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A chance to scrap the Angelus - Nutella, Croissants and Pineapples.

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    #512
    tirchonaill86
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭tirchonaill86


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    I can't invade the place I've lived in all my life.

    Good man. Well done.


    So don't post crap about 'stench of evil' then :rolleyes:

    I will post whatever the fcuk i like when i am insulted and my faith is attacked.


    That was the approach in Germany 80 years ago, until they decided to move things up a few notches, but it is very illustrative of your thinking.

    This is completely different to nazi Germany you fool. Nobody is looking to expand here. We are defending what our ancestors fought for. I personally am proud of my bloodline who played a very active part in that struggle. I will not let some idiots come along with their rebellious natures take it away.


    Except they do, all the time, in our constitution, laws, education and health systems, and yes at our national broadcaster too.

    Why are you still here?


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    #513
    tirchonaill86
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭tirchonaill86


    'Dear God who made me and everything, please save me from the cancer you made, the pain you made, the death you made...'

    Yeah that's logical.

    Who created logic? Who created time? Who created space? Explain these concepts please.


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    #514
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,356 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    Why are you still here?

    What do you mean?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Options
    #515
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,356 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    'Dear God who made me and everything, please save me from the cancer you made, the pain you made, the death you made...'

    Yeah that's logical.

    Who created logic? Who created time? Who created space? Explain these concepts please.

    If god created these things, what created god?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #516
    tirchonaill86
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭tirchonaill86


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    If god created these things, what created god?

    You my friend are a fool! Goodnight.


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    #517
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,356 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    I will post whatever the fcuk i like when i am insulted and my faith is attacked.
    This is completely different to nazi Germany you fool. Nobody is looking to expand here. We are defending what our ancestors fought for. I personally am proud of my bloodline who played a very active part in that struggle. I will not let some idiots come along with their rebellious natures take it away.


    Nice way of hiding offensive quotes where they can't be instantly seen.

    Reported for violation of charter.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #518
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,356 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    You my friend are a fool! Goodnight.

    So you can't answer?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #519
    tirchonaill86
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭tirchonaill86


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    So you can't answer?

    Sometimes the best medicine for a fool is silence. Goodnight. Report away! I don't see any crime in highlighting foolish comments like comparing Ireland to Nazi Germany. You also mocked sick children and the terminally ill who find comfort in asking their higher power to ease their pain? You are worse than a fool. A fool is a compliment to you.


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    #520
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,356 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    Sometimes the best medicine for a fool is silence. Goodnight. Report away! I don't see any crime in highlighting foolish comments like comparing Ireland to Nazi Germany. You also mocked sick children and the terminally ill who find comfort in asking their higher power to ease their pain? You are worse than a fool. A fool is a compliment to you.

    I didn't mock actually, I questioned the logic of appealing to an all-powerful god who puts often entirely undeserving people into that mess, but I didn't mock the people who do appeal to god. I feel sorry that they worship a false god in the same way as you might feel sorry about the worshippers of the thousands of other false gods.

    But it's more than a bit hypocritical to complain about beliefs being supposedly mocked and then to respond to any questioning of your view with multiple instances of 'fool'. You have a right to respect and civility to the extent to which you show respect and civility to others :)

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #521
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    You my friend are a fool! Goodnight.

    MOD

    Dost thou know the difference between a bitter
    fool and a sweet fool?

    If so could you please clarify in what context you were using the word "fool"?

    Personal attacks aren't really welcome. Shakespearian compliment references most certainly are. If it's the former however hold thy tongue ( or in this case thy key strokes.)


