The 2015 All Ireland Senior Football Championship

bucketybuck wrote: »

There was a 10/15 minute period over half time where Dublin, and in particular the half back line, simply switched off and stopped putting any pressure on the ball. One incident in particular stands out, that of McCarthy simply standing and watching as the ball went around him in almost a full square, he didn't even try to lay a hand on it.

Donegal weren't asking any questions at that stage so it wasn't a case of Dublin being unable to respond. It was only later when Donegal realised what was happening that they then really started to apply the pressure. Dublin couldn't get the pace back when that happened, but that wouldn't have happened at all had Dublin not completely stopped playing.

People really do forget just how dominant Dublin were in that first half, they completely destroyed the vaunted Donegal blanket and I bet Jim McGuinness knew it.

I think you'll find Dublin kicked a number of great scores at the start from distance which you can only keep up for so long. Donegal got the breaks yes but Dublin panicked once Donegal got the goal and were clueless in the second half. dublin can destroy anyone kerry included and may well roll over everyone this year but there is nearly always one game where questions are asked

munsterlegend wrote:

I think you'll find Dublin kicked a number of great scores at the start from distance which you can only keep up for so long.

Not having a go, but this statement seems to be doing the rounds now. Running and chasing back is something you can only do to a level for so long. But kicking decent points is something good teams can maintain. The idea that teams get tired kicking the ball or what ever the rubbish is that brolly in particular has introduced is BS in my option. Dublin and donegal played out a very low scoring game in 2011. Murphy is an expert at long range scores and he'll score them at any stage. The idea that brolly is trying to paint that donegal had it 100% in the bag from the get go is rubbish. They fully deserved the win last year but they did not say that from the start that "let the Dubs use up their long range scores early on" there was a switch off from the Dubs, Donegal made some switches got momentum the better team won.

But calling everything that happened in that game as part of a 100% master plan as Brolly does is off the mark. Just like he was about Westmeath yesterday. Also both the lads missed the changes at corner back yesterday and how the backs faced Bray and McMahon during certain stages to block their view of the play so threy couldn't anticipated and make as many of the runs that they made in the first half. The more mobile guys in different positions, things that didn't happen in the first half . Or that meath tired.
Brolly is not capable of making some of the statements he makes. He would need super powers. He makes indepth statements months and years after games have been played painting a deeply tactical and controlled picture of how team set up. Some of it is complete rubbish. He'd have 5 all Irelands in a row as a manager if he actually did correctly call these situations. He's as guiltu at talking up teams as he is at breaking them into nothing.

Many teams win games by making tactical changes, it often happens that other other team can take the foot off the pedal as meath did a bit yesterday.

That's football it goes with you and against you. That's what happened with donegal and Dublin last year. Things developed and played out on the pitch that were part of no plan, and the best team won.
I seriously doubt at any stage that donegal planned to sit out Dublins long point kicking phase because no team can keep that up.
Donegal changed things up. And a management that sent a team out a year before against Mayo for an obliteration is not capable of such planning. Management had a huge impact on the decision last year, much of it by the Dublin manager, he's learning fair play to him. McGuinness learned in 2011, fair play to him.
Hats off to donegal but you have to be realistic at the same time. They are a very good team with great supporters but they are vulnerable to things not going their way too. Otherwise they would have won more. That is the only real type off hindsight statement you can make. Not let things pan our and then fit it into a plan.


Yesterday Kildare were terrible. Brolly and Co were actually amazed and taken back by how Dublin played. I've never seen him that "impressed" that will all go out the window if Dublin fall short. Dunlin were good yesterday, but Kildare were no test. As a result you can only say so much about Dublin. The lads went top far last night

The fact if the matter is that Kildare were terribly. They have better players that either can't or won't play for their manager. Something is badly wrong their. They have spent a lot at underage level,yet the senior team is in free fall.

Their halftime plan was up come out and slow things down get someone sent off, get the game finished and go home. There is a lot more football in Kildare than we saw yesterday. People in Kildare know it, there was no talk about that yesterday either. I thought the after match analysis yesterday was poor for both games.

Stoner wrote: »

Not having a go, but this statement seems to be doing the rounds now. Running and chasing back is something you can only do to a level for so long. But kicking decent points is something good teams can maintain. The idea that teams get tired kicking the ball or what ever the rubbish is that brolly in particular has introduced is BS in my option. Dublin and donegal played out a very low scoring game in 2011. Murphy is an expert at long range scores and he'll score them at any stage. The idea that brolly is trying to paint that donegal had it 100% in the bag from the get go is rubbish. They fully deserved the win last year but they did not say that from the start that "let the Dubs use up their long range scores early on" there was a switch off from the Dubs, Donegal made some switches got momentum the better team won.

