offered a job in public service, should i take?

djsim101 · 24-07-2015 07:26AM #1

Hi lads sorry for the vague subject. I got a phone call on Tuesday offering my an job which i am delighted for as it was a tuff process.

However here is my dilemma. There is a big difference in salaries. I am on the industrial average now but there is 8K of a difference in the PS position. Unfortunately they wont take my experience into play as it was not for a different public sector body which i think its unfair.

I feel at my career now i dont think i can go back to the very start again as it would take a quite a no of years to get back to where i am now if i took the job. On the other hand, with the PS job, mormore holidays, pension, job security etc?

Any ideas, opinions? Didnt sleep last nite as i keep playing it over and over in my head.

Thanks

kippy · 24-07-2015 07:31AM

djsim101 wrote: »

Hi lads sorry for the vague subject. I got a phone call on Tuesday offering my an job which i am delighted for as it was a tuff process.

However here is my dilemma. There is a big difference in salaries. I am on the industrial average now but there is 8K of a difference in the PS position. Unfortunately they wont take my experience into play as it was not for a different public sector body which i think its unfair.

I feel at my career now i dont think i can go back to the very start again as it would take a quite a no of years to get back to where i am now if i took the job. On the other hand, with the PS job, mormore holidays, pension, job security etc?

Any ideas, opinions? Didnt sleep last nite as i keep playing it over and over in my head.

Thanks

Is that 8k a difference in net or gross pay? The difference in net pay will be a lot more than the difference in gross pay generally once you take the various mandatory pension contributions into account.
How secure is your current job? What grade is new job@

Jotunheim · 24-07-2015 07:31AM

The salary for the public sector job would have been known to you before you applied, so why bother even going through the competition only to have a problem with it now?

GalwayGrrrrrl · 24-07-2015 07:31AM

I think job security and a pension is worth taking a pay cut for. You might not be much worse off each month when tax etc is taken into account anyway.

djsim101 · 24-07-2015 07:37AM

Thanks lads for some of your comments. Its gross so the 8k is before tax is the difference

Its a tuff one to call, no job in the private sector is secure but its tuff working years and gaining experience and to have tto start off again :-)

Sorry kibby, its grade 4

otoolepw · 24-07-2015 07:44AM

Yup take the pensionable public sector role. My experience in many private sector jobs over 25 years, some go bust, scale back, get sold/taken over, asset stripped (customers), redundancies, contract work, etc. Only in stable employer for the first time this past 5 years, bitty pensions (multiple schemes) amounting to SWA before that. If I had your choice with what I know now, it would be a no brainer.

Addle · 24-07-2015 07:47AM

The pension argument - you know you pay well for your ps pension?
You could stay in your current job, pay less privately towards the same pension, and still have higher net pay.

Job security-have you any reason to think your current job isn't secure?

Would you be interested in further study? Taking s career break down the line?
If the answer to the last 2 questions is yes, then the public service is a good place to work.

If you're a woman who has/wants children, the ps offers very family friendly job sharing opportunities.

There is very low moral in most offices now. The same people working together for years now for less pay and with little support; and completely fed up with each other.

Depending on the office your working in, the job can be extremely stressful.
How would you feel like taking a suicide awareness course because you're a frontline staff members in the local dole office, or having to appear in court because the dept of education has had to investigate an historic sexual abuse claim, or having a gun in your face because you work for compliance in revenue and are calling to debtors...

It's not all it's supposedly cracked up to be.

djsim101 · 24-07-2015 07:54AM

Thanks lads for all your help, its helping a lot. Job is working in an IT dept.

Current employer doing okay but some rumors going around that not doing as well either, but i am used to these working in the private sector.

With it always looking to upskill but no chance oof me having a baby or career break.

Uriel. · 24-07-2015 07:56AM

The net pay difference will be even greater because in the ps you have to pay pension contributions.

No one can really advise you, because it depends on your own circumstances. Can you afford such a pay cut for example?

I'd be looking at career development opportunities as well... There's generally good opportunity for promotion etc in the public service, how does that compare to your current job? I guess if you go to the ps, keep your head down and work hard you can progress up the ladder to higher paid positions

Lu Tze · 24-07-2015 07:58AM

Jotunheim wrote: »

The salary for the public sector job would have been known to you before you applied, so why bother even going through the competition only to have a problem with it now?

In fairness, its a bit of a joke that you could come top of a panel, due to your great experience, yet start on the bottom rung of the payscale as non-ps experience doesn't count!

Turn down the Job, and the next candidate on the panel (deemed inferior to you at recruitment stage) , from within the PS is offered it at higher pay! Its a serious block to any candidates trying to get into the PS for the first time in a more senior role particularly.