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    #522
    Absolam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    oldrnwisr wrote: »
    I'm going to concentrate on this point because a) it speaks to the core of the point under discussion and b) no disrespect to your posting style but I have no intention of following you on a journey of dissection down the rabbit hole. This is, as I opened by saying, a minor point.<...>
    Now, as Tom points out in the video, there must be at some point a consideration with regard to getting your message across. This is the problem we have here.
    Which speaks to how we might consider an evolving linguistic definition of the word, but doesn't really say anything with regards to it's religious definition. You're right, overall what a Catholic is is probably a minor point in the context, but it has been used to attempt to establish a basis for repudiating the notion that Catholics are a sufficiently significant proportion of the population to warrant relevant cultural programming on RTE, which is why it's being debated.
    oldrnwisr wrote: »
    Now, when you are having a conversation with someone and you point out that you're a catholic (or Catholic if your prefer) then the other person is going to make some assumptions based on your use of the word catholic. In general the assumption that is associated with the term catholic is that the person is a faithful catholic, i.e. they believe in the teachings of the church. If you mean something different, for example, that you were simply baptised a catholic, then you need to qualify your use of the word catholic so that there is no confusion.
    That's where I have to disagree again; neither the Catholic nor the Catholic Church has any need to proselytise their understanding of the term Catholic. They understand it, and it's significance is really only relevant to them, unless they want to convince someone to become Catholic, in which case they have an obligation to explain what they mean by it. Whether or not someone is confused about what a Catholic, or the Catholic Church, means by Catholic makes no difference whatsoever to whether the Catholic is Catholic. A common understanding of what it means to be Catholic does not define their Catholicism, baptism defines their Catholicism.
    oldrnwisr wrote: »
    You see, earlier in this thread than Nick's comment about catholics being honest with themselves, there was an exchange between Huntergonzo and Peregrinus about the definition of catholic which kicked off when Hunter responded to this comment of yours:
    "And the 84% who identify as Roman Catholic of course. Which I think counts as a religious majority, unless there is a truly astonishing number of paleolithic era catlick Mammys desperately hiding the census forms from their enormous broods of apostate children still living at home."which was a response to this from Brian Shanahan:"so religious propoganda is better than commercial propoganda?And on a state broadcaster too, which is supposed to cater to all Irish, the non-religious majority as well as the tiny minority of paleolithic era catlicks."
    Now Brian makes a valid point. A state broadcaster ought not to be wasting a significant (€4m per year for RTE one alone) amount of taxpayer money on a religious call to prayer. Firstly, because this constitutes an endowment under Article 44.2.2 of the constitution and also because the actual rate of mass-going catholics (i.e. the group for which this call to prayer is going to be meaningful and relevant) is approximately 30% of the population.
    So when you responded with your 84% comment, you make it seem as if somehow the Angelus should be relevant because it's important to 84% of the population which is clearly ludicrous.
    Clearly ludicrous how exactly? Part of RTEs mandate is to reflect the social and cultural values of Irish society, and whether you think 84% of the population are Catholic, or 30% of the population are Catholic, being Catholic forms part of the social and cultural values of a large portion of our society, so RTEs programming is required to reflect that. I can't say whether that 84% want to hear the Angelus every day (though I can say that Brians assertion of a non religious majority is patently incorrect); but RTE have said their research shows that a clear majority of Irish viewers still favours keeping the "Angelus" broadcasts, so I'm willing to allow that there may be a correlation. If the broadcast reflects the social and cutural values of a portion of society (and it seems to me it does), then it's not a waste of money.
    As to whether it constitutes an endowment under Article 44.2.2 of the constitution, I don't see a case for it. The provision doesn't prohibit the State from paying religious organisations for services rendered, nor does it prohibit the State from allowing religious matters to be broadcast. I very much doubt that if there were any realistic prospect of convincing the SC that allowing religious broadcasts constituted endowment (even allowing that the SC might take a descriptivist position on the term, the Irish text is Ráthaíonn an Stát gan aon chóras creidimh a mhaoiniu; I suspect the SC would lean towards the 'financing' or 'funding' translation of mhaoiniu when considering what endowment should be taken to mean) someone wouldn't have made the attempt by now.
    oldrnwisr wrote: »
    Now, getting back to the linguistic argument. If you say that you're a catholic, but you don't believe in God or adhere to the teachings of the church, then describing yourself as catholic, however much it might mean to you, is meaningless in a conversation because it only confuses matters and tells the person you're talking to nothing about your actual beliefs.
    Well, per your quote from me, I don't think it is a linguistic argument. Whether a person in conversation finds another person's self description as Catholic to be meaningless because it doesn't conform to their concept of catholicism doesn't alter the fact that the person is a Catholic, by virtue of having been baptised in the Catholic Church.
    If we persuade 84% of the world tomorrow that being Catholic requires the eating of babies, it won't mean that those Catholics who don't eat babies are no longer Catholics, it will mean that the commonly accepted description of Catholic (as someone who eats babies) is incorrect. In such an instance, a descriptivist approach to the semantic term results in an error, whereas a prescriptive approach reveals the error.


