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Parent and Child Spaces

13567…11

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  • #62
    Riskymove
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,900 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    Maybe it bothers you more than you're letting on that you do indeed park in disabled spaces even when there's other spaces available?

    :rolleyes: "letting on"?

    you mean explicitly telling people of a set of circumstances where I on occasion use a space?

    and where I tell everyone I don't use them in any pother context


    yes, I really slipped up there and "let on" my position inadvertently!


  • #63
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    LDN_Irish wrote: »
    You'd have more insight in to the logistics of taking kids out of cars in car park if you'd done it, obviously. It was the "children should be able to walk beside their parent" comment thay made me think you probably don't. It's puzzling why anyone without kids would care at all because it doesn't negatively effect them, unless they're too lazy to walk an extra few metres. But you're missing something here anyway.

    If you have 1 child in a car seat then the P&C spaces may help in getting them out due to the width.

    If you have multiple children then the P&C spaces may help in less distance to move children/buggy etc to the shop. So the simplest solution if providing P&C spaces is to put them beside the shop. So that's what they do and everyone gets along grand except for the overly entitled who just have to park as close as they possibly can to the shop so they have less distance to drag them themselves.

    Gosh, I must tell all the childminders and aunts and grandparents who regularly bring children out shopping with them that they have no 'insight into the logistics' of bringing children across the car park or lifting them out of cars. Perhaps you have no 'insight' into the difficulties of elderly people carrying heavy bags of shopping or steering awkward trollies across the car park because all the spaces by the door have been taken up by parents. That is why people get annoyed by these spaces or don't see the 'simplest solution' as being to place them by the door. Oh, and I didn't say 'children should be able to walk beside their parents'. Please quote me correctly and in context when using my posts to make a point.

    And you still haven't addressed my point regarding parents with just one toddler being allowed to use these spaces.


  • #64
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    Finn Vast Snot wrote: »

    It's when people start getting aggressive and self entitled about them that the problems start. They're really just a concession, but some customers seem to think they're an essential must have.

    To be fair , the Elderly Person in these threads is like the Person With Profound But Imperceptible Disability On Public Transport that is a staple in threads about giving your seat to pregnant women.

    No offence meant, as I'm sure they exist (as does the elderly person in the OP no doubt) but they always seem to immediately rolled out as a watertight argument for disproving the notion that sometimes in society you can, you know, just let it go that somebody might gain a minor "entitlement" that is afforded to them only by the spontaneous generosity and consideration of others.


  • #65
    Sunny Dayz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭Sunny Dayz


    One afternoon, many years ago when my son was only a tot, I spotted a space free in the mother and baby section of a car park and headed for it. But a car got there before me, didn't think too much of it and just parked elsewhere. Walking past the parking space I saw the occupants get out, two obese parents with their equally obese teenagers....


  • #66
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    Riskymove wrote: »
    :rolleyes: "letting on"?

    you mean explicitly telling people of a set of circumstances where I on occasion use a space?

    and where I tell everyone I don't use them in any pother context


    yes, I really slipped up there and "let on" my position inadvertently!

    You've completely misunderstood what I said there.

    You said you weren't annoyed that people think badly of you for parking in disabled spots. I was saying that perhaps you it was annoying you more than you said.

    It was nothing to do with "your position" on the use of the spaces at all. It was solely about how it makes you feel. You were insisting you weren't a nasty person even though I hadn't suggested that you were.


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  • #67
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    anncoates wrote: »
    To be fair , the Elderly Person in these threads is like the Person With Profound But Imperceptible Disability On Public Transport that is a staple in threads about giving your seat to pregnant women.

    No offence meant, as I'm sure they exist (as does the elderly person in the OP no doubt) but they always seem to immediately rolled out as a watertight argument for disproving the notion that sometimes in society you can, you know, just let it go that somebody might gain a minor "entitlement" that is afforded to them only by the spontaneous generosity and consideration of others.

    I don't agree. There are many many elderly people who are not as nimble on their feet as they used to be, or have arthritis and other conditions associated with old age. It's not some kind of a myth or rare occurrence and it is a real issue that some supermarkets effectively forbid them from parking near the door by reserving these spaces for the more lucrative 'young family' market.


  • #68
    hoodwinked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭hoodwinked


    anyone here familiar with Wilton in Cork will know they have a group of parent and toddler spaces across the car park away from the doors, (they also have ones near the other doors by the Tesco there)

    the ones across the car park are ALWAYS full, i've even seen people park in them a few times with no children with them, where they just hop out and stroll into the center,

    what i couldn't understand is why they chose to park there with spaces empty and closer to the doors?!? what is the point in that? the spaces there are a variety, some are narrow some are wide so you can always find one that suits your vehicle, there are even lots of spaces where nobody can park next to you on one side due to the layout or trolley bays, so why park in the parent and toddler space?