But calling everything that happened in that game as part of a 100% master plan as Brolly does is off the mark. Just like he was about Westmeath yesterday. Also both the lads missed the changes at corner back yesterday and how the backs faced Bray and McMahon during certain stages to block their view of the play so threy couldn't anticipated and make as many of the runs that they made in the first half. The more mobile guys in different positions, things that didn't happen in the first half . Or that meath tired.
Brolly is not capable of making some of the statements he makes. He would need super powers. He makes indepth statements months and years after games have been played painting a deeply tactical and controlled picture of how team set up. Some of it is complete rubbish. He'd have 5 all Irelands in a row as a manager if he actually did correctly call these situations. He's as guiltu at talking up teams as he is at breaking them into nothing.

Many teams win games by making tactical changes, it often happens that other other team can take the foot off the pedal as meath did a bit yesterday.

That's football it goes with you and against you. That's what happened with donegal and Dublin last year. Things developed and played out on the pitch that were part of no plan, and the best team won.
I seriously doubt at any stage that donegal planned to sit out Dublins long point kicking phase because no team can keep that up.
Donegal changed things up. And a management that sent a team out a year before against Mayo for an obliteration is not capable of such planning. Management had a huge impact on the decision last year, much of it by the Dublin manager, he's learning fair play to him. McGuinness learned in 2011, fair play to him.
Hats off to donegal but you have to be realistic at the same time. They are a very good team with great supporters but they are vulnerable to things not going their way too. Otherwise they would have won more. That is the only real type off hindsight statement you can make. Not let things pan our and then fit it into a plan.


Yesterday Kildare were terrible. Brolly and Co were actually amazed and taken back by how Dublin played. I've never seen him that "impressed" that will all go out the window if Dublin fall short. Dunlin were good yesterday, but Kildare were no test. As a result you can only say so much about Dublin. The lads went top far last night

The fact if the matter is that Kildare were terribly. They have better players that either can't or won't play for their manager. Something is badly wrong their. They have spent a lot at underage level,yet the senior team is in free fall.

Their halftime plan was up come out and slow things down get someone sent off, get the game finished and go home. There is a lot more football in Kildare than we saw yesterday. People in Kildare know it, there was no talk about that yesterday either. I thought the after match analysis yesterday was poor for both games.

Donegal's plan surely was not to let Dublin in closer to goal and score the killer goals which they thrive on? any team will try and force a team to kick from distance. dublin kicked some awful wides in the second half from what i recall and could have brought the game back with points but started going for goals.

Stoner wrote: »

The idea that brolly is trying to paint that donegal had it 100% in the bag from the get go is rubbish. They fully deserved the win last year but they did not say that from the start that "let the Dubs use up their long range scores early on" there was a switch off from the Dubs, Donegal made some switches got momentum the better team won.

But calling everything that happened in that game as part of a 100% master plan as Brolly does is off the mark.

This is the point I was trying to make.

Did Donegal deserve to win last year? Of course they did, they realised what was happening and had the players to take advantage of the situation. But it was no tactical masterplan, and had Dublin not inexplicably stopped pressing the ball Donegal would not have had the chance to grab that advantage.

If that game was a boxing match, it would have been one boxer pounding the crap out of the other for five rounds, but then in round 6 he stops boxing and starts leaning against the ropes. The other boxer is in bits, doesn't know why the first boxer has stopped hitting him, but doesn't look a gift horse in the mouth and starts punching back, eventually winning the fight.

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I'd agree Wexford would have a chance in a close game

Derry were poor to be honest v Donegal in Donegal clearly were just going through the motions and wanted to win with out a fuss as monaghan are waiting and armagh and Tyrone they had peaked for they couldn't afford to be so good again in the minefield of ulster

The poor passing with a kick straight out over the side line the poor wides and when they were two up with ten to go they never wanted or showed a desire to drive on like Dublin or kerry and win hugely and it's under standsble as unlike kerry and Dublin that have not lot huge games Donegal had a tough championship


Donegal are on the go for five years and I'm surprised their looking fresh but that is down to Gallagher who is doing good
Donegal could have won this game by ten points they wanted to but just wanted to keep ball and close it out so derry were saved a huge beating


Cork only hope Sunday is kerry who I suspect will do the same win with out going through the full peak and won't want to show their full hand
Derry are poorer than Saturday night showed

An interesting point on the Munster Final is that the losers will play the Leinster champions if they win their last-12 tie. One might see Kerry possibly beating Dublin in September, but not with off-peak fitness, so for once the provincial title effectively becomes an eliminator.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its not nonsense, whats nonsense is the revisionism surrounding that game.