Uriel. · 24-07-2015 08:03AM

Lu Tze wrote: »

In fairness, its a bit of a joke that you could come top of a panel, due to your great experience, yet start on the bottom rung of the payscale as non-ps experience doesn't count!

Turn down the Job, and the next candidate on the panel (deemed inferior to you at recruitment stage) , from within the PS is offered it at higher pay! Its a serious block to any candidates trying to get into the PS for the first time in a more senior role particularly.

It's really not. The public service is hiring across the entire spectrum at the moment right up to what might be equivalent of director level (€90k+) positions. Candidates should then apply for the job at the "right level" for them.

The reason existing public service employees can start somewhere other than the bottom of the pay scale is that them getting the position is effectively a promotion, rather than starting a new job, it wouldn't make sense to get promoted and start on a lesser salary. The way the pay scales are set out I'd be surprised if someone was in a position to have to start mid pay scale in any event

average_runner · 24-07-2015 08:07AM

Where do u go for applying for IT jobs in the PS?

ECO_Mental · 24-07-2015 08:09AM

A Good job in bad times and a bad job in good times......

You have got to factor in no bonuses as well, also promotion to the next level could be years away and then the promotion position you are applying for will be advertised to the entire country even though you could be doing the job for years yourself. You will get your increments alright about 1-2% a year ! for a couple of years though.

In saying that I joined the PS in bad times 2009(bless myself every day) and halved my salary overnight taking the position.

Don't join the PS for the money or expect if you work you balls off that you will get that promotion you deserve you won't. Join the PS for job security, work life balance, yes the holidays, flexitime etc if you have young kids parental leave, work sharing, term time holidays all aren't a problem. No amount of money can buy job security and not having the possibility of losing your job(unless you murder someone)

The work can be interesting enough, you can always transfer to another dept if you get pissed off.

As I say I joined over 6 years ago and took a 50% pay cut and its only now that there are promotion positions open but they are open to the whole country so I don't hold any hope but joining was one of the best decisions I made.

Fieldsman · 24-07-2015 08:13AM

OP what do you mean by the word "tuff" is it something to do with hard rock.

djsim101 · 24-07-2015 08:13AM

Thats my only bug bearer. During the interview i thought i could bring it up but with 3 interviewes that keep throwing questions i forgot at the end '-)

I could take a pay cut and still ( just about) by okay with mortgage etc, but we were looking to move, promised daughter new piano, things like that would be put to the backburner.

Its just all the night courses i went on and paid for myself to get where i am now doesnt be counted for.

I think i will turn down the job and let someone else have a chance.

Btw tuff meant a difficult process and was delighted with the offer.

The Bishop Basher · 24-07-2015 08:14AM

It's not just about current pay etc. though.

You also need to think about future career opportunities.

Public Service roles are not known for being dynamic, challenging, rewarding etc.

Especially in the IT arena where you need to stay on top of latest technologies and trends.

I could never work in the public sector for this reason. I deal with them all the time and there's just no comparison in terms of challenges which provide opportunities to develop yourself professionally.

One example would be downing tools at 5pm on a Friday with a SAN down. Unheard of in a private sector company but the norm for public. That's not an environment where you will grow and thrive.

24-07-2015 08:15AM

average_runner wrote: »

Where do u go for applying for IT jobs in the PS?

Temporary contract company (in Cork/Dublin anyway), get paid €25k a year (less than the permanent staff supporting you), rolling contract, no potential for permanent position and no benefits.

ECO_Mental · 24-07-2015 08:15AM

djsim101 wrote: »

Thanks lads for all your help, its helping a lot. Job is working in an IT dept.

Current employer doing okay but some rumors going around that not doing as well either, but i am used to these working in the private sector.

With it always looking to upskill but no chance oof me having a baby or career break.

Thinking of having kids! call them NOW and say when do you want me to start. That's a no brainer decision

Lu Tze · 24-07-2015 08:15AM

Uriel. wrote: »

It's really not. The public service is hiring across the entire spectrum at the moment right up to what might be equivalent of director level (€90k+) positions. Candidates should then apply for the job at the "right level" for them.

The reason existing public service employees can start somewhere other than the bottom of the pay scale is that them getting the position is effectively a promotion, rather than starting a new job, it wouldn't make sense to get promoted and start on a lesser salary. The way the pay scales are set out I'd be surprised if someone was in a position to have to start mid pay scale in any event

I don't particularly agree with this reasoning, where it can lead offering lower salaries to candidates deemed to be of higher equality and missing out on recruiting them and filling the role eventually with lower quality candidates at a higher cost.

