Dress codes

Boring username

A new pub and restaurant in Co. Kerry caused something of a stir recently when they announced that tracksuits were banned from the establishment. Naturally, some people were outraged over the policy.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/outrage-over-bars-antitracksuit-dress-code-31325246.html

Personally, I don't have a problem with this. Tracksuits are usually an indicator of someone with a, how shall I put this, limited cultural outlook. If a business is trying to attract a more upmarket clientèle then it is only fair that they request their customers to make an effort with personal grooming and dress.


Your opinions please.

jimgoose

I don't have a problem with this kind of thing. Their game, their rules.

kylith

I thought it was illegal to refuse entry based on what someone's wearing. AFAIK it's totally ok to refuse to let them in but if you say "I'm not letting you in because you're wearing a tracksuit" then you can sue.

Captain Chaos

kylith wrote: »

I thought it was illegal to refuse entry based on what someone's wearing. AFAIK it's totally ok to refuse to let them in but if you say "I'm not letting you in because you're wearing a tracksuit" then you can sue.

Tell that to Lewis Hamilton who got refused from Wimbeldon because he did not meet the dress code.

I have been refused many times in the past and given reasons like runners ect. I came back with shoes and was let in.

lazybones32

They won't be getting my custom. Not 'cos I'm an ardent tracksuit wearer but because I disagree with dress-codes for public establishments.

dodzy

They are dead right. Definitely brings down the tone of a place, particularly a nice shiny new pad that they have spent a small fortune on.

Let's face it, they just want to keep the scrotes out, and unfortunately for the decent portion of society who are comfortable in a tracksuit and are quite capable of going into an establishment, having some grub and drinks, enjoying themselves and then heading off, the other shower just make pigs of themselves and cause trouble. Harsh reality, so a blanket ban on said attire is a prudent move IMO.

hairycakes

I've seen it happen plenty of times with guys being refused because they are wearing runners/hoodies etc and being given that specific reason. If they have a dress code set out, I imagine they couldn't be sued.

I don't see the big deal. If you can't be bothered to dress up to meet the code, just find somewhere that will accept trackies. My OH practically lives in tracksuits, hoodies, runners (bit of a fitness freak) in his spare time but if he is heading out for drinks or a meal, he will always get dressed up.

ThisRegard

lazybones32 wrote: »

They won't be getting my custom. Not 'cos I'm an ardent tracksuit wearer but because I disagree with dress-codes for public establishments.

Despite it being called a public house, it's a private establishment.

P. Breathnach

Their pub, their rules.

I suspect that the outrage is largely contrived, but it's an easy way for a journalist to fill a few column inches.

AnonoBoy

kylith wrote: »

I thought it was illegal to refuse entry based on what someone's wearing. AFAIK it's totally ok to refuse to let them in but if you say "I'm not letting you in because you're wearing a tracksuit" then you can sue.

I don't think that's true.

Refusal on the grounds of age, race, gender etc. etc. is discrimination. Don't think refusal because someone is wearing something shabby falls into that.

Plenty of pubs in Dublin have 'No tracksuits' or 'Neat Dress Essential' signs up.

theteal

In fairness, there should be a ban on tracksuits in public places if not accompanied by a bag containing sporting equipment!

callaway92

As others have said, their pub, their rules.

We'd often to go the pub in tracksuits though if we are only going to watch football during the week for a couple of hours so can see why some would feel hard done by.

kfallon

AvB will be along shortly with some tips on the appropriate 'attire' for eating out in!

suicide_circus

kylith wrote: »

I thought it was illegal to refuse entry based on what someone's wearing. AFAIK it's totally ok to refuse to let them in but if you say "I'm not letting you in because you're wearing a tracksuit" then you can sue.

Nonsense.

I recall being told "not in those shoes" more than once.

Menas

Its ok to wear my Pajamas to this pub - right?

NachoBusiness

Bet you if OJ Simpson turned up in a tracksuit, they'd have no problem letting him in.
Bet you if Michael Vick turned up in a tracksuit, they'd have no problem letting him in.
Bet you if Ched Evans turned up in a tracksuit, they'd have no problem letting him in.
Bet you if Lance Armstrong turned up in a tracksuit, they'd have no problem letting him in.
Bet you if Jimmy Saville turned up in a tracksuit, they'd have no problem letting him in.