Some people now like to pretend Donegal had a genius masterplan that day, that they knew how to handle the dubs and that the gameplan worked perfectly.

And its all rubbish. Dublin had Donegal absolutely beaten out the gate, they were spanking them all around the field and had they taken even just a few more of their chances the game would have been over long before half time. Then for some reason Dublin stopped pressing in their defence and over the next 15 minutes Donegal realised they had far too much time and space and finally started going for crucial scores.

Masterplan my hole, Dublin could and should have put a cricket score on Donegal just the same as Mayo had done previously, instead they switched off and handed Donegal the win. I have no doubt whatsoever that McGuiness and the Donegal team couldn't believe their luck that day, because if Dublin hadn't stopped playing they would have been on the end of a serious hiding.

Wow-somebody sounds bitter about Donegal.

Sure Dublin had 2 goal chances early on but they also kicked 3 or 4 spectacular long range points which on another day might go wide so 9 points to 4 was a reasonably fair reflection of play after 20 minutes-when the bookies had the spread at 15 points.

Also if you think getting a couple of breaks before beating a team who were 6-1 on by six points mean you didnt have a tactical plan which worked then youre even more clueless than your post suggests.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

They had a few years there that they were terrible in the qualifiers but in the last 2 years they have got to a QF and Rnd 4.

I think that they realize that wile Mayo are so dominant in Connacht they need to use the qualifiers for their own improvement

They only had to beat Tipp and Sligo to get to quarters last year.
In fairness they beat Armagh 2 years ago but it really was the battle of 2 teams at their lowest ebb for about 50 years!

harpsman wrote: »

Wow-somebody sounds bitter about Donegal.

Sure Dublin had 2 goal chances early on but they also kicked 3 or 4 spectacular long range points which on another day might go wide so 9 points to 4 was a reasonably fair reflection of play after 20 minutes-when the bookies had the spread at 15 points.

Also if you think getting a couple of breaks before beating a team who were 6-1 on by six points mean you didnt have a tactical plan which worked then youre even more clueless than your post suggests.

Sometimes all you can say is :rolleyes:

bucketybuck wrote: »

Another poster talked about Donegal denying Dublin goal chances but again, they didn't, Dublin were waltzing through them at times. That they wasted those chances wasn't due to a plan, just due to the luck that often comes in games.

Ah here, who's rewriting history now? Dublin wasted one, just one, good goal chance in the first half. Waltzing through, I don't think so! Absolutely, they kicked some magnificent points from distance but they certainly were not waltzing through and how about you give Donegal some credit for the "inexplicable" reason Dublin stopped pressing - maybe there was something in what Donegal did that caused that!

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

maybe there was something in what Donegal did that caused that!

Was it the mystical Donegal gameplan that stopped McCarthy and others pressing the ball around the half back line?

Its vague claims like that from Brolly that started this discussion and I'll say it again, Donegal did not manoeuvre themselves into a position where they could win, they just found themselves there and took full advantage. Nothing wrong with that as long as they realise that it wasn't because of any gameplan, it was because Dublin gave it to them.

Stoner wrote: »

Not having a go, but this statement seems to be doing the rounds now. Running and chasing back is something you can only do to a level for so long. But kicking decent points is something good teams can maintain. The idea that teams get tired kicking the ball or what ever the rubbish is that brolly in particular has introduced is BS in my option. Dublin and donegal played out a very low scoring game in 2011. Murphy is an expert at long range scores and he'll score them at any stage. The idea that brolly is trying to paint that donegal had it 100% in the bag from the get go is rubbish. They fully deserved the win last year but they did not say that from the start that "let the Dubs use up their long range scores early on" there was a switch off from the Dubs, Donegal made some switches got momentum the better team won.

But calling everything that happened in that game as part of a 100% master plan as Brolly does is off the mark. Just like he was about Westmeath yesterday. Also both the lads missed the changes at corner back yesterday and how the backs faced Bray and McMahon during certain stages to block their view of the play so threy couldn't anticipated and make as many of the runs that they made in the first half. The more mobile guys in different positions, things that didn't happen in the first half . Or that meath tired.
Brolly is not capable of making some of the statements he makes. He would need super powers. He makes indepth statements months and years after games have been played painting a deeply tactical and controlled picture of how team set up. Some of it is complete rubbish. He'd have 5 all Irelands in a row as a manager if he actually did correctly call these situations. He's as guiltu at talking up teams as he is at breaking them into nothing.