  • #69
    Riskymove
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,900 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    You've completely misunderstood what I said there.

    yes I did it seems

    doesn't change my position. I chose to explain the situation and am completely happy with it in the knowledge I have never inconvenienced anyone...that is the bottom line to me. I am not annoyed at myself or anyone else

    If this clashes with some people's sensibilities on the issue as they have a different view, so be it.


  • #70
    Sunny Dayz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭Sunny Dayz


    Sorry if I'm going off topic but outside my local supermarket they have a disabled parking space. It is the nearest parking space on the street to the door. But the amount of people who decide to park BEHIND the parking space in the yellow box area behind the space is unreal. Any person who wants to park in the blue parking space would need to reverse park to get into the space then.
    (I'm abled bodied and I can't even bloody reverse park! Also there is a local fella who uses it (he is wheelchair bound) and he can reverse park into it no bother!)


  • #71
    Patser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,513 ✭✭✭Patser


    Finn Vast Snot wrote: »
    Gosh, I must tell all the childminders and aunts and grandparents who regularly bring children out shopping with them that they have no 'insight into the logistics' of bringing children across the car park. Perhaps you have no 'insight' into the difficulties of elderly people carrying heavy bags of shopping or steering awkward trollies across the car park because all the spaces by the door have been taken up by parents. That is why people get annoyed by these spaces or don't see the 'simplest solution' as being to place them by the door. Oh, and I didn't say 'children should be able to walk beside t heir parents'. Please quote me correctly and in context when using my posts to make a point.

    And you still haven't addressed my point regarding parents with just one toddler being allowed to use these spaces.

    If you're going to be so specific as to what family make up can use a p&c space - must be more than 1 toddler under set age. Can I ask what requirement you place to qualify as elderly to use your proposed spaces? Over 65 so examples like Enda Kenny, Pat Kenny now qualify as elderly, or will there be a proposed fitness test to how energetic you are. We can all agree on the 90 year old frail lady but where's your line drawn.


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  • #72
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    hoodwinked wrote: »
    anyone here familiar with Wilton in Cork will know they have a group of parent and toddler spaces across the car park away from the doors, (they also have ones near the other doors by the Tesco there)

    the ones across the car park are ALWAYS full, i've even seen people park in them a few times with no children with them, where they just hop out and stroll into the center,

    what i couldn't understand is why they chose to park there with spaces empty and closer to the doors?!? what is the point in that? the spaces there are a variety, some are narrow some are wide so you can always find one that suits your vehicle, there are even lots of spaces where nobody can park next to you on one side due to the layout or trolley bays, so why park in the parent and toddler space?

    Maybe they need the extra wide space for some reason? Buying something that will be awkward to load into the car in a tight space, or needing to lean on the car door to get out of the car due to old age, or a bad back or somesuch?


  • #73
    Triangla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Triangla


    I always park in the most user friendly spaces which are usually the ones furthest from the front door.

    The closer to the front door you get in my experience, the more you are likely to experience the muppet users of the car park.

    Before our kid was born it used to drive my wife bananas but now we have no hassle getting in and out she does the same.


  • #74
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    Patser wrote: »
    If you're going to be so specific as to what family make up can use a p&c space - must be more than 1 toddler under set age. Can I ask what requirement you place to qualify as elderly to use your proposed spaces? Over 65 so examples like Enda Kenny, Pat Kenny now qualify as elderly, or will there be a proposed fitness test to how energetic you are. We can all agree on the 90 year old frail lady but where's your line drawn.

    Where did I say people had to qualify to be elderly? I quite clearly said that I could understand the need for extra wide spaces but that they shouldn't be beside the door, therefore freeing up those spaces and meaning elderly people weren't barred from using them. I never stated that they should be 'reserved' for elderly people.


  • #75
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    Finn Vast Snot wrote: »
    I don't agree. There are many many elderly people who are not as nimble on their feet as they used to be, or have arthritis and other conditions associated with old age. It's not some kind of a myth or rare occurrence and it is a real issue that some supermarkets effectively forbid them from parking near the door by reserving these spaces for the more lucrative 'young family' market.

    Kinda convenient though isn't it, that this vast phalanx of elderly indigents has thoroughly debunked the validity of P&C spaces on private property so we can all use the spaces without guilt?

