The 2015 All Ireland Senior Football Championship

dcrosskid · 02-07-2015 04:29PM

Michael Murphy scored a massive point last weekend, he was nearly 10 yards behind. the 45 & cleared it with a bit to spare. Absolute class.

Dr Crippen · 02-07-2015 04:34PM

Yeah he is exceptional at it in fairness, the gooch, too many Dublin players to mention, but throughout all the counties they are like hens teeth, or maybe its match day nerves, who knows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iS6V4cduZk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXEONcn_4XM

keane2097 · 02-07-2015 04:52PM

I'm not sure I'm following the argument properly but if ye're saying players were way better at kicking points from 50 yards in the good old days ye're talking a load of ****e IMO.

Jayop · 02-07-2015 05:10PM

It's the old "skills of the game being lost" argument. It's completely wrong too. I'd say any county panel from the top 3 divisions would probably win 10 in a row in the 60's with the current skill sets and conditioning.

The reason people say players can't foot pass now is because they don't like all the hand passing. Players now only foot pass when it's on whereas in the olden days they just launched it up the field aimlessly.

Same with the shooting. People don't realise that the average scoring in games is going up all the time so shooting must be improving despite defensive set ups.

Between 1960 - 1964 the AI finals had 124 points scored
Between 2010 - 2014 the AI finals had 154 points scored

That's 6 points per game more on average.

K-9 · 02-07-2015 05:38PM

Sure the Down team 60 & 61 ruined the game for the traditionalists, the death knell of Gaelic football with all that breaking ball in midfield stuff.

Dr Crippen · 02-07-2015 06:00PM

keane2097 wrote: »

I'm not sure I'm following the argument properly but if ye're saying players were way better at kicking points from 50 yards in the good old days ye're talking a load of ****e IMO.

No your not actually, I included a Michael Murphy clip, I'm saying accuracy and time spent on it in training has reduced, imo

Jayop · 02-07-2015 07:19PM

K-9 wrote: »

Sure the Down team 60 & 61 ruined the game for the traditionalists, the death knell of Gaelic football with all that breaking ball in midfield stuff.

Typical northerners. tsk tsk

keane2097 · 02-07-2015 07:35PM

Dr Crippen wrote: »

No your not actually, I included a Michael Murphy clip, I'm saying accuracy and time spent on it in training has reduced, imo

But you're not saying players are worse at it than before?

Farmer Pudsey · 02-07-2015 07:52PM

Jayop wrote: »

It's the old "skills of the game being lost" argument. It's completely wrong too. I'd say any county panel from the top 3 divisions would probably win 10 in a row in the 60's with the current skill sets and conditioning.

The reason people say players can't foot pass now is because they don't like all the hand passing. Players now only foot pass when it's on whereas in the olden days they just launched it up the field aimlessly.

Same with the shooting. People don't realise that the average scoring in games is going up all the time so shooting must be improving despite defensive set ups.

Between 1960 - 1964 the AI finals had 124 points scored
Between 2010 - 2014 the AI finals had 154 points scored

That's 6 points per game more on average.

The gap is not as wide as you think I think it was a 60 minute game then as opposed to a 70 minute now. Allowing for that in 60-64 they would have scored 145 points.

When you take fitness and that the they were using a leather ball back then as opposed to a synethic now that will be fairly water resistance and it changes the perpective. Add to that that the consistancy of the the footballs nowdays by O'Neills means that the ball a player practices with at training is an exact replica of the ball that is thrown in every Sunday. Every leather ball was different leather would have slightly different thickness and imperfections. The modern inter county ground has a perfect surface and Croke Park is in a league of it own. 180 points was the total from 70-74 (still 30 minutes halves, I think), 80-84 was only 126, 148 points from 90-94, 139 points scored from 00-04.

There are lies damm lies and stastics. You have to factor in goals scored, the dominace of teams, winning margin. The amount of frees that were scored in games.

In practice if you put an average inter county player outside the 45 meter line with ten balls how many would he score, I gamble that the average intercounty player of the 60's and 70's would score more because that was how he warmed up.

K-9 · 02-07-2015 08:43PM

Good post.