Bet you if Mr.Motivator turned up in a tracksuit, they'd have no problem letting him in.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Hopefully bootcut jeans are still ok.

kylith

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Tell that to Lewis Hamilton who got refused from Wimbeldon because he did not meet the dress code.

I have been refused many times in the past and given reasons like runners ect. I came back with shoes and was let in.

Wimbeldon is neither a pub, nor in Ireland, so the laws would be different.

AnonoBoy wrote: »

I don't think that's true.

Refusal on the grounds of age, race, gender etc. etc. is discrimination. Don't think refusal because someone is wearing something shabby falls into that.

Plenty of pubs in Dublin have 'No tracksuits' or 'Neat Dress Essential' signs up.

Perhaps that's it and I'm misremembering.

Steppenwolfe

I don't have a problem with it myself. If a restaurant, hotel or pub has a dress code I'm not comfortable with I'll go elsewhere. I would never wear a tracksuit to any of those establishments anyway. However, I don't like wearing a suit and tie and only dress like that when absolutely neccessary. If an establishment requires me to wear a suit/tie I'd just avoid it and go somewhere with a less formal dress code.

rubadub

kylith wrote: »

I thought it was illegal to refuse entry based on what someone's wearing.

Not at all, when I was first drinking it was very common to be refused for runners, tracksuits would have been out of the question. I was refused for having a shaved head, just a blade 3 or 4, which is very common now.

These days I go into the odd pub in tracksuit bottoms now, I never plan to, I would be out cycling and get a text, or otherwise caught out. I would still be quite sheepish going into some pubs in it, and its not a flashy shell suit, and would have the same top I might wear with jeans.

Kids have it easy these days, put on a traveller accent and they would let you into the vaults of a bank for fear of being branded prejudiced.

Boring username

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Hopefully bootcut jeans are still ok.

You've opened a can of worms now, boyo......

walkingshadow

The only dress code that should ever be enforced is the no shirts allowed rule for hot chicks.

Mahou

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Hopefully bootcut jeans are still ok.

They haven´t arrived to Kerry yet.

darkpagandeath

Why would you want to sit in that place surrounded by hipsters ?

The Adversary

Pettiness. How about businesses have a "common sense code" rather than a "dress code"? Leave an ordinary person in if they feel most comfortable in a pair of tracksuit bottoms but if a scumbag with full luminous addidas and socks tucked into airmax refuse entry.

ohnonotgmail

kylith wrote: »

I thought it was illegal to refuse entry based on what someone's wearing. AFAIK it's totally ok to refuse to let them in but if you say "I'm not letting you in because you're wearing a tracksuit" then you can sue.

not true. discrimination is totally ok once it is not based on one of the protected groups. Sportswear enthusiasts are not a protected group.

darkpagandeath

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

not true. discrimination is totally ok once it is not based on one of the protected groups. Sportswear enthusiasts are not a protected group.

Ha, I love the way protected groups can discriminate on top of that, Refuse you as you are not a member of the protected group. It's like having one's cake and eating it.

ohnonotgmail

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Ha, I love the way protected groups can discriminated on top of that as you are not a member of the protected group. It's like having one's cake and eating it.

i think you are missing a couple of words from that post. care to rephrase?

Talib Fiasco

They won't be in business for long if they don't allow people in tracksuits to enter, in Tralee of all places.

lizzyman

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

not true. discrimination is totally ok once it is not based on one of the protected groups. Sportswear enthusiasts are not a protected group.

What about this line from their website:

"YOU MUST BE OVER 23 TO BE SERVED!"

Surely that can't be enforced, let alone be legal?

Re the dress code, personally I'd go a step further and ban any and all ripped jeans, tshirts and runners.

darkpagandeath

lizzyman wrote: »

What about this line from their website:

"YOU MUST BE OVER 23 TO BE SERVED!"

Surely that can't be enforced, let alone be legal?

Re the dress code, personally I'd go a step further and ban any and all ripped jeans, tshirts and runners.

They cannot rewrite the law so no they will not be refusing alcohol to under 23's

ohnonotgmail

lizzyman wrote: »

What about this line from their website:

"YOU MUST BE OVER 23 TO BE SERVED!"

Surely that can't be enforced, let alone be legal?