    Like the millions of people with profound illnesses - but who look able bodied and healthy - on public transport who make it pointless for anybody to give up their seats for pregnant or elderly passengers.


  • #76
    LDN_Irish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭LDN_Irish


    Finn Vast Snot wrote: »
    Gosh, I must tell all the childminders and aunts and grandparents who regularly bring children out shopping with them that they have no 'insight into the logistics' of bringing children across the car park or lifting them out of cars. Perhaps you have no 'insight' into the difficulties of elderly people carrying heavy bags of shopping or steering awkward trollies across the car park because all the spaces by the door have been taken up by parents. That is why people get annoyed by these spaces or don't see the 'simplest solution' as being to place them by the door. Oh, and I didn't say 'children should be able to walk beside their parents'. Please quote me correctly and in context when using my posts to make a point.

    In what way have I quoted you out of context? And yes, apologies. I should have said guardians rather than parents. Should be G&C spaces really but the DM readers would lose the head.
    Finn Vast Snot wrote: »
    And you still haven't addressed my point regarding parents with just one toddler being allowed to use these spaces.

    Oh sorry, I don't care. I'm only fairly sad rather than full blown. I don't think you answered why it is you care?


  • #77
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Menas wrote: »
    I have lost the head a couple of times where people have wrongly parked in those spaces.
    Now, I would not be losing it wiht an elderly person...but someone younger - yes....
    Why should older people get a free pass to act like a dick? I am an older person, and have no problem respecting disabled parking places and parent & child parking spaces. If I'm well enough to walk around shops, I'm well enough to walk from the car park.

    If I become more decrepit, I will seek a disabled permit (or somebody to bear a child for me).


  • #78
    hoodwinked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭hoodwinked


    Finn Vast Snot wrote: »
    Maybe they need the extra wide space for some reason? Buying something that will be awkward to load into the car in a tight space, or needing to lean on the car door to get out of the car due to old age, or a bad back or somesuch?

    nope because there are regular spaces across the road (nearer the center) where they'd have no one parked next to them, so if it was extra wide space they needed surely nobody parked next to them is preferential,


    likewise for leaning on a car door,


  • #79
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Why should older people get a free pass to act like a dick? I am an older person, and have no problem respecting disabled parking places and parent & child parking spaces. If I'm well enough to walk around shops, I'm well enough to walk from the car park.

    If I become more decrepit, I will seek a disabled permit (or somebody to bear a child for me).

    You don't get a disabled permit simply because you're old and a bit decrepit. That's why a bit of courtesy should be extended to elderly people and spaces by the door shouldn't be reserved for the sole use of parents with children.


  • #80
    marcbrophy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,662 ✭✭✭marcbrophy


    Finn Vast Snot wrote: »
    Just wondering how seriously posters on here take them?
    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    go shop somewhere else

    :pac:

    Pretty serious OP


  • #81
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    LDN_Irish wrote: »
    In what way have I quoted you out of context? And yes, apologies. I should have said guardians rather than parents. Should be G&C spaces really but the DM readers would lose the head.



    Oh sorry, I don't care. I'm only fairly sad rather than full blown. I don't think you answered why it is you care?

    I did answer why I care if you read my post properly. And you misquoted me. I said that when children get to a certain age they are capable of walking beside their parents and not running off, not that toddlers are capable of walking beside their parents.

    Anyway, you still haven't addressed the central point in my post that kicked of this bilateral, but let's just leave it there.


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  • #82
    Patser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,513 ✭✭✭Patser


    Finn Vast Snot wrote: »
    Where did I say people had to qualify to be elderly? I quite clearly said that I could understand the need for extra wide spaces but that they shouldn't be beside the door, therefore freeing up those spaces and meaning elderly people weren't barred from using them. I never stated that they should be 'reserved' for elderly people.

    You countered to suggestion of having reserved spaces for parents near doors by repeatedly using the elderly as also having a similar need. I assumed you were suggesting there should be a similar reservation held for them. Are you suggesting nothing be reserved for either and everybody gets to use them, those with specific needs ignored


  • #83
    LDN_Irish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭LDN_Irish


    Finn Vast Snot wrote: »
    Oh, and I didn't say 'children should be able to walk beside their parents'. Please quote me correctly and in context when using my posts/quote]
    Finn Vast Snot wrote: »
    And certainly, once children reach a certain age, they should be capable of walking beside their parents and understanding that they can't run off.