24-07-2015 08:18AM

djsim101 wrote: »

Btw tuff meant a difficult process and was delighted with the offer.

He is (badly) pointing out that the word should be "tough"?

ECO_Mental · 24-07-2015 08:19AM

Swanner wrote: »

It's not just about current pay etc. though.

You also need to think about future career opportunities.

Public Service roles are not known for being dynamic, challenging, rewarding etc.

Especially in the IT arena where you need to stay on top of latest technologies and trends.

I could never work in the public sector for this reason. I deal with them all the time and there's just no comparison in terms of challenges which provide opportunities to develop yourself professionally.

One example would be downing tools at 5pm on a Friday with a SAN down. Unheard of in a private sector company but the norm for public. That's not an environment where you will grow and thrive.

Say that to the lads unblocking drains at three in the morning on a stormy January night with trucks flying past you......

24-07-2015 08:20AM

Swanner wrote: »

It's not just about current pay etc. though.

You also need to think about future career opportunities.

Public Service roles are not known for being dynamic, challenging, rewarding etc.

Especially in the IT arena where you need to stay on top of latest technologies and trends.

I could never work in the public sector for this reason. I deal with them all the time and there's just no comparison in terms of challenges which provide opportunities to develop yourself professionally.

One example would be downing tools at 5pm on a Friday with a SAN down. Unheard of in a private sector company but the norm for public. That's not an environment where you will grow and thrive.

And yet in the few months that I worked in conjunction with them I saw them working non stop over the weekend to fix server issues, on several occasions, and also often working late into the night.

JaCrispy · 24-07-2015 08:20AM

djsim101 wrote: »

I think i will turn down the job and let someone else have a chance.

Don't do that. Play hard ball a bit anyway - tell them that you'll accept the offer only if they match your current salary. You're top of their panel for a reason.

You've nothing to lose.

24-07-2015 08:21AM

JaCrispy wrote: »

Don't do that. Play hard ball a bit anyway - tell them that you'll accept the offer only if they match your current salary. You're top of their panel for a reason.

You've nothing to lose.

Exactly, if you are willing to not take it then what can you lose by making a few demands first?

Tazz T · 24-07-2015 08:25AM

Don't turn it down without negotiating. Say you can't afford to take the role on your current salary, would they consider upping the grade to the equivalent? When they refuse ask them to meet you halfway. If they still won't budge say sorry can't do. They're invested a lot in the recruitment process too. They might call you back.

24-07-2015 08:27AM

They are restricted in their grades for "New Entrants" by things like Haddington Road but there has to be a way around it, if they are looking for more than graduates...

ECO_Mental · 24-07-2015 08:28AM

JaCrispy wrote: »

Don't do that. Play hard ball a bit anyway - tell them that you'll accept the offer only if they match your current salary. You're top of their panel for a reason.

You've nothing to lose.

Doesn't work that way in the PS. Rules are rules.... Another PS disadvantage you can't go to your boss and argue for a pay rise just because you are doing a brilliant job

doncarlos · 24-07-2015 08:30AM

Swanner wrote: »

It's not just about current pay etc. though.

You also need to think about future career opportunities.

Public Service roles are not known for being dynamic, challenging, rewarding etc.

Especially in the IT arena where you need to stay on top of latest technologies and trends.

I could never work in the public sector for this reason. I deal with them all the time and there's just no comparison in terms of challenges which provide opportunities to develop yourself professionally.

One example would be downing tools at 5pm on a Friday with a SAN down. Unheard of in a private sector company but the norm for public. That's not an environment where you will grow and thrive.

What a load of nonsense.

Bassfish · 24-07-2015 08:32AM

JaCrispy wrote: »

Don't do that. Play hard ball a bit anyway - tell them that you'll accept the offer only if they match your current salary. You're top of their panel for a reason.

You've nothing to lose.

You can't do that, salaries for all public sector jobs are set nationally and as a new entrant, you start on the first point of the the scale. Wouldn't matter if he was Bill Gates, the salary scale is non negotiable.

24-07-2015 08:32AM

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Doesn't work that way in the PS. Rules are rules.... Another PS disadvantage you can't go to your boss and argue for a pay rise just because you are doing a brilliant job

Rules are rules.... until they are not.
They may be taking the OP on as IT grade "X" but based on experience they could take on at grade "Y".

There are ways around everything and, while they do have their hands tied, there is nothing to lose by making some noise (prior to not even accepting the role)

Uriel. · 24-07-2015 08:32AM

They won't negotiate. It's not how it works. You're on a panel op, if you don't want the job the next person, or the one after that etc. Will take it.

offered a job in public service, should i take?

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