly great
Now fair enough he's fast to say about the scoring why does he fail to highlight the defence being the worst outside kerry league in group stages and after it v Donegal, Dublin, Dublin challenge game in pissing wet in cork, armagh challenge games, Mayo and Galway all conceded huge scores in the lead up to championship

Clare we conceded high score considering they had five forwards out and four goals chances
Kildare ripped cork apart at ease the last day and playing week later fair enough tired minds tired bodies but management knew that was likely and should played lads best positions and made few changes

He picks out the wins in the league as some sort of gratification for cork
Come on now jimmmy your great manager don't look at results with out looking at the performance
I'll prove he's cherry picking

Dublin win as stoner Dublin poster said ist league game in cork Dublin had their b team missing around eight regulars and Dublin were changing their system and only training since January as all ireland semi but Cork training since November
Mayo was a smash and grab at home won by point despite being dominated by mayo midfield
Monaghan was late smash grab o Neill brilliant and monaghan as mcguimness himself ironically said only last week monaghan only interest all year was Donegal from the ist training sessions
Cork had put huge focus in the league
Tyrone I agree and always said it was great win as we actually have given a performance to match the results

The point I really dismissed he's article when he mentioned cork four goals v Donegal in semi league as never happened before
Is he actually for real or just having a laugh
Christ above dog on the street knows Donegal didn't give a monkey about that game, brolly said many times after Donegal had brutal training session Thursday night with Tyrone three week later in mind and reward by Gallagher was no system play v Cork just play freedom
Even Donegal thread fan said when Donegal went ahead second half he got worried
Ist half was even then Donegal didn't want to win as no benefit of playing Dublin then Tyrone looming
Gallagher said himself after game focus was Tyrone
So forget about Donegal just like kerry league was false false dawns
Donegal away home beat Cork and didn't conceded four goals that proves the point
Donegal as proven in championship and Cork have proven Donegal suddenly weren't that far decreased or cork greatly improved from league game to semi final league where got four goals
Bottom line is Donegal didn't want to win

Brolly right cork are a league team when their in comfort zone and no pressure, teams off fitness a bit, no real intensity bar few games cork look good

League showed consistently all year defence was appalling, cork play to no system of link defence to attack bar running like rugby league team in to traffic, no varied kick passing to play the width of the ptich, no idea how to defend their zones in they defend men rather than mark space
Mcguimness weak before gave outstanding article on monaghan playing short kick passing to open up Donegal
Has he lost that point in translation as if he look at cork all that they do is run run run and hand passing backwards

He dismisses eleven point loss to Dublin without engaging in why did cork loose
Well Jim cork lost as unlike any team cork faced in the league Dublin brought intensity as they had win the league with poor leinster championship and they attacked cork week feeble game plan when they pushed up on Cork short kick outs and dominate at midfield
They then blanket style turned cork over at will while they counters with guile cohesion creativity and pace and ripped cork defence apart

Yes he's right o connor was loss Saturday
But Cork would still have lost as connor winning ball they still wouldn't attacked
Barry Donovan said article echo all league and after drawn game kerry hurley o Neill etc get no ball
Mcguimness with only Murphy for years got him the ball
Can he not see cork forwards don't get enough ball as just look o Neill and hurley scoring from play
Yet mcguimness says he doesn't know about cork tactics how good they are
With respect pull the other leg Jim your intelligent football man surely he sees looking at the stats that problem cork inside line getting fast ball

Mcguimness fails to see cork dont change from the ist game
Yes kerry yerra said deserves loose ist day
But again no one fails realise this was not the real kerry and I guarantee the same fifteen started that game kerry won't start rest championship
Murphy geaney maher and mahony all had great games in the replay against cork
Surely it's possible to say that if cork won wasn't against best kerry team who fitness fitzmaurice said below par as just weeks home warm weather camp

Ask this question
If kerry treated cork real danger would they put warm weather camp back til the summer and would they started that team
Replay proved it kerry like I said after game had a meeting of team and fitzmaurice got fair old truth spoken in too complacent and too arrogant to cork as they didn't treat them seriously and he wanted build panel depth
No one wanted kerry easy game and o se who is shrewd intentionality tried rise cork performance by speaking truth
Normally kerry tell you your great
He just was honest this time

Fitzmaurice got a fright but unlike cork changed the script for the replay
Cork woefully changed nothing absoultey nothing and McGuinness always evolved he's team so I find it amusing he doesn't questions cork for this

If cork had beaten kerry no way this team would beat monaghan or Donegal in cork running game would been persisted with and Cork would been turnover repeatedly
Clare game that mcguimness wasn't at showed problems cork had in defence

I'm huge fan mcguimness and I rate he's articles outstanding and he's one ulster final was brilliant and indeed on Dublin as he knows both teams will