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    #523
    obplayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭obplayer


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    I rest my case. I have said all i need to say on this subject. You will all feel very small when you kneel before your maker one day. I can feel the heat coming off the lot of ye....the stench of evil. That dead man made of wood....you will beg him one day for his mercy. I really don't want to bow to your ignorance as i would be letting myself down. I know there is a human being behind every one of us...and maybe you experienced some trauma in your lives or it wasn't your fault that you were blocked from gods love and i mean these words in a nice sincere way. God bless. I will pray for your return.

    LOL:pac::pac::pac:


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    #524
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    [...] you are an absolute dummy [...]
    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    You my friend are a fool!
    tirchonaill86 has been carded for behaving without the requisite degree of forum decorum.


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    #525
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,356 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    obplayer wrote: »
    LOL:pac::pac::pac:

    Here's the original. He lasted a minute before his head got scorched :p
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en1uwIzI3SE


    Parts of your video are reminiscent of 'Daisy' - the best (or worst?) political campaign ad ever.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDTBnsqxZ3k

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #526
    tirchonaill86
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭tirchonaill86


    robindch wrote: »
    tirchonaill86 has been carded for behaving without the requisite degree of forum decorum.

    What does carded mean boss?? I hope you look into the person i just reported. I was not going to report them but due to her reference, which i found highly offensive and inflammatory, i have lost my cool under attack form all sides. Atheists proving they are dangerous in packs like wolves coming down the mountain. Surely a person who makes silly comments like such is a fool? Its not offensive, merely logical surely? Correct me if you feel I'm wrong in saying this? Bless.


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    #527
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    What does carded mean boss?? I hope you look into the person i just reported. I was not going to report them but due to her reference, which i found highly offensive and inflammatory, i have lost my cool under attack form all sides. Atheists proving they are dangerous in packs like wolves coming down the mountain. Surely a person who makes silly comments like such is a fool? Its not offensive, merely logical surely? Correct me if you feel I'm wrong in saying this? Bless.

    Everyone makes silly comments on something. Doesn't make them fools. Certainly doesn't give a carte blanche for personal attacks either.

    Carded means it goes on your end of session boards report card. Get enough cards and you might find site access become more and more limited.

    Atheists aren't dangerous in packs like wolves. Rather, they are like cute innocent puppies who make you lower your guard before they nibble away your socks and slippers tearing away your traditional boundaries in the world. Agnostics though are much much worse. They scratch everything with the pieces of a barbed wire stuck on them from all that fence sitting! Agnostic atheists are the worst! They mod fora and censor anything they wish. I'm actually getting sick of the word "of".


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    #528
    tirchonaill86
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭tirchonaill86


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Everyone makes silly comments on something. Doesn't make them fools. Certainly doesn't give a carte blanche for personal attacks either.

    Carded means it goes on your end of session boards report card. Get enough cards and you might find site access become more and more limited.

