Parent and Child Spaces

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Just witnessed a big row outside Tesco between a woman with two young children and an elderly woman, because the elderly woman took the last P&C space. I was a bit gobsmacked as I didn't think people took those spaces that seriously. I've parked in them myself once or twice when the car park was full, or if I'm shopping late in the evening and they're mostly empty.

Just wondering how seriously posters on here take them?

Guy:Incognito

The shop owns the car park. They set the rules. If you dont want to follow their rules, go shop somewhere else.

I'm sure you expect people to follow your rules on your property.

Menas

I have lost the head a couple of times where people have wrongly parked in those spaces.
Now, I would not be losing it wiht an elderly person...but someone younger - yes.

The thing is that if you park in a normal parking spot and have a baby in one of those isofix removable seats...then there is not enough room in a normal parking spot to remove the baby without banging your door against the car beside you. So you end up having to remove the baby before you get in the spot. Put the seat in the buggy and then get back in the car and park it.
This is not a problem with the bigger 'parent and child' spots.

Now, for older kids who dont need prams - no need to be parking in those spots.

eviltwin

Put them down the end of the car park, see how many people want to use them then.

I understand that the argument for this is that it gives parents space to open a door fully to remove a car seat but I don't buy that. Unless car park spaces have shrunk in the past 20 years.

Joeseph Balls

Finn Vast Snot wrote: »

Just witnessed a big row outside Tesco between a woman with two young children and an elderly woman, because the elderly woman took the last P&C space. I was a bit gobsmacked as I didn't think people took those spaces that seriously. I've parked in them myself once or twice when the car park was full, or if I'm shopping late in the evening and they're mostly empty.

Just wondering how seriously posters on here take them?

I'm healthy so I don't use them unless the baby is with me. I've no problem if an older person or injured person uses them. What I do hate is some middle aged man, fag in mouth, pull up in his new BMW or similar but its not like its against the law or anything...

c68zapdsm5i1ru

I agree they should not be up at the door. You can provide extra wide spaces anywhere in the car park. In any event I have often seen elderly people have to open the door to it's full width in order to ease themselves out of the car.

Guy:Incognito

eviltwin wrote: »

Unless car park spaces have shrunk in the past 20 years.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4045/4367498597_ec4f72e848_o.jpg

biko

Tbh, try go shopping with 2 small kids. It can be a nightmare and anything the shop can do to alleviate that is good imo.

AnonoBoy

eviltwin wrote: »

Unless car park spaces have shrunk in the past 20 years.

I think they have. But that might be like when you go to your grandparents house and you realise that the furniture that used to look huge is now tiny.

eviltwin

Finn Vast Snot wrote: »

I agree they should not be up at the door. You can provide extra wide spaces anywhere in the car park. In any event I have often seen elderly people have to open the door to it's full width in order to ease themselves out of the car.

In my local Tesco the spaces closest to the door are Parent and Child, the disabled spaces are behind them. I don't understand that but its all about getting people in the door to buy your products. They should be down the end of the car park though, the lazy sods who steal them wouldn't bother and that would leave them free for parents with small kids.

pippip

eviltwin wrote: »

Put them down the end of the car park, see how many people want to use them then.

I understand that the argument for this is that it gives parents space to open a door fully to remove a car seat but I don't buy that. Unless car park spaces have shrunk in the past 20 years.

No but cars have got bigger, alot bigger.

Uriel.

eviltwin wrote: »

Put them down the end of the car park, see how many people want to use them then.

I understand that the argument for this is that it gives parents space to open a door fully to remove a car seat but I don't buy that. Unless car park spaces have shrunk in the past 20 years.

I don't have any kids and I don't have experience of taking kids in and out of car seats etc, but there are a so many car parks around the place which seem to have very narrow parking spaces that I would not be at all surprised if this was a genuine problem for parents or carers of small children.

kylith

eviltwin wrote: »

In my local Tesco the spaces closest to the door are Parent and Child, the disabled spaces are behind them. I don't understand that but its all about getting people in the door to buy your products. They should be down the end of the car park though, the lazy sods who steal them wouldn't bother and that would leave them free for parents with small kids.