Re the dress code, personally I'd go a step further and ban any and all ripped jeans, tshirts and runners.

according to the Vintners Federation of Ireland it is perfectly OK to put up a sign saying "YOU MUST BE OVER 23 TO BE SERVED!
as long as the policy is applied evenly and universally. Presumably they have taken legal advice in this respect.

Page 12 in the PDF below.
http://vfi.ie/files/faq.pdf

darkpagandeath

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

according to the Vintners Federation of Ireland it is perfectly OK to put up a sign saying "YOU MUST BE OVER 23 TO BE SERVED!
as long as the policy is applied evenly and universally. Presumably they have taken legal advice in this respect.

Page 12 in the PDF below.
http://vfi.ie/files/faq.pdf

You cannot refuse to sell something that is being purchased legally. I would wager they have not had any legal advice. You can only refuse not to serve a person you do not want to do business with. And even then you may be afoul of discrimination law for example and others.

lizzyman

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

according to the Vintners Federation of Ireland it is perfectly OK to put up a sign saying "YOU MUST BE OVER 23 TO BE SERVED!
as long as the policy is applied evenly and universally. Presumably they have taken legal advice in this respect.

Page 12 in the PDF below.
http://vfi.ie/files/faq.pdf

So an under 23 year old can eat there but not have a drink?

ohnonotgmail

darkpagandeath wrote: »

They cannot rewrite the law so no they will not be refusing alcohol to under 23's

For the avoidance of doubt it states in the Equal Status Act 2000 to 2004

(4) If—
(a) the holder of a licence or other authorisation which permits
the sale of intoxicating liquor adopts a policy of refusing
to supply intoxicating liquor to any person below a speci-
fied age which exceeds 18 years,
(b) a notice setting out the policy is displayed in a conspicuous
place in or on the exterior of the premises, and
(c) the policy is implemented in good faith,

a refusal to serve intoxicating liquor to such a person shall not consti-
tute discrimination on the age ground.

darkpagandeath

lizzyman wrote: »

So an under 23 year old can eat there but not have a drink?

No, an over 18 can purchase alcohol legally in Ireland.

ohnonotgmail

darkpagandeath wrote: »

No, an over 18 can purchase alcohol legally in Ireland.

Not if the publican doesnt want them on the premises.

darkpagandeath

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

For the avoidance of doubt it states in the Equal Status Act 2000 to 2004

Fair enough.

lizzyman

darkpagandeath wrote: »

No, an over 18 can purchase alcohol legally in Ireland.

I know, but it appears that they can (unfortunately) legally refuse to serve anyone under a certain age.

My point is, if someone under 23 walks in they can legally refuse to serve alcohol but surely they have no basis to refuse that person a soft drink and food?

ohnonotgmail

lizzyman wrote: »

I know, but it appears that they can (unfortunately) legally refuse to serve anyone under a certain age.

My point is, if someone under 23 walks in they can legally refuse to serve alcohol but surely they have no basis to refuse that person a soft drink and food?

they have right to refuse them entrance. full stop.

lizzyman

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they have right to refuse them entrance. full stop.

I don't see where refusing entrance is specified though.

(4) If—
(a) the holder of a licence or other authorisation which permits
the sale of intoxicating liquor adopts a policy of refusing
to supply intoxicating liquor to any person below a speci-
fied age which exceeds 18 years,
(b) a notice setting out the policy is displayed in a conspicuous
place in or on the exterior of the premises, and
(c) the policy is implemented in good faith,

a refusal to serve intoxicating liquor to such a person shall not consti-
tute discrimination on the age ground.

Medusa22

I don't particularly like dress codes, in any establishment. Of course I understand the reasoning behind it, especially in offices where it can be helpful to have guidelines. Having said that though, the clothes you wear should not matter, I wouldn't wear a tracksuit unless I'm going for a walk and I personally don't think it is very attractire attire in a pub but that's just my opinion. If you have the money and you behave yourself then there should be no reason not to serve someone, whether they are wearing a leopard print onesie or a tracksuit. What does it really matter?

AnonoBoy

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

according to the Vintners Federation of Ireland it is perfectly OK to put up a sign saying "YOU MUST BE OVER 23 TO BE SERVED!
as long as the policy is applied evenly and universally. Presumably they have taken legal advice in this respect.