    Atheists aren't dangerous in packs like wolves. Rather, they are like cute innocent puppies who make you lower your guard before they nibble away your socks and slippers tearing away your traditional boundaries in the world. Agnostics though are much much worse. They scratch everything with the pieces of a barbed wire stuck on them from all that fence sitting! Agnostic atheists are the worst! They mod fora and censor anything they wish. I'm actually getting sick of the word "of".

    Reported for thinly veiled threat to nibble away my socks and slippers


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    #529
    obplayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭obplayer


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    What does carded mean boss?? I hope you look into the person i just reported. I was not going to report them but due to her reference, which i found highly offensive and inflammatory, i have lost my cool under attack form all sides. Atheists proving they are dangerous in packs like wolves coming down the mountain. Surely a person who makes silly comments like such is a fool? Its not offensive, merely logical surely? Correct me if you feel I'm wrong in saying this? Bless.

    Surely a person who believes that an instruction manual for bronze age goat herders is suitable for modern people to base their life on is a fool?

    I am fascinated to see how much of an idiot you are determined to make yourself look.


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    #530
    tirchonaill86
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭tirchonaill86


    obplayer wrote: »
    Surely a person who believes that an instruction manual for bronze age goat herders is suitable for modern people to base their life on is a fool?

    I am fascinated to see how much of an idiot you are determined to make yourself look.

    Haha heres to the angelus. Long may it continue in this beautiful Christian country of ours. I would rather be a fool on earth than a fool on judgement day. Haha lol You atheists make me laugh. You are all a bunch of doubting tommys yeah. Good luck trying to explain yourselves to the man above. Yee boys and girls won't have much to say then. Yee won't be so smug then alright. lol


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    #531
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Nor forgetting of course that the Angelus was started as a call to prayer for the good Roman Catholic people of Ireland, which was fine if you belonged to that branch of Christianity . . .

    It's 2015 now and the rest of us are still here, + the new influx of other faiths (and no faith).


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    #532
    tirchonaill86
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭tirchonaill86


    I don't know if i should respond to a person who calls themselves Lord.


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    #533
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    Thats an extremely disrespectful thing to say about a man who died for our eternal salvation. That really goes beyond the realms of a crude joke into the more sinister world of mockery. I believe this was a man who suffered so that we could one day reach heaven. A dead man made of wood is a really nice mockery of my beliefs--- thank you for your hurtful comments. You remind me of the men who mocked him while he was on the cross. A child who has not been educated on this great man would obviously wonder why there is a dead man made of wood hanging on the wall, as you put out. But the cross is much more than that. It is a symbol of my faith. A symbol of victory over the dark powers of this world...the ones we sadly see grow in strength every day on our news. I hate to think what your little child will grow up to be if his mother is making a blatant attempt at complete mockery of the figurehead of another persons faith. I mean we can all take a joke...i certainly can but mockery is quite a different thing indeed

    I find it extremely hurtful that you don't honor the sun God ra, what type of person doesn't honor ra?....... Sickening.


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    #534
    tirchonaill86
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭tirchonaill86


    Sure we know thats a load of crap now come on lad ....sungod haha lol you serious? You are off your head my friend. Lay off the weed brother!


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    #535
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    Sure we know thats a load of crap now come on lad ....sungod haha lol you serious? You are off your head my friend. Lay off the weed brother!

    Yeah, it's almost as silly as a god who sends his immortal self to be killed for people who didn't exist at the time and who's sins didn't exist.

    And get this, the whole story spawned all sorts of competing beliefs, has caused the deaths of untold millions in the gods name and the organisations that claimed to represent this all loving God have then used their power to further their hatred of women, gay people and anyone that doesn't conform to their beliefs...hell they've burned countless people for not agreeing with them.

    And that funniest part out of the whole belief system that spawned out of some stone age fairytale..... They then used theur power to Knowingly do nothing when it came to their own holy people raping children. But sure why would they are? They were too busying lobbying governments so single mothers would get no support so they the women could come into their care instead and they could then sell off the women's baby's.