Whatever about the wheelchair bound, I wouldn't like to hop all the way across a carpark on crutches, or to try shepherd two children across a busy one.

Gatling

The mother was an idiot in this case .
Wonder if it was entitlement vs need that caused the problem

Patser

Having p&c parking in front of shop usually means there's also a footpath kids and buggies can safely be put on while getting whatever paraphernalia you need out of the car. And you'll be amazed the crap you end up carrying.

Putting them on far side of car park means having Toddlers possibly wandering into roadways. Doesn't look good for a shopping centre to be in news for kiddie death rates.

MarkR

Might give out to someone parking without a badge in a disabled spot. Wouldn't bother with a parent and child spot. And i've a kid with special needs who can be a handful sometimes! I prefer when they put the parent / child spots away from the door. The worst I've seen are lidl and tesco. People not even in spots, but parked on double yellow lines right outside the door.

Gatling

Patser wrote: »

Doesn't look good for a shopping centre to be in news for kiddie death rates.

Are you for real

c68zapdsm5i1ru

I would actually see elderly people as having an equal, if not greater, need of spaces beside the door, and extra wide spaces. Maybe supermarkets should just have a bay of extra wide spaces without specifying that they're for people with children. I know you'd still get some thoughtless people using them who don't need them, but they'd be available for old people who struggle to get out of a car or for people who have to put awkward or large parcels in and out of the car and other shoppers who might occasionally need an extra wide space.

Riverireland

kylith wrote: »

Whatever about the wheelchair bound, I wouldn't like to hop all the way across a carpark on crutches, or to try shepherd two children across a busy one.

My neighbours, mother and daughter both have wheelchair parking stickers on their cars. The mother did have an accident about 15 years ago but they have never used a wheelchair. No need for them to be taking up disabled parking.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Riverireland wrote: »

My neighbours, mother and daughter both have wheelchair parking stickers on their cars. The mother did have an accident about 15 years ago but they have never used a wheelchair. No need for them to be taking up disabled parking.

My father had a disabled sticker and never used a wheelchair in his life. He did, however, have severe lung problems which made it difficult to walk very far. Disabilities aren't always immediately obvious and don't always involve needing a wheelchair. It's actually very difficult to get a blue badge.

Patser

Gatling wrote: »

Are you for real

Why? Because putting parents with multiple kids on furthest side of car park isn't the safest option. Imagine having 3 kids under 6 (I don't) but trying to keep them.all together across a car park (let's say Liffey valleys car park) on a busy day. You have to see the inherent risk there, or at least the annoyance to the parent.

As opposed to p&c parking near the entrance with a footpath immediately beside the car -
again Liffeyvalley as example. Kids immediately out of traffic.

kylith

Riverireland wrote: »

My neighbours, mother and daughter both have wheelchair parking stickers on their cars. The mother did have an accident about 15 years ago but they have never used a wheelchair. No need for them to be taking up disabled parking.

Finn Vast Snot wrote: »

My father had a disabled sticker and never used a wheelchair in his life. He did, however, have severe lung problems which made it difficult to walk very far. Disabilities aren't always immediately obvious and don't always involve needing a wheelchair. It's actually very difficult to get a blue badge.

And my cousin has a prosthetic leg. You wouldn't notice anything more than a limp if you saw her, but she certainly finds the handicapped spaces a help.

freshpopcorn

Riverireland wrote: »

My neighbours, mother and daughter both have wheelchair parking stickers on their cars. The mother did have an accident about 15 years ago but they have never used a wheelchair. No need for them to be taking up disabled parking.

That drives me absolutely mad. They don't have a wheel chair, so why do they have a disability badge.

Generic Dreadhead

Finn Vast Snot wrote: »

Just witnessed a big row outside Tesco between a woman with two young children and an elderly woman, because the elderly woman took the last P&C space.