He's never faced Cuthbert championship but beat them in the league
But imo as he said himself doesn't know them well or tactical wise and imo that the problem with he's assessment of cork, he's looking in from the outside picking games and results without actually seeing the performance in some league games, and rather than looking from the outside in, most cork fans who knows their football who look from the inside out of this team know huge problem in structure actual football coaching in training, no warm weather camps, poor team selection and better players cork county not getting games and defence is poor know management are accountability for that
Cork are in free flowing game league beautiful from the outside, like kerry and Donegal in non intense games look all ireland winners
It's better to be ugly on the outside though and beautiful from the inside out

Monaghan and Donegal and fermanagh may seem ugly with the brand of football they play compared to others but there real beauty to watch as with limited scources, playing talent against force of tradition in football there getting every last inch out of there teams and that is where there ahead of cork, these teams don't capture purist football mind but in truth any footballing fan should applaud them as their winning and o rourke said it with Monaghan it's all about winning

Fear is others are saying referee ended cork season, out own board will grab that life jacket and we'll see a superb display of cherry picking and propaganda in support of this management if they seek a second term and while ref was appalling there's been huge repeated mistakes cork football last two years that shouldn't go unnoticed but imo it will and I hope to be so wrong but my instinct tell me that this management is going to get a second term


Mcguimness I don't belive is that naive or in truth outside the circle of football he doesn't know about cork, I just get the hint as he's always been against championship structure he's using cork as kind pawn in he's saying there better actually are and using every excuse going to kind say should be in still championship and it's to add substances he's argument that championship is need change and that what I would imo dismiss lot what he said regards cork in bigger picture here is big name gone out of the championship and he'll support them in its bigger power pull get notice when county like Cork exists championship and he also aware cork at Congress hold good shift of power so beware of the Greek bearing gifts in ancient times imo mcguimness is trying be cork new best friend but it really in essence he's using it for another argument
In truth by talking up cork to be better than they are he's doing us more harm than good

Just one other points as well forgotten here
Wexford beat clare hurling two weeks on the go,both epic extra time battles then waterford in knowlan park after three weeks on go last year
Yes fourth week was way way way too much for them
Point is though Wexford beat all ireland champions then waterford three weeks on the go when many felt mentally were gone from the draw ist day v clare
Wexford beat clare extra time replay no problem with short space of time





Cork were in similar position but had week between ist kerry game and the replay
And it's Kildare we were playing only
Yes it was a tough ask for Cork but let's keep it in perspective no means an impossible ask at all at all as this was only cork second game in two week, Wexford beat waterford after a third game in consecutive weeks,where two were extra time where cork had a break after the drawn kerry game
Wexford also had some involved in under twenty hurling panel who still involved in the season
Also I'd argue that the game football is easier play three games in row than hurling as football easier slow game down where hurling usually is a game of pace high octane end to end stuff


Cork were hindered yes by the championship structure but to say cork were victims is a total disregard for the other misgivings and failures of this team under this management in big big games last and this year and new Zealand have a motto once is an accident more than once is a trend
Mcguimness and other need to realise in five big games Dublin last and this year league, kerry twice and mayo and aside from Kildare cork lost and were haunted beat tippeary last year in cork
So problems run deeper imo than a poor championship structure let's be honest and realistic here

Brolly campaign for referee changes for years and rightly so but from critsim cork weeks before was lamenting sunday game nearly ten minutes about ref and Cork etc etc etc All can change suit their agenda
To be fair when he did eventually move on to the game he expertly showed three example of cork running game plan being flawed
Fair play to him for that


The best absoultey out of this world article all week was Kieran shannon today
Everything he said is true
Jbm will resign but he'll do he's way not in the front of Joanne cantwell


He's also right cuthbhertt will seek another term
See the difference cuthbhertt will still want new term and imo showed no courtesy respect cork football by refusing give interview
Christ above clare go mad with Davy interview but at least he's giving them
Not a dicky board from out football set up yet you couldn't get them away from the radio paper etc before


Kerry all ireland final Last year rte sent camera down to cork interview cuthbhertt and ask him how to beat kerry you were Donegal
Unbelievable you just couldn't make it up in fairness
That's like asking Brendan Rodgers how would you beat Alex fergusson
Yes the talk is good and all the football cliches are outstanding and imo cuthbhertt is media dream he talks the talk and like mcgenney good story
But with greatest respect he's football philosophy are just a theory as on field play there flawed
Now I'm not being harsh just look at the results

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/kieran-shannon/kieran-shannon-time-for-corks-backseat-drivers-to-change-direction-344973.html