    Yep, it's ra that's a load of crap in all this...


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    #536
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Mod:

    Right, gentlefolks, please step away from your keyboards for a few minutes.

    I'm sure it's another lovely morning in Dublin so pop outside and have a cappuccino + croissant and come back and enjoy the debate.


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    #537
    SmilingLurker
    Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭SmilingLurker


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    ?? I hope you look into the person i just reported. I was not going to report them but due to her reference, which i found highly offensive and inflammatory, i have lost my cool under attack form all sides. Atheists proving they are dangerous in packs like wolves coming down the mountain. Surely a person who makes silly comments like such is a fool? Its not offensive, merely logical surely? Correct me if you feel I'm wrong in saying this? Bless.

    Originally the symbol used was a fish. Not a man being tortured to death. That you believe it is a symbol of importance does not mean others do.

    If you believe she has caused offense, alas there is a blasphemy law. You will find short shrift however as you are posting in a forum where your views are the minority, and her description is physically accurate.

    I would suggest logical arguments and thicker skin.


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    #538
    SmilingLurker
    Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭SmilingLurker


    Back on topic my children associate with it being almost bath time. They are generally disappointed as we start cleaning up the toys. They would be delighted to hear if it was discontinued.

    I find it a daily unnecessary irritation. I usually pause for reflection going to work, I don't need a call to prayer.


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    #539
    Absolam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    SmilingLurker wrote: »
    Back on topic my children associate with it being almost bath time. They are generally disappointed as we start cleaning up the toys. They would be delighted to hear if it was discontinued.
    I find it a daily unnecessary irritation. I usually pause for reflection going to work, I don't need a call to prayer.
    Now that you mention it... it always (well, on the rare occasions I hear it) reminds me of teatime, when my dad was about to demonstrate his miraculous ability to watch the news, read the paper, and snore simultaneously. I can't remember when teatime became dinner time, and dinner got replaced by lunch, but the sound of the Angelus still makes me think of eating fried eggs, baked beans and buttered batch bread.


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    #540
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    I don't know if i should respond to a person who calls themselves Lord.

    Bless you ;)


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    #541
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    Absolam wrote: »
    Does the RCC do that?

    You're the one who said that the RCC allows people to label themselves regardless of actual belief.
    Absolam wrote: »
    Well, to be more accurate, if you realised that the label matched I wouldn't be here arguing :)

    Except the label doesn't match, hence you have been arguing the label can be used based on arbitrary self-identification rather than the actual contents.
    Absolam wrote: »
    Nope, it just doesn't match the contents that you think it should. If they're baptised and say they're Catholic, that's all the content that's required.

    Except we have already seen, thanks to the various creeds and thanks to oldrnwisr post that without also believing what the church dictates, the label of catholic is meaningless and can't apply.
    Absolam wrote: »
    I don't know what's being stalled; we seem to be motoring along. As for derailing, well, it was you who introduced the question of what the Church definition of Catholic is. If the discussion proceeded on new lines as a result, that's really more your fault than mine.
    You've no reason really to care what I think, just as Catholics and the Catholic Church have no reason to care what you think.

    Nope, just to point out one part of Catholic doctrine in Oldrnwisrs post that prohibits any person baptised in the Catholic Church from being Catholic.
    I understand you think that asking you to prove what you say is true is stalling the thread, but if there's a big chunk that's full of them it ought not to take long. Don't forget to include the bit where it says they're prohibited from being Catholics though.

    The stalling is in crap like this. It's clear what I'm refering to in oldrnwsrs post, but here you trying to stall the thread by dragging us back to semantattack* a post you already tried to semantattack with anothe poster.

    *a word I just made up to describe your posting style, where you stall discussion by inneccessantly and semantically over analysing everything, strawman, ask redundant questions, just everything and anything to avoid getting to the point.


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