Old people acting entitled? No Way :eek:

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Patser wrote: »

Why? Because putting parents with multiple kids on furthest side of car park isn't the safest option. Imagine having 3 kids under 6 (I don't) but trying to keep them.all together across a car park (let's say Liffey valleys car park) on a busy day. You have to see the inherent risk there, or at least the annoyance to the parent.

As opposed to p&c parking near the entrance with a footpath immediately beside the car -
again Liffeyvalley as example. Kids immediately out of traffic.

If you put a trolley bay and a pathway beside the spaces then there's no extra risk to the children, and spaces by the door are freed up so elderly people also have access to them.

cocker5

freshpopcorn wrote: »

That drives me absolutely mad. They don't have a wheel chair, so why do they have a disability badge.

A disability badge is NOT reserved for people in wheel chairs.. its for people with a disability.. hence the name.

My father had a major stroke 15 years ago, mobility is pretty bad, although he doesn't use a wheel chair he is very slow to move and unsteady on his feet - he has a badge.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

freshpopcorn wrote: »

That drives me absolutely mad. They don't have a wheel chair, so why do they have a disability badge.

As I said earlier, you don't need a wheelchair to be disabled and not able to walk very far. They're not 'wheelchair' spaces, they're 'disabled' spaces and are available to people with breathing problems, hip problems, parents with badly autistic children amongst others.

Cienciano

eviltwin wrote: »

Put them down the end of the car park, see how many people want to use them then.

I understand that the argument for this is that it gives parents space to open a door fully to remove a car seat but I don't buy that. Unless car park spaces have shrunk in the past 20 years.

Cars have gotten bigger. And the problem is the distance across the car park.

Finn Vast Snot wrote: »

I would actually see elderly people as having an equal, if not greater, need of spaces beside the door, and extra wide spaces. Maybe supermarkets should just have a bay of extra wide spaces without specifying that they're for people with children. I know you'd still get some thoughtless people using them who don't need them, but they'd be available for old people who struggle to get out of a car or for people who have to put awkward or large parcels in and out of the car and other shoppers who might occasionally need an extra wide space.

Thing is, they're just abused by everyone (the spaces, not the kids)
Shops near me have about 4 disabled spaces and they're always full. People are just unbelievably lazy when it comes to parking. The next row back, 10m away can be empty, but people will park in the disabled spaces.
People drive around car parks trying to get the closest space, when 2 or 3 rows back is completely empty. The idea of walking that extra 30m is unthinkable.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Parking in a disabled space without a blue badge is despicable behaviour and not in any way comparable to parking in a P&C space.

LDN_Irish

Finn Vast Snot wrote: »

Parking in a disabled space without a blue badge is despicable behaviour and not in any way comparable to parking in a P&C space.

Disabled spaces are for disabled people. People without disabilities shouldn't park there.

P&C spaces are for people with children. People without children shouldn't park there.

So, really quite comparable but the latter isn't as serious as the former. Not that I really give a ****, I rarely park in P&C's even when I have the kids with me for some reason. Amazing to me how contentious they are.

anncoates

As opposed to disabled spaces, it's just a courtesy extended by the shop because it's handier to have more space to get baby seats and whatever out of a car especially considering the selfish way people often park plus they're often closer to the entrance presumably to facilitate buggies, kids whatever.

I tend to leave them free for others because my kids are older now but don't really think about it much beyond that.

It being Ireland though, some people without kids will be inflamed with a maniacal urge to park in them purely as a fervent expression of their human right to be 15 yards closer to a shop entrance in the summer.

Riskymove

Finn Vast Snot wrote: »

Parking in a disabled space without a blue badge is despicable behaviour and not in any way comparable to parking in a P&C space.

it is never black and white

my local tescos has around 24 disabled parking spots.