Everything he said is true, take referee out of the equation Saturday loss no excuse team way they fell apart easy
He's right regards board men travelling on the bus
Only county ireland allow it
Complete joke Donovan and frank on bus football team in killarney
As shannon said this small detail tells you lot
Imo it tells me all you need to know


This management i said from day one are not ruthless enough like fitzmaurice etc
Here shows it cuthbhertt isn't ruthless to say to frank like o grady was your place is not in the dressing room or on the bus
Management allowed it and players surely can't be happy with that


You see all those critsed Cusack rant sunday do what they always do
They let emotions get in the way, they dislike him so he's valid points are lost in translation
He's right as proven by shannon here frank is surrounded by yes men and cuthbhertt is also one as well known facilties dual code for frank


Jbm has good relationship frank but jbm is a God hurling so frank knows even him can't rock that both as there will be only one winner as even frank closest allied wouldn't back him against jbm so point is while yes frank field v clare and gave front page photo cork beat Dublin that cork paper only too happy to show jbm isn't yes man in jbm brought in cunningjham and landers as coaches but who were never forgiven for their past strike days


Shannon is right cuthbhertt gave lot commitment cork but time is now to go
Jbm will go himself in a few weeks I think and God help cork if tomas mulchay get it
Imo should be four crucial appointment cork in minor football hurling and senior in both codes in football but there's likely to be just three
Time for the clubs to make sure and ex cork pundits stand up challenge non proven guys get the job
We have to get these appointment right


And then work on the underage and put money in and help rebel og who are doing good work but they need more support
Out gdo number is a joke compared to other counties for the size of cork

Its all too easy to jump on the bandwagon but blaming all of this on any one person or problem is incorrect.

Obviously there are problems but its not like all other counties are ripping it up either.

Also whats up with thinkstoomuch1, some sort of a bot or what

Tomfla wrote: »

Its all too easy to jump on the bandwagon but blaming all of this on any one person or problem is incorrect.

Obviously there are problems but its not like all other counties are ripping it up either.

Also whats up with thinkstoomuch1, some sort of a bot or what

Debate points with logic
That's not counter debate
You need to add more logical point for your counter debates with respect be taken seriously
We all know where power lies cork gaa

lim4ev wrote: »

Again from the outside looking in surely the current situation with the hurlers is only a blip? granted it could be 15 years before ye win the senior all irl since your previous one.I mean with the size of the county with the proper structures in place it should take at max ten yrs before you start to see improvement and for me I know your u21s have been woeful as of late but am I correct in saying the cork minors drew with the Waterford minor winning team of 13 and last yr though limerick were better they put it up to a very good limerick minor team who should have won the all irl last yr, and finally this yr ye should have beaten limerick and prob would have had if they hadn't lost Kingston and in my opinion would have been right up there to win the minor outright this yr.

I wouldn't be as familiar with the names but that lad coleman and Kingston are defo 2 that could improve and I don't think for one second there isn't more

Getting few players now and again coming from culture born failure not good
Need be winning
Nothing really changed until shannon said clear change at board level as minor win all ireland always just one poor managers appointment for ground be lost


Huge huge huge huge unfair grosly unfair pressure next year minor again as every year cork loose senior loose minor expectations higher minor


This year minor huge pressure and done well handled it best they could
Unfortunately no easy way curve pressure as every year minor don't win pressure mounts
Kerry minor football last year had it but no real pressure this year team

Cork have good core this minor team and few last year but need start winning


Club scene needs major over haul but still ignored despite pleas from Wallis four years ago John meyler this year and Dan Kearney
It falls on deaf ears though

Figsy32 wrote: »

It's the one thing about Cork being gone is that there's now going to be great club games to go to!

With no good players to see.

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/jim-mcguinness-cork-victims-of-flawed-all-ireland-championship-format-1.2298938

I rate McGuinness hugely but he's just giving one side coin here
Id say the county board and cuthbhertt are now having mcguimness as they're hero
Article like that they will use new term
Mcguimness you would imagine as articulate as he's in gaa and outstanding coach would know don't judge fully or put case for cork when he admits he doesn't know cuthbhertt coaching or tactics very well

McGuinness has no interest in what's best for Cork football - he's doing what's best for Donegal football and that involves keeping Cuthbert in place for as long as possible.

Imagine for a minute that a Kerryman wrote the exact same article.

Rebel norrie wrote: »

Senior Club games this weekend.
Glen Rovers v Bride Rovers. Bride to win
Na parsaigh v Erin's Own. Erin's own
Ballymartle v Carrigtwohill. Carrig to win.

I have a feeling your wrong on all 3 lol.

Tough weekend all round lads...

Bitterly disappointing from a Cork perspective. Out-fought and out-thought in both games and some glaring problems in both codes brought back into the spotlight.

