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Dress codes

2456

Comments

  • #32
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,932 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    lizzyman wrote: »
    What about this line from their website:

    "YOU MUST BE OVER 23 TO BE SERVED!"

    Surely that can't be enforced, let alone be legal?

    Re the dress code, personally I'd go a step further and ban any and all ripped jeans, tshirts and runners.


    according to the Vintners Federation of Ireland it is perfectly OK to put up a sign saying "YOU MUST BE OVER 23 TO BE SERVED!
    as long as the policy is applied evenly and universally. Presumably they have taken legal advice in this respect.

    Page 12 in the PDF below.
    http://vfi.ie/files/faq.pdf


  • #33
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    according to the Vintners Federation of Ireland it is perfectly OK to put up a sign saying "YOU MUST BE OVER 23 TO BE SERVED!
    as long as the policy is applied evenly and universally. Presumably they have taken legal advice in this respect.

    Page 12 in the PDF below.
    http://vfi.ie/files/faq.pdf

    You cannot refuse to sell something that is being purchased legally. I would wager they have not had any legal advice. You can only refuse not to serve a person you do not want to do business with. And even then you may be afoul of discrimination law for example and others.


  • #34
    lizzyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 704 ✭✭✭lizzyman


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    according to the Vintners Federation of Ireland it is perfectly OK to put up a sign saying "YOU MUST BE OVER 23 TO BE SERVED!
    as long as the policy is applied evenly and universally. Presumably they have taken legal advice in this respect.

    Page 12 in the PDF below.
    http://vfi.ie/files/faq.pdf

    So an under 23 year old can eat there but not have a drink?


  • #35
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,932 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    They cannot rewrite the law so no they will not be refusing alcohol to under 23's

    For the avoidance of doubt it states in the Equal Status Act 2000 to 2004
    (4) If—
    (a) the holder of a licence or other authorisation which permits
    the sale of intoxicating liquor adopts a policy of refusing
    to supply intoxicating liquor to any person below a speci-
    fied age which exceeds 18 years,
    (b) a notice setting out the policy is displayed in a conspicuous
    place in or on the exterior of the premises, and
    (c) the policy is implemented in good faith,

    a refusal to serve intoxicating liquor to such a person shall not consti-
    tute discrimination on the age ground.


  • #36
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    lizzyman wrote: »
    So an under 23 year old can eat there but not have a drink?

    No, an over 18 can purchase alcohol legally in Ireland.


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  • #37
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,932 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    No, an over 18 can purchase alcohol legally in Ireland.

    Not if the publican doesnt want them on the premises.


  • #38
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    For the avoidance of doubt it states in the Equal Status Act 2000 to 2004

    Fair enough.


  • #39
    lizzyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 704 ✭✭✭lizzyman


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    No, an over 18 can purchase alcohol legally in Ireland.

    I know, but it appears that they can (unfortunately) legally refuse to serve anyone under a certain age.

    My point is, if someone under 23 walks in they can legally refuse to serve alcohol but surely they have no basis to refuse that person a soft drink and food?


  • #40
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,932 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    lizzyman wrote: »
    I know, but it appears that they can (unfortunately) legally refuse to serve anyone under a certain age.

    My point is, if someone under 23 walks in they can legally refuse to serve alcohol but surely they have no basis to refuse that person a soft drink and food?

    they have right to refuse them entrance. full stop.


  • #41
    lizzyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 704 ✭✭✭lizzyman


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    they have right to refuse them entrance. full stop.

    I don't see where refusing entrance is specified though.

    (4) If—
    (a) the holder of a licence or other authorisation which permits
    the sale of intoxicating liquor adopts a policy of refusing
    to supply intoxicating liquor to any person below a speci-
    fied age which exceeds 18 years,
    (b) a notice setting out the policy is displayed in a conspicuous
    place in or on the exterior of the premises, and
    (c) the policy is implemented in good faith,

    a refusal to serve intoxicating liquor to such a person shall not consti-
    tute discrimination on the age ground.