There is rarely more than 1 or 2 occupied

If I am having a quick stop I see no issue. I wouldn't us it if there were limited spaces.

freshpopcorn

cocker5 wrote: »

A disability badge is NOT reserved for people in wheel chairs.. its for people with a disability.. hence the name.

My father had a major stroke 15 years ago, mobility is pretty bad, although he doesn't use a wheel chair he is very slow to move and unsteady on his feet - he has a badge.

I think my post came across wrong. I know people who has the badge for there cars and they have many different types of disability.
What annoys me is people who gives out about people like this.
I hope that makes sense.

AnonoBoy

Riskymove wrote: »

it is never black and white

my local tescos has around 24 disabled parking spots.

There is rarely more than 1 or 2 occupied

If I am having a quick stop I see no issue. I wouldn't us it if there were limited spaces.

So would you use a disabled spot when there's other spaces available?

SEPT 23 1989

the blue rinse brigade think they own the place

Riskymove

AnonoBoy wrote: »

So would you use a disabled spot when there's other spaces available?

I have set out my position on the particular circumstances

I wouldn't use one where I believed I would actually inconvenience someone who needed it

freshpopcorn

Finn Vast Snot wrote: »

As I said earlier, you don't need a wheelchair to be disabled and not able to walk very far. They're not 'wheelchair' spaces, they're 'disabled' spaces and are available to people with breathing problems, hip problems, parents with badly autistic children amongst others.

I think my post came across wrong. What annoys me is when people don't accept different types of disabilities in order to have a badge.

AnonoBoy

Riskymove wrote: »

I have set out my position on the particular circumstances

I wouldn't use one where I believed I would actually inconvenience someone who needed it

So you would still use one when there were plenty of other spaces available then, yes?

Gatling

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

the blue rinse brigade think they own the place

Unlike the mothers

anncoates

Riskymove wrote: »

it is never black and white

my local tescos has around 24 disabled parking spots.

There is rarely more than 1 or 2 occupied

If I am having a quick stop I see no issue. I wouldn't us it if there were limited spaces.

This has been done to death in here but disabled spaces work on goodwill. A small number of **** wrongly parking in them doesn't matter because the majority of people leave them free for disabled users.

If they didn't, there's a very high chance there would be no space for a disabled user when needed.

So yeah, you probably won't inconvenience a disabled user if you're in the minority of **** that are afforded the opportunity to park wrongly there by the goodwill of the majority of society

Patser

Finn Vast Snot wrote: »

If you put a trolley bay and a pathway beside the spaces then there's no extra risk to the children, and spaces by the door are freed up so elderly people also have access to them.

I'm not suggesting this as an either/or, by all means have both. My initial reply was to the suggestion to put p&c as far away as possible to see who really wants them.

The risk to kids still remains if having to cross a busy car park. I agree footpath helps.

ThisRegard

Uriel. wrote: »

all surprised if this was a genuine problem for parents or carers of small children.

It's a pain in the ass in some places where the space are narrow. Those spaces make it easier to get the kids out, and most importantly for some people, the car door isn't bashed or pushed against the neighbouring car in the process.

Medusa22

Riverireland wrote: »

My neighbours, mother and daughter both have wheelchair parking stickers on their cars. The mother did have an accident about 15 years ago but they have never used a wheelchair. No need for them to be taking up disabled parking.

kylith wrote: »

And my cousin has a prosthetic leg. You wouldn't notice anything more than a limp if you saw her, but she certainly finds the handicapped spaces a help.

freshpopcorn wrote: »

That drives me absolutely mad. They don't have a wheel chair, so why do they have a disability badge.

