The 2015 All Ireland Senior Football Championship

bruschi wrote: »

being slightly facetious and argumentative, but still.

did Dublin have the same massively inflated income from the GAA then? Did they also have more paid full time coaches than the whole province combined? Did they also play every championship game in Croke Park?

No one had a big inflated income back then apart from the revenue counties got from sponsors. I think per capata all counties have benefited from G.A.A. grants once they put in a decent proposal. There are a lot of coach's in Dublin annd I know my club have to raise money to subsidise our coach, I think around €17,000 towards salary.
Dublin played games outside Croke park, I was in Dr Cullen park, Wexford park, O'Connor park and O,Moore park watching Dublin play and to be honest they were health hazzards. I think Dublin would like to play in a decent ground down the country be it Portlaois or Tullamore. If Navan was done up and capacity was around 20,000 they could play Louth or Longford there

bruschi wrote: »

I get your point, and more arguing for the sake of it than anything, but still, times have moved on hugely since the 90's, and the level of professionalism and money has moved on far beyond that at a huge rate. To try say just because they were down then, so why complain now. The same advantages werent there back then.

Other counties made stupid decisions and thought they could buy success instead of investing in juvenile structures. It takes 15 to 20 years to see the real value of investment in coaching.

bruschi wrote: »

And seriously, the excuse that other places dont have the same competition as Dublin do? Are you honestly using that as an argument to defend the problems that Dublin have to overcome. Dublin have clubs with more members than some county memberships. Every county has their problems, whether social, economic or sports competition, but to try say that Dublin are at a disadvantage because of the competition in the county? Thats really clutching at straws. You mention Cuala, and in one argument people go on about how Cuala are utterly dominating the rugby scene, and have nearly ten times as many members as Blackrock rugby club. They field 95 teams through their age groups. Dont tell me they are struggling with numbers like other clubs in counties do.

We know every county has problems in all areas you mention, social, economic or sports competition but NONE have some of the problems on the scale that Dublin have in some areas.. I have seen what clubs face in some areas and I can tell you I would have walked away many years ago if I had to do the same. You are right though, some clubs in Dublin have massive membership, I heard one has over 7,000 members and the finance in these clubs is just dream land to most of us.

bruschi wrote: »

Dublin have massive advantages financially, numbers wise, and home playing field. Ultimately, the best team will win a championship regardless of having any perceived advantages, and Dublin arent always the best team. At the end of it all, you can only have 15 on the field, you dont play with money or fans or club members.

In spite of the above, I'm sick of reading the same arguments every single time Dublin play. They dont fix the games, the Leinster council do. They dont write the glowing articles about them, the journalists do.

Dublin have been given a load of money, but they didnt waste a penny of it. They put in structures, they employed very good people and they have made the most of the income in a vast number of ways. The clubs have also done similar, they got great revenue and a lot of it through initiatives and excellent fund raising and this has raised the profile and playing numbers of these clubs.

Credit to Dublin and what they have done. They have been given a massive leg up, but they took their opportunity to make the best of it, and have been successful in doing so. Its mainly jealousy, and I'll freely admit, I am hugely jealous of the set up, facilities, coaches, money etc dublin has. None of that brings success, and I am far more jealous of the success Dublin has had. More power to them, but I hope you wouldnt take offence if I said I hope it dries up again soon!

No offence taken at all. It is good for the games to see others get their day in the sun.

You make very valid points and I can understand where you are coming from. I used to mad jealous of Meath back in the 90's, still jealous about Kilkenny now.

A lot of preparation went into how Dublin could progress from the 80's and 90's when we did have massive numbers playing but very little in terms of structure.

Dublin were not given money, they were not given a leg up, they put proposals to central council and these thrown back in early 90s to be "redesigned" they eventually got it right. The structures in Dublin are fairly good BUT MAINTAINING it is a huge financial drain on clubs and Co Board. The marketing of the games has been massive in Dublin. Our club is better ran than some county boards from what I hear and we are not sitting at the top end of the tablle but we want to and lads like everywhere else make massive commitments but the commitment is within a structure we have ALL bought into and the same cant be said in some Leinster counties.
Without Dublin and the revenue they bring there would actually be less money to go around to others. This was the same back in the 70s when Dublin hit the road the benefits to places like Navan, Longford, Mullingar, Aughrim were fairly big and it is the same today for National league games as the crowds will follow

Deleted User wrote: »

I think your spot on. Yes the money thing is an advantage but even with money, you can just as easily be stupid with it.

While we would invest alot in football in Tipp we would be nowhere near Dublins finances and yet people