We had 80 minutes final for a few years as well.

cj maxx · 02-07-2015 09:23PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

It is quite obivious that Donegal and Dublin are the best football teams in the country with Mayo and Cork the next best teams. One of these four are going to colect Sam

I wouldnt put cork in that bracket , mayo ( i think) are only slightly sbove donegal/ monghan and tyrone ( the latter two on a really good day ) not much in it . Dublin and kerry are outbon their own . Cork wont haveva say in it

Farmer Pudsey · 02-07-2015 09:27PM

cjmc wrote: »

I wouldnt put cork in that bracket , mayo ( i think) are only slightly sbove donegal/ monghan and tyrone ( the latter two on a really good day ) not much in it . Dublin and kerry are outbon their own . Cork wont haveva say in it

shhhh..........keep quite about *****

Dirty Dingus McGee · 02-07-2015 10:35PM

The game is much more defensive oriented these days in that teams actually make an effort to have some real defensive organisation yet scoring has pretty much stayed the same (if anything it's increased slightly) since the game went to 70 minutes which pretty much gives an indication that the skill level of the forwards has increased.Defenders skill has also increased as defenders these days are actually proper footballers who you wouldn't be terrified at the prospect of them having a shot at goals like you would have in the past.Even in the 990's I don't remember defenders being as skilful footballers as they are now.

The idea that players these days can't kick long range scores but they could in the past is pure nonsense.Scores from close to the 45 are rare because they are extremely difficult to execute and there definitely wasn't a huge amount of scores kicked from long range in the past but edited highlight showing only the best scores gives the impression those types of scores were much more common than the really were.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 02-07-2015 10:54PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The gap is not as wide as you think I think it was a 60 minute game then as opposed to a 70 minute now. Allowing for that in 60-64 they would have scored 145 points.

When you take fitness and that the they were using a leather ball back then as opposed to a synethic now that will be fairly water resistance and it changes the perpective. Add to that that the consistancy of the the footballs nowdays by O'Neills means that the ball a player practices with at training is an exact replica of the ball that is thrown in every Sunday. Every leather ball was different leather would have slightly different thickness and imperfections. The modern inter county ground has a perfect surface and Croke Park is in a league of it own. 180 points was the total from 70-74 (still 30 minutes halves, I think), 80-84 was only 126, 148 points from 90-94, 139 points scored from 00-04.

There are lies damm lies and stastics. You have to factor in goals scored, the dominace of teams, winning margin. The amount of frees that were scored in games.

In practice if you put an average inter county player outside the 45 meter line with ten balls how many would he score, I gamble that the average intercounty player of the 60's and 70's would score more because that was how he warmed up.

Players in the past though when shooting for scores had oceans of time and space to do so.It was much easier in the past to be a good footballer as players were given the freedom to do what the wanted and all you had to do was get the better of the man marking you, now you have to get the better of an organised disciplined defence as well as your man marker.

If you put a modern forward into a team from the 1990's he'd completely destroy the defence and think he was in heaven due to the amount of time and space he'd have.

Farmer Pudsey · 02-07-2015 11:09PM

Nobody is saying that players are not fitter or faster now. Neither are we saying that a team from 20, 30 or 40 years ago would beat a team now. This is true of any sport whether it is football, hurling, soccer, rugby or hockey.

We are talking about skill level. Take freetaking when you go beyond about 30 metres there are less and less free takers capable of scoring. The reason is two fold first no youngster spends time taking frees off the ground and again kicking ability is declining. Goalies now are bought out to take frees from 40 yards and beyond as most out field players cannot take a long range free.

North of 32 · 03-07-2015 12:44AM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

We are talking about skill level. Take freetaking when you go beyond about 30 metres there are less and less free takers capable of scoring. The reason is two fold first no youngster spends time taking frees off the ground and again kicking ability is declining. Goalies now are bought out to take frees from 40 yards and beyond as most out field players cannot take a long range free.

I'd be willing to stake that kicking ability is the same as it always was.

Though I never understood why people think goalkeepers taking frees is a bad thing. He's a player just like any other. Why shouldn't he hit frees? In fact, given that kicking is one of their key skills, it makes sense for them to hit frees if they're good at them.

keane2097 · 03-07-2015 12:52AM

All of the skills are better now than they've ever been. The opposite notion is laughable.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 03-07-2015 05:48AM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Nobody is saying that players are not fitter or faster now. Neither are we saying that a team from 20, 30 or 40 years ago would beat a team now. This is true of any sport whether it is football, hurling, soccer, rugby or hockey.

We are talking about skill level. Take freetaking when you go beyond about 30 metres there are less and less free takers capable of scoring. The reason is two fold first no youngster spends time taking frees off the ground and again kicking ability is declining. Goalies now are bought out to take frees from 40 yards and beyond as most out field players cannot take a long range free.

Which means goalies are much more skillful than they were in the past.If a goalkeeper is the best free taker on a team than he should be taking them.There are plenty of goo freetakers playing outfield but in most sports it would be seen as a good thing that the goalkeeper had such a high level of ball skills.