As others have already said, being disabled and being in a wheelchair are not necessarily the same thing, you can be disabled and not be in a wheelchair, those spots should really be called 'reduced mobility spaces'. I have a disabled badge and I am not in a wheelchair, and there are many other people like me who have genuine reasons to have disabled badges but are able to walk. I have Cystic Fibrosis which is a lung condition and there are days when I find it difficult to walk very far because I feel unwell and I'm out of breath, and sometimes I have an exacerbation and then it is difficult to do much walking at all, and having the badge means that I can get much closer to the shopping centre or closer to the pharmacy or wherever I'm going. I've had a woman shout at me not to be parked in a disabled space before when I was coming back from the pharmacy with a bag full of medication and I absolutely lost it with her. Some people abuse the badges, of course, using them when their ill relative isn't in the car, but if I see a badge on a car in a disabled space, I don't say anything, even if the person getting out of the car looks healthy, because if you were to look at me you'd have no idea that I have an illness.

Riskymove

AnonoBoy wrote: »

So you would still use one when there were plenty of other spaces available then, yes?

I have now twice answered setting out my position....how many times would you like?

If 20 odd spaces are left empty and never used to satisfy the world view of some people then so be it.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

To be honest, there seems to be a bit of confusion regarding the purpose of these spaces. Some people seem to believe it's solely to provide extra wide spaces for lifting car seats and toddlers out of cars. Others think it's to allow parents to park at the door and avoid having to steer toddlers across the car park.

The former makes sense but spaces should not be at the door.

The latter only really makes sense if it's confined to parents travelling with 2 or 3 toddlers. Steering or carrying one toddler across a car park is no big deal. Bringing two toddlers across isn't either if both parents are present. Carrying a baby across the car park isn't dangerous. And certainly, once children reach a certain age, they should be capable of walking beside their parents and understanding that they can't run off.

cocker5

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I think my post came across wrong. I know people who has the badge for there cars and they have many different types of disability.
What annoys me is people who gives out about people like this.
I hope that makes sense.

Yip I see what your saying

I suppose people look and see someone not confined to a wheel and think they dont have a disability or somehow they have swindled a badge and then they judge or get angry.. i suppose its a vicous circle.

My dad doesn't actually drive, i drive him around, so i have his badge in my car.

i have never parked in a disability space when he is not with me (and rightly so) and to be honest sometimes when he is i still dont use them its depends on when I'm bringing him and if its raining etc...

c68zapdsm5i1ru

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I think my post came across wrong. What annoys me is when people don't accept different types of disabilities in order to have a badge.

Sorry, I realise what you meant now.

AnonoBoy

Riskymove wrote: »

I have now twice answered setting out my position....how many times would you like?

Well you actually haven't answered my question directly but I can guess the answer. Don't worry I'm pretty sure I know your type alright.

Also - if there's 20 disabled spots at your local Tesco - how many other spots are there? How many other spots are empty when those 20 disabled spots are empty?

Riskymove

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Well you actually haven't answered my question directly but I can guess the answer. Don't worry I'm pretty sure I know your type alright.

I have answered it....twice

I know your type too...determined to be outraged and label people

LDN_Irish

Finn Vast Snot wrote: »

To be honest, there seems to be a bit of confusion regarding the purpose of these spaces. Some people seem to believe it's solely to provide extra wide spaces for lifting car seats and toddlers out of cars. Others think it's to allow parents to park at the door and avoid having to steer toddlers across the car park.

The former makes sense but spaces should not be at the door.

The latter only really makes sense if it's confined to parents travelling with 2 or 3 toddlers. Steering or carrying one toddler across a car park is no big deal. Bringing two toddlers across isn't either if both parents are present. Carrying a baby across the car park isn't dangerous. And certainly, once children reach a certain age, they should be capable of walking beside their parents and understanding that they can't run off.

I'm not really understanding your point here. Do you want all the P&C spaces moved? What's the point? Do you have kids yourself?

Riskymove

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Also - if there's 20 disabled spots at your local Tesco - how many other spots are there? How many other spots are empty when those 20 disabled spots are empty?

actually it can be quite full with only the disabled spots free, or some distance away

tbh it doesn't really matter, I can see you are only concerned with getting enough info for a black and white labeling of me from your ivory tower

I have set out the position on when I might actually use one of these spots. I don't use disabled spaces in any other context.