Firstly we have imo a huge problem as has been flagged with our football management. Tactically inept and you could argue they are also lacking in the most important part of management...the ability to identity a player or indeed to differentiate between a decent player and a good player.

Before any tactics come into consideration I just feel this management team has failed to select the best panel available to them. Within that team selection or indeed the make up of a panel in a county of our size will always generate debate.

I feel for whatever reasons they were excluded that leaving out guys like Vaughan, Dan McEoin and even a raw physical player like Peter Kelleher limited our options both tactically and selection wise. Personally looking on from the outside I don't see what a John Hayes or Colm O Driscoll offer us that others don't.

I feel that by limiting their selection particularly in the forwards they shot themselves in the foot. I'd much prefer to see promising young guys bristling with potential than older players who no disrespect never made much of an impact at this level or haven't done so in years.

Also the role of Kerrigan and Collins throughout the Championship has left me dumbfounded. We have used them in a sweeper capacity and to link the attack by running the ball. All well and good but why bring two talented forwards who know where the posts are back to fulfill such a role. Just not using your resources wisely again for me. Instead we have lads like Colm, Kevin O Driscoll getting into advanced areas where they they are ineffective.

Hopefully now the job will be given to somebody better suited and the potential in Cork football can be realised. We still might not win All Irelands but we are better than this.

To hurling and well I'm afraid there's not as much positivity there. We all know the problems and they don't need repeating by me but what we need is for EVERYONE with ability to improve the structures of Cork hurling both administratively and technically to put aside their differences and get together to work on this.

Donal Og was 100% correct in what he said on Sunday night but he should have refrained from name calling and insults imo. That's just creating wider divides when both sides need to bridge them.

He was correct in that the club's need to stand up for themselves and instruct delegates to ask questions...far reaching questions. It needs to come from the clubs imo.

The last generation of all Ireland winners are by and large outcasts in the grand scheme of things but that's an entire generation of all Ireland winning expertise lost....we need these lads on board at all levels of Cork hurling in some capacity. Somebody needs to extend the olive branch before its too late and that needs to be the CCB executive imo...they are the guys at the top table...they need to set the example here for the betterment of Cork hurling.

I feel Jimmy has still a huge part to play in this. He is the most iconic man in Cork hurling and people will listen and respond to that man. Keep him in the loop at all costs imo.

No man comes in not thinking he wont do the job...the lads were out of there depth at this level ...hopefully they will learn from it ...who knows ...best of luck in Brian Cuthberts future....its time to look ahead now and get this right ..I believe that it should be John Clearys if he wants it ...see what he has to offer.

Fair play he's doing the right thing
He should never been put in there so all accountability can't be on him the board also etc

I said this before he has huge role play cork gaa as huge skills administration etc

Brennan kk proved it not great manager great gaa organisation
Cuthbhertt should deserves job cork I hope he gets one
It's jobs match skills should be


Clearly and English should get it
Ephie Fitzgerald could be in for it

Gene o Driscoll selector possibly
Kissane could be in for it but I'd rather he got the minor job


Must be some one with proven experience

I don't think things are as bad some think
Good management and this could turn around very fast to top four team again

Credit due it seemed he's seek new term as shannon even said likely could

Cork have to get this next appointment right and I think they will this time as pressure is on

Figsy32 wrote: »

+1. While I questioned his selection and tactics, you could never question the passion and commitment he put in. He should be thanked for his efforts but I think this is in the best interests of Cork football. Hope he has success in whatever he does next.

Absolutely that was never in doubt
As mentioned in article today good development squads
Would be ideal administration role or with in gaa itself
I hope he's not lost gaa as he has strength in the organisation


Hurling could be next as shannon said jbm probably go

Cork can't change the past but they can decide the future
No one can guarantee any coach be successful but least putting in candidates with proven record gives logic could work

Possible four appointment cork gaa minor and senior in football and possibly hurling
Get them right and Cork well over half way getting sustained success that the fans players media etc cork all want and deserve
No problem filling the new stadium then

"CORK MUST BANISH CRUTCHES AND EXCUSES" says Quirke the Kerryman in today's examiner as he attempts to vilify Conor McCarthy's fine recent article exposing Kerry's under the counter tactics to con our happy whistlers.
But of course, as a foine sporting Kerryman he just manages to squeeze in the scary comment and indictment of Joe McQuillan from Cavan (they beat Kerry in N.York in 1947 and have never been forgiven) by telling us all that McQuillan's negative influence on Kerry teams this past ten years would FRIGHTEN us if he had the time and inclination to give us the details.
A faulty hand pass by Killian Young v Down in 2010 Q.final is still breaking their chops as McQuillan disallowed the goal.
The really sad thing is he's getting paid to write this tripe.