Its a waste of time for young players to spend time kicking off the ground as it isn't a required skill anymore and doesn't help any other part of their game at least practicing free from the hands will help their shooting from play.

Skill is abut executing at pace and speed been a junior b footballer can grasp all the skills of the game at a slow pace with nobody marking him but the faster the game is the more skilful a player must become.

Nidgeweasel · 03-07-2015 06:26AM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

a junior b footballer can grasp all the skills of the game at a slow pace with nobody marking him

Plenty cant.

Farmer Pudsey · 03-07-2015 10:13AM

keane2097 wrote: »

All of the skills are better now than they've ever been. The opposite notion is laughable.

Alot of poster are mixing fitness levels with skill levels. How can a player be a better kicker of the ball if he is not practicing it. It is unlikly we will ever see really great free takers like Maurice Fitz, Mickey Sheehy, Jimmey keavney, Tony Mctague etc. The ability to kick frees from anywhere within 50 yards is gone at present

Ceist_Beag · 03-07-2015 10:27AM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The ability to kick frees from anywhere within 50 yards is gone at present

Ehhh Michael Murphy aside of course!

bucketybuck · 03-07-2015 10:28AM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Alot of poster are mixing fitness levels with skill levels. How can a player be a better kicker of the ball if he is not practicing it. It is unlikly we will ever see really great free takers like Maurice Fitz, Mickey Sheehy, Jimmey keavney, Tony Mctague etc. The ability to kick frees from anywhere within 50 yards is gone at present

And how many freekicks has Dean Rock missed this year? Or Murphy? Sheehan can't hit long range frees now? News to me, all those youtube videos about his monster free kicks must be fake.

Is Cluxton nailing a long range free kick to win the all Ireland somehow less skillful than Fitzgerald nailing some long range free kick? Why is that exactly?

There are loads of fantastic free kick takers in the game today, any suggestion that the skill of free kicks has gone is just rubbish. Just the opposite in fact, with the increased pressure put on players in possession these days having a good free kick taker is more vital than ever.

keane2097 · 03-07-2015 11:32AM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Alot of poster are mixing fitness levels with skill levels. How can a player be a better kicker of the ball if he is not practicing it. It is unlikly we will ever see really great free takers like Maurice Fitz, Mickey Sheehy, Jimmey keavney, Tony Mctague etc. The ability to kick frees from anywhere within 50 yards is gone at present

Which counties' training sessions are you being let into?

Dirty Dingus McGee · 03-07-2015 12:33PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Alot of poster are mixing fitness levels with skill levels. How can a player be a better kicker of the ball if he is not practicing it. It is unlikly we will ever see really great free takers like Maurice Fitz, Mickey Sheehy, Jimmey keavney, Tony Mctague etc. The ability to kick frees from anywhere within 50 yards is gone at present

Did you watch the Meath v Westmeath game last weekend?

Paul Sharry kicked 2 45's by taking about 2 steps and calmy slotting the ball over the bar without any effort.It was terriffic placekicking.

danganabu · 03-07-2015 03:41PM

keane2097 wrote: »

Five or six years ago he probably wasn't in the top 20 footballers in the country, get a grip.

I never said he was, try reading a post before you attack it

ionadnapóca · 03-07-2015 04:10PM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Did you watch the Meath v Westmeath game last weekend?

Paul Sharry kicked 2 45's by taking about 2 steps and calmy slotting the ball over the bar without any effort.It was terriffic placekicking.

G'wan West Meath:pac:

keane2097 · 03-07-2015 04:15PM

danganabu wrote: »

I never said he was, try reading a post before you attack it

danganabu wrote: »

he is definitely one of the best players in teh country for the last 5-6 years.

Typically when you say something has happened "for" time X, it means it has been the case throughout that period.

If your mother asks you how long the immersion has been turned on and you say "the immersion is definitely on for the last 5-6 hours" you will get a very different reaction from saying "the immersion has definitely been on for a small portion the last 5-6 hours"!

K-9 · 03-07-2015 05:13PM

Now that's an insult, covers everything really.

danganabu · 03-07-2015 05:30PM

keane2097 wrote: »

Typically when you say something has happened "for" time X, it means it has been the case throughout that period.

If your mother asks you how long the immersion has been turned on and you say "the immersion is definitely on for the last 5-6 hours" you will get a very different reaction from saying "the immersion has definitely been on for a small portion the last 5-6 hours"!

Ok point taken, clearly what I meant was ''over the last 5-6 years''

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 03-07-2015 05:39PM

I hope the Cork fans wave their increasingly controversial racist flags this weekend.

The 2015 All Ireland Senior Football Championship

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