    Oh yeah, I completely changed the whole meaning with my paraphrasing there :D


  • #84
    Rubberlegs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,073 ✭✭✭Rubberlegs


    There are 16 wheelchair spaces at my local Tesco. Once in a blue moon I'd see a car parked there. I'd never park in one myself there or anywhere else, regardless of if they were all free. I'm eternally grateful the parent and child spaces are close to the shop entrance. I've a 3 yr old who is wired to the moon, she could try to leg it or be throwing a strop, so the less distance I have to get into the shop is a help. I wouldn't like to be shepherding more than one of her across a crowded car park ! I'm also glad the spaces are extra wide, it is needed. One of mine have often thrown the door of the car wide open, if there was another right beside us, they would have caught it. Also you need that extra room to manoeuvre a child out of a seat, and into a buggy if you are using one. It's safest to do that to the side of the car rather than at the back of it. I'd never use a p&c space if I hadn't a child with me. If I'm just running in myself and leaving the little one with an older sibling, I won't use one then either. I have no problem walking across a car park myself. Some people are so lazy they would drive into the shop if they could !


  • #85
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    marcbrophy wrote: »
    :pac:

    Pretty serious OP

    Yes, beginning to realise that!


  • #86
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    LDN_Irish wrote: »
    Finn Vast Snot wrote: »
    Oh, and I didn't say 'children should be able to walk beside their parents'. Please quote me correctly and in context when using my posts/quote]



    Oh yeah, I completely changed the whole meaning with my paraphrasing there :D

    Well you did actually.


  • #87
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    Patser wrote: »
    You countered to suggestion of having reserved spaces for parents near doors by repeatedly using the elderly as also having a similar need. I assumed you were suggesting there should be a similar reservation held for them. Are you suggesting nothing be reserved for either and everybody gets to use them, those with specific needs ignored

    I think disabled spaces should exist. I don't think other spaces at the door should be reserved for one group with specific needs over another. Wide spaces in the main body of the car park would address parents' need for lifting toddlers out. With a pathway to the shop provided, only the most inadequate parents would be incapable of getting their children safely into the store.
    That way there would be at least some possibility of elderly people sometimes being able to get a place by the door.

    Ideally extra wide spaces should just be that, without a specific group specified as being allowed to use them. I would rarely need one so wouldn't take up a space there, but some people need to open the door wide to ease out of a car or get something cumbersome in and out of the car.


  • #88
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    Patser wrote: »
    Are you suggesting nothing be reserved for either and everybody gets to use them, those with specific needs ignored

    Generally speaking, the whole point of the endless edge cases trotted out in these threads - although never admitted - is to safely discredit the notion (in this case, reserved parking) to the extent that one's guilt is assuaged when they ignore it.


  • #89
    LDN_Irish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭LDN_Irish


    Finn Vast Snot wrote: »

    Well you did actually.

    No, I didn't. Because rather than making some point to use against you I was merely explaining why I thought you didn't have children. Do you?


  • #90
    Patser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,513 ✭✭✭Patser


    Finn Vast Snot wrote: »
    I think disabled spaces should exist. I don't think other spaces at the door should be reserved for one group with specific needs over another. Wide spaces in the main body of the car park would address parents' need for lifting toddlers out. With a pathway to the shop provided, only the most inadequate parents would be incapable of getting their children safely into the store.
    That way there would be at least some possibility of elderly people sometimes being able to get a place by the door.

    Ideally extra wide spaces should just be that, without a specific group specified as being allowed to use them. I would rarely need one so wouldn't take up a space there, but some people need to open the door wide to ease out of a car or get something cumbersome in and out of the car.

    So sometimes you might be able to get a space for your needs, if you're lucky but while now competing with everyone else, especially staff who'll be 1st ones there in the morning and delighted to park close to their shop (convenience and able to keep eye on car)

    Meanwhile toddlers will have to walk in from much further down the car park on footpaths the centre will have to provide. Again going back to my example car park - Liffeyvalley - the vast majority of spaces do not connect with a footpath.

    Also you can be sure those extra wide spaces will fill with people precious of their lovely car and delighted not to have door dings to worry about. Me for example, I'd happily be looking for extra wide, unreserved parking near door.


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  • #91
    Cienciano
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,131 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Finn Vast Snot wrote: »
    I don't agree. There are many many elderly people who are not as nimble on their feet as they used to be, or have arthritis and other conditions associated with old age. It's not some kind of a myth or rare occurrence and it is a real issue that some supermarkets effectively forbid them from parking near the door by reserving these spaces for the more lucrative 'young family' market.
    You mean disabled people? They're already provided for with disabled bays.


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