Page 12 in the PDF below.
http://vfi.ie/files/faq.pdf

That's it. They have to have set it out clearly - for instance an over-30's night in a nightclub or the like. They can't spring from over-18's to over-30's in a few minutes because they don't want to let some young people in.

ohnonotgmail

AnonoBoy wrote: »

That's it. They have to have set it out clearly - for instance an over-30's night in a nightclub or the like. They can't spring from over-18's to over-30's in a few minutes because they don't want to let some young people in.

Indeed. but if they want to find a reason to exclude an individual it isnt normally difficult to find a reason.

ohnonotgmail

lizzyman wrote: »

I don't see where refusing entrance is specified though.

(4) If—
(a) the holder of a licence or other authorisation which permits
the sale of intoxicating liquor adopts a policy of refusing
to supply intoxicating liquor to any person below a speci-
fied age which exceeds 18 years,
(b) a notice setting out the policy is displayed in a conspicuous
place in or on the exterior of the premises, and
(c) the policy is implemented in good faith,

a refusal to serve intoxicating liquor to such a person shall not consti-
tute discrimination on the age ground.

It isnt specified there. licenced premises have a long standing right to refuse admittance/service to anybody without supplying a reason.

HalloweenJack

Boring username wrote: »

Tracksuits are usually an indicator of someone with a, how shall I put this, limited cultural outlook.

Your opinions please.

You're a snob.

I have a bachelor's degree, I've had steady employment ever since I left college, I've travelled the world, I speak four languages. Is that cultured enough for you?

I shower everyday, shave once a week (my facial hair grows at a snail's pace) and wash my hands a ridiculous amount of times. Is that sufficient effort personal grooming-wise?

Fact is I love wearing tracksuit bottoms or shorts, they're far more comfortable than any other type of clothes. There's nothing wrong with wanting comfort over appearance.

I know exactly what posters are getting at with their anti-tracksuit rants but let's not judge a book by it's cover folks. There are plenty of dress styles that don't interest me one bit but I'm not going to go out and tar them all with the same brush.

As for places having a dress code, that's fair enough and I don't have any problem with that. A part of going out for dinner that I enjoy is getting dressed up.

However, what gets on my tits in this particular case, as evidenced in the post above, is this whole anti-tracksuit brigade with their lazy generalisations.

lizzyman

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It isnt specified there. licenced premises have a long standing right to refuse admittance/service to anybody without supplying a reason.

Does this 'right' have a legal basis?

darkpagandeath

awec wrote: »

That is not the same as being legally compelled to sell it to them.

Aye, already made that distinction.

Egginacup

lizzyman wrote: »

So an under 23 year old can eat there but not have a drink?

Well if the sign says "IF YOU ARE UNDER 23 YOU WON'T BE SERVED" then I'm guessing they'll probably have to fetch the food for themselves.

I wonder would they be allowed serve themselves a pint as well

Tefral

HalloweenJack wrote: »

You're a snob.

I have a bachelor's degree, I've had steady employment ever since I left college, I've travelled the world, I speak four languages. Is that cultured enough for you?

I shower everyday, shave once a week (my facial hair grows at a snail's pace) and wash my hands a ridiculous amount of times. Is that sufficient effort personal grooming-wise?

Fact is I love wearing tracksuit bottoms or shorts, they're far more comfortable than any other type of clothes. There's nothing wrong with wanting comfort over appearance.

I know exactly what posters are getting at with their anti-tracksuit rants but let's not judge a book by it's cover folks. There are plenty of dress styles that don't interest me one bit but I'm not going to go out and tar them all with the same brush.

As for places having a dress code, that's fair enough and I don't have any problem with that. A part of going out for dinner that I enjoy is getting dressed up.

However, what gets on my tits in this particular case, as evidenced in the post above, is this whole anti-tracksuit brigade with their lazy generalisations.

Same, wear a suit pants and shirt every day for work. Love going home and putting on my Canterbury fat man pants. I'd imagine its the male equivalent to a lady taking her bra off at the end of the day ha ha..

lizzyman

Egginacup wrote: »

Well if the sign says "IF YOU ARE UNDER 23 YOU WON'T BE SERVED" then I'm guessing they'll probably have to fetch the food for themselves.

I wonder would they be allowed serve themselves a pint as well

The point I'm making is that from what I can tell you can be refused alcohol. I don't see any legal basis for refusing to sell food/soft drinks etc.