Many teams win games by making tactical changes, it often happens that other other team can take the foot off the pedal as meath did a bit yesterday.

That's football it goes with you and against you. That's what happened with donegal and Dublin last year. Things developed and played out on the pitch that were part of no plan, and the best team won.
I seriously doubt at any stage that donegal planned to sit out Dublins long point kicking phase because no team can keep that up.
Donegal changed things up. And a management that sent a team out a year before against Mayo for an obliteration is not capable of such planning. Management had a huge impact on the decision last year, much of it by the Dublin manager, he's learning fair play to him. McGuinness learned in 2011, fair play to him.
Hats off to donegal but you have to be realistic at the same time. They are a very good team with great supporters but they are vulnerable to things not going their way too. Otherwise they would have won more. That is the only real type off hindsight statement you can make. Not let things pan our and then fit it into a plan.


Yesterday Kildare were terrible. Brolly and Co were actually amazed and taken back by how Dublin played. I've never seen him that "impressed" that will all go out the window if Dublin fall short. Dunlin were good yesterday, but Kildare were no test. As a result you can only say so much about Dublin. The lads went top far last night

The fact if the matter is that Kildare were terribly. They have better players that either can't or won't play for their manager. Something is badly wrong their. They have spent a lot at underage level,yet the senior team is in free fall.

Their halftime plan was up come out and slow things down get someone sent off, get the game finished and go home. There is a lot more football in Kildare than we saw yesterday. People in Kildare know it, there was no talk about that yesterday either. I thought the after match analysis yesterday was poor for both games.

By and large you re fairly correct there. Particularly about Brolly ****in on about how Donegal plan for everything.
However the point about the long range kicking I think he was making is that shots from that distance are a bit of a lottery and also Dublin did try a few later on in the first half which went badly wrong-giving the Donegal team and supporters a huge lift-one Paul Flynn attempt didnt even reach the 13m line so you cant say good players will kick long range points all day- if they could then why did Dublin stop doing it?

The main reason Dublin lost last year is that they completely dropped their intensity after 20 minutes and let Donegal walk in a few handy scores to get them back in the game followed by defending for the 2nd and 3rd goals that schoolboys would be embarrassed by. But it was still a masterclass by McGuinness and Donegal to take advantage.

Plus the Mayo game in 13 is a bit of a red herring as Donegal were dead on their feet as can happen to teams the year after winning an all ireland when it doesnt happen very often unless your a county that get to play all your games at home.

The flip side of Dublins profligacy in front of goals was Donegals conversion rate that day. I recall a statto posting Donegals conversion in excess of 80% which was the highest ever return since they started all these stats. Most Dublin supporters are happy to box off that Donegal game for what it was - and this years campaign is looking to address those short comings

As a dub. I will admit Dublin were out thought on the side line last year v Donegal in AI. I was at the game. Dublin could not keep up the long range kicking and all out attacking. Mcgunness was very clever playing midfielders further forward as battering rams to hit ball to. The player who came on and changed the game was toye. When Dublin went behind they panicked b brogan was honest enough to admit it.

Jim Gavin was tactically stuborn . I will never understand how bastick stayed on the bench. A tailor made game for him. In saying all that though Dublin still could have won the game if the goal chances from connolly and b brogan went in.
People seem to forget that Donegal gathered momentum like Westmeath yesterday. While Dublin were rattled like Meath.
Anyone who says the sideline choices tactical choices do not contribute to such momentum is either blind or a lier.
Gavin learnt his lesson and has now tweaked his tactics as shown by the Kildare game yesterday. Defend at the right times then break but not too hung ho. Fewest goals conceced in div 1 and a league title victory again prove it.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Good job nobody is saying that then.

That is what seems to be implied that Donegal had no game plan , some are saying. it was obvious they did and it wore dublin down.Dublin's gameplan was long range points and it worked for about 20mins.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Was it the mystical Donegal gameplan that stopped McCarthy and others pressing the ball around the half back line?

Its vague claims like that from Brolly that started this discussion and I'll say it again, Donegal did not manoeuvre themselves into a position where they could win, they just found themselves there and took full advantage. Nothing wrong with that as long as they realise that it wasn't because of any gameplan, it was because Dublin gave it to them.

This is laughable.

If you're on the boil a bit having to respond to people here then I understand, but if you actually thought this was true then surely Jim Gavin would have been relieved of his duties shortly after?