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  • #42
    Medusa22
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭Medusa22


    I don't particularly like dress codes, in any establishment. Of course I understand the reasoning behind it, especially in offices where it can be helpful to have guidelines. Having said that though, the clothes you wear should not matter, I wouldn't wear a tracksuit unless I'm going for a walk and I personally don't think it is very attractire attire in a pub but that's just my opinion. If you have the money and you behave yourself then there should be no reason not to serve someone, whether they are wearing a leopard print onesie or a tracksuit. What does it really matter?


  • #43
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    according to the Vintners Federation of Ireland it is perfectly OK to put up a sign saying "YOU MUST BE OVER 23 TO BE SERVED!
    as long as the policy is applied evenly and universally. Presumably they have taken legal advice in this respect.

    Page 12 in the PDF below.
    http://vfi.ie/files/faq.pdf

    That's it. They have to have set it out clearly - for instance an over-30's night in a nightclub or the like. They can't spring from over-18's to over-30's in a few minutes because they don't want to let some young people in.


  • #44
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,932 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    That's it. They have to have set it out clearly - for instance an over-30's night in a nightclub or the like. They can't spring from over-18's to over-30's in a few minutes because they don't want to let some young people in.

    Indeed. but if they want to find a reason to exclude an individual it isnt normally difficult to find a reason.


  • #45
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,932 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    lizzyman wrote: »
    I don't see where refusing entrance is specified though.

    (4) If—
    (a) the holder of a licence or other authorisation which permits
    the sale of intoxicating liquor adopts a policy of refusing
    to supply intoxicating liquor to any person below a speci-
    fied age which exceeds 18 years,
    (b) a notice setting out the policy is displayed in a conspicuous
    place in or on the exterior of the premises, and
    (c) the policy is implemented in good faith,

    a refusal to serve intoxicating liquor to such a person shall not consti-
    tute discrimination on the age ground.

    It isnt specified there. licenced premises have a long standing right to refuse admittance/service to anybody without supplying a reason.


  • #46
    HalloweenJack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,411 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    Boring username wrote: »
    Tracksuits are usually an indicator of someone with a, how shall I put this, limited cultural outlook.

    Your opinions please.
    You're a snob.

    I have a bachelor's degree, I've had steady employment ever since I left college, I've travelled the world, I speak four languages. Is that cultured enough for you?

    I shower everyday, shave once a week (my facial hair grows at a snail's pace) and wash my hands a ridiculous amount of times. Is that sufficient effort personal grooming-wise?

    Fact is I love wearing tracksuit bottoms or shorts, they're far more comfortable than any other type of clothes. There's nothing wrong with wanting comfort over appearance.

    I know exactly what posters are getting at with their anti-tracksuit rants but let's not judge a book by it's cover folks. There are plenty of dress styles that don't interest me one bit but I'm not going to go out and tar them all with the same brush.

    As for places having a dress code, that's fair enough and I don't have any problem with that. A part of going out for dinner that I enjoy is getting dressed up.

    However, what gets on my tits in this particular case, as evidenced in the post above, is this whole anti-tracksuit brigade with their lazy generalisations.


  • #47
    lizzyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 704 ✭✭✭lizzyman


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    It isnt specified there. licenced premises have a long standing right to refuse admittance/service to anybody without supplying a reason.

    Does this 'right' have a legal basis?


  • #48
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    awec wrote: »
    That is not the same as being legally compelled to sell it to them.

    Aye, already made that distinction.


  • #49
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    lizzyman wrote: »
    So an under 23 year old can eat there but not have a drink?

    Well if the sign says "IF YOU ARE UNDER 23 YOU WON'T BE SERVED" then I'm guessing they'll probably have to fetch the food for themselves.

    I wonder would they be allowed serve themselves a pint as well


  • #50
    Tefral
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,417 ✭✭✭Tefral


    HalloweenJack wrote: »
    You're a snob.

    I have a bachelor's degree, I've had steady employment ever since I left college, I've travelled the world, I speak four languages. Is that cultured enough for you?

    I shower everyday, shave once a week (my facial hair grows at a snail's pace) and wash my hands a ridiculous amount of times. Is that sufficient effort personal grooming-wise?

    Fact is I love wearing tracksuit bottoms or shorts, they're far more comfortable than any other type of clothes. There's nothing wrong with wanting comfort over appearance.

