offered a job in public service, should i take?

worth acknowledging kippys two points:

single scheme averaging career earnings as opposed to final three years is a significant downgrade

PRD and other increased charges on the pension do, obviously, count as changes that impact existing scheme members.

i've still to see a case where its less advantageous than a similar level of contributions to a private scheme. factor in stability and the fact that it all happens without you having to do anything (I'd never have gotten off my arse at 26 to start arranging a pension had I not joined PS) and the pension is significant.

Lux23

I took a public service job and I don't think I realised how low my net pay would work out. I am really struggling to pay rent and bills on a fortnightly wage of just over €800. However, I know this will improve come January and I will also get another small bump in February so I am willing to deal with the low wage for now. Like you I have years of experience (i'm 33), but after losing two jobs in the last five years I chose security and a flexible working week over a higher wage. I won't lie though, it is very tough at the moment and not much fun living on €400 a week in Dublin.

kippy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

if pension scheme benefits change it will only be for subsequent new entrants with an option to opt-in for existing members. has always been this way.

pre 95 pension scheme members are generally no better or worse off in terms of COAP in the cases I've seen. the COAP is offset to the cent and post 95 scheme contributions qualify for tax deduction (Hence schemes being split between PRSI class A or B when we have to differentiate between them internally)

glad u asked me that, kippy, obv

The schemes for all public sector employees changed when the contributions (pension levy) essentially increased the amount people paid for pensions. This can and most likely will change again in future.
Indeed the scheme is due to change again for all employees retiring on over 65k net salary also.
Finally those who are pre 95 work put considerably better if they can work up the minimum amount of stamps to qualify for COAP on top of their contributory pension.

kippy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

worth acknowledging kippys two points:

single scheme averaging career earnings as opposed to final three years is a significant downgrade

PRD and other increased charges on the pension do, obviously, count as changes that impact existing scheme members.

i've still to see a case where its less advantageous than a similar level of contributions to a private scheme. factor in stability and the fact that it all happens without you having to do anything (I'd never have gotten off my arse at 26 to start arranging a pension had I not joined PS) and the pension is significant.

I'm not suggesting it is a worse scheme than that available in the Private sector just that there are various caveats and variables involved which often escape the less well informed.

fair points, the COAP on top is their own business tho I'd say!

those over 65k are already getting a few whacks (pre and post pension) due to hra but the moratorium on calculating benefits on reduced wage has been extended again well into next year which should see a good bit of clawback by then anyway maybe.

kippy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

fair points, the COAP on top is their own business tho I'd say!

those over 65k are already getting a few whacks (pre and post pension) due to hra but the moratorium on calculating benefits on reduced wage has been extended again well into next year which should see a good bit of clawback by then anyway maybe.

I've seen a lot of pre 94 people work up the minimum stamps to top up by 12k a year. Not an insignificant portion of extra cash nor a significant amount of stamps.

Mrs OBumble

I wouldn't be basing the decision on permanence or otherwise: personally I expect that this is something which will change sooner or later.

Personally I've been shopping for a private sector pension lately. Before complaining about the pension levy etc - make sure you look at the effect of brokers fees for private pensions. You might get a surprise.

anyway not to get sidetracked- OP you should take the job imo

anyone telling you the salary is negotiable- lol

work-life balance, stability, pension all good

role, environment, satisfaction and development all vary hugely depending on placement but its a rapidly changing service and you are more likely to be pleasantly surprised than not in my opinion

kippy

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I wouldn't be basing the decision on permanence or otherwise: personally I expect that this is something which will change sooner or later.

Personally I've been shopping for a private sector pension lately. Before complaining about the pension levy etc - make sure you look at the effect of brokers fees for private pensions. You might get a surprise.

I'm well aware of the ins and outs of both sectors.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

anyway not to get sidetracked- OP you should take the job imo

anyone telling you the salary is negotiable- lol

work-life balance, stability, pension all good

role, environment, satisfaction and development all vary hugely depending on placement but its a rapidly changing service and you are more likely to be pleasantly surprised than not in my opinion

Salary no but grade yes

lol

Chimichangas

Take it imo, become established and look for future opportunities, studies from within.
Good luck with your decision making!

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

lol

Great comment. There's been an example given in thread of it and I've seen nurses offered cnm roles Vs staff, to swing decisions

kippy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Great comment. There's been an example given in thread of it and I've seen nurses offered cnm roles Vs staff, to swing decisions

You mean the OP will be offered a higher grade than the competition they applied for?
Will not happen.

nah I assume they mean enter at a higher point than entry grade on that scale

will not happen obv

any example anyone can give of any such occurrence since 2009 that might possibly apply to this instance would be interesting. I don't believe any will be forthcoming, and I don't think advising OP on the basis of same is realistic.

doesn't hurt to ask as long as a response of "no" doesn't hurt I guess

kippy

kippy wrote: »

You mean the OP will be offered a higher grade than the competition they applied for?
Will not happen.

Except that I've seen it happen in nurses being tempted to accept with CNM roles Vs staff roles, where 2 hospitals are competing for areas of shortage

Gest

HSE are a law onto themselves it wouldn't surprise me if they offered higher grades for an "appropriate" person.

kippy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Except that I've seen it happen in nurses being tempted to accept with CNM roles Vs staff roles, where 2 hospitals are competing for areas of shortage

Doesn't happen in general roles. Or indeed IT roles in the CS. As I've said on another thread I've seen very talented EOs leave for the private sector in the past few years and there's literally nothing that can be done. In the same instance you only have to look at a few threads on here to see the experiences of those who have been offered roles in the CS only to see the pay does not match their expectations.

djsim101

Thanks lads for all your help and input today. I am going to think it over the weekend and will let u know on Monday.

I am leaning towards not taking it tbh. But dont want to regret it either 10 yrs dwn the road.

SheepFarmer

djsim101 wrote: »

Thanks lads for some of your comments. Its gross so the 8k is before tax is the difference

Its a tuff one to call, no job in the private sector is secure but its tuff working years and gaining experience and to have tto start off again :-)

Sorry kibby, its grade 4

If you do accept the job offer, learn how to spell "tough".

Uriel.

SheepFarmer wrote: »

If you do accept the job offer, learn how to spell "tough".

Is that really necessary?

druidhill

djsim101 wrote: »

Thanks lads for all your help and input today. I am going to think it over the weekend and will let u know on Monday.

I am leaning towards not taking it tbh. But dont want to regret it either 10 yrs dwn the road.

There have been a significant amount of threads and activity on this forum recently about specific public sector competitions. I recommend you read them carefully over the weekend if you have not done so. It will take you a while to read through it. There is a lot of good stuff in it (lots of the usual public sector vs. private sector BS there too).

My group of close friends consists of experienced professionals in their chosen field(s), both public sector workers and private sector workers (commonly working for large organisations so can't really comment on smaller companies etc.). Some things I have learned from the various discussions that we have re. jobs/careers:

• The gulf between salaries is very significant (honestly don't know how COs/EOs in the public sector manage to survive). It is not really about the starting salaries but the gulf in earnings potential 10 years into your career.
• The other stuff (educational assistance, flexi-time, parental leave etc) is not exclusive to the public sector and I know lots of people in the private sector who have availed of some or all of these (in addition to private health insurance).
• Deadwood exists in both public and private sectors.
• Work-life balance is what you make it (certainly most people have more personal control over it than they realise).
• One of the guys (a software developer) moved a few years back from private to public sector and he still can't seem to get used to working with a 19" monitor as opposed to having his laptop and two nicely sized monitors (just threw this observation in as I'm sure he'll be reading this thread).

Good luck with your decision (only you can make it!!).

sin0city

I'm in a similar position OP. My net pay - moving from private sector to public sector - will decrease by about1,000 Euro a month (although part of that is pension).

Even though it will make things harder for a few years I'm going to take it because:

Job security.
No uncertainty regarding your employment. That is an undeniable advantage.

Flexibility.
Flexi-time, the possibility of a shorter working week, parental leave, career break, maternity.

Training.
I've a friend doing a degree costing over ten grand through his job. He also gets study leave. Another who qualified as a barrister through the service.

Promotion opportunities.
If you're playing the long game they are there, especially if you're coming from open competition as you know you can compete in those.

Pension.
Not that big a deal to me as its likely the last quarter of your life but I don't have a private one so it's good and costs less than a private pension.

Increments.
Couple of grand a year means it won't take that long to get to a decent level. None of my private sector jobs to date have had guaranteed increases.

Decentralisation.
Limited I know but it offers a chance to move from the capital down the line.

I know some of the above are available in the private sector along with private health insurance but companies that offer those kind of benefits are the exception rather than the norm in my experience. Nonetheless, if you're in such a company it's a different ball game.

It's a tough decision but that was my reasoning, good luck either way OP.