    I know exactly what posters are getting at with their anti-tracksuit rants but let's not judge a book by it's cover folks. There are plenty of dress styles that don't interest me one bit but I'm not going to go out and tar them all with the same brush.

    As for places having a dress code, that's fair enough and I don't have any problem with that. A part of going out for dinner that I enjoy is getting dressed up.

    However, what gets on my tits in this particular case, as evidenced in the post above, is this whole anti-tracksuit brigade with their lazy generalisations.

    Same, wear a suit pants and shirt every day for work. Love going home and putting on my Canterbury fat man pants. I'd imagine its the male equivalent to a lady taking her bra off at the end of the day ha ha..


  • #51
    lizzyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 704 ✭✭✭lizzyman


    Egginacup wrote: »
    Well if the sign says "IF YOU ARE UNDER 23 YOU WON'T BE SERVED" then I'm guessing they'll probably have to fetch the food for themselves.

    I wonder would they be allowed serve themselves a pint as well

    The point I'm making is that from what I can tell you can be refused alcohol. I don't see any legal basis for refusing to sell food/soft drinks etc.


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  • #52
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,932 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    lizzyman wrote: »
    Does this 'right' have a legal basis?


    You could start with R v Armagh Justices (1897) or R v Rymer (1877) 2 QBD 136 if you felt like doing some research. Longstanding like i said.


  • #53
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    lizzyman wrote: »
    The point I'm making is that from what I can tell you can be refused alcohol. I don't see any legal basis for refusing to sell food/soft drinks etc.

    That seems to be a problem as if it has a restaurant on site they would have to sell you food. Don't see any way of them being able to refuse entry to that.


  • #54
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ho! Look at them thither, wearing breeches made of fabric that is not akin to fabric that we doth put on our breeches! Hark, what sport!


  • #55
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,932 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    That seems to be a problem as if it has a restaurant on site they would have to sell you food. Don't see any way of them being able to refuse entry to that.

    you dont have a right to enter any private premises. and a public house is a private premises.


  • #56
    Kalman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 233 ✭✭Kalman


    Boring username wrote: »
    A new pub and restaurant in Co. Kerry caused something of a stir recently when they announced that tracksuits were banned from the establishment. Naturally, some people were outraged over the policy.

    http://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/outrage-over-bars-antitracksuit-dress-code-31325246.html

    Personally, I don't have a problem with this. Tracksuits are usually an indicator of someone with a, how shall I put this, limited cultural outlook. If a business is trying to attract a more upmarket clientèle then it is only fair that they request their customers to make an effort with personal grooming and dress.


    Your opinions please.

    If tracksuits are your only form of dress, then don't try to gain admission! [simple]


  • #57
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Yeah, don't like the rules then don't go there. I don't think its unreasonable for an establishment to request its clientele to actually dress themselves before entering the premises. I wouldn't go to a pub where the locals wore tracksuits. I wouldn't even answer the door if I was in tracksuits, some people have no shame at all


  • #58
    Sunny Dayz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭Sunny Dayz


    Hope a few more pubs and restaurants follow suit (pardon the pun!) and enforce a dress code like this. Tracksuits are fine for exercising or lounging around the house but not for going out!


  • #59
    PandaPoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,977 ✭✭✭PandaPoo


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    I wouldn't even answer the door if I was in tracksuits, some people have no shame at all

    You have to be joking?? That's pathetic..


  • #60
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    PandaPoo wrote: »
    You have to be joking?? That's pathetic..


    Is it? I would assume it's more pathetic to inflict yourself on other people when you're not presentable. I have fat man pants that I wear when I'm at home, being lazy. If I knew the OH was having friends over, or his parents were calling then yeah, you bet I'd dress myself. If it was my brother or close friends of mine, I wouldn't bother. But as a general rule, it's not an outrageous effort to dress myself in the mornings


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  • #61
    sullivlo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭sullivlo


    cronin_j wrote: »
    Same, wear a suit pants and shirt every day for work. Love going home and putting on my Canterbury fat man pants. I'd imagine its the male equivalent to a lady taking her bra off at the end of the day ha ha..

    I take off my bra AND wear fat man Canterbury shorts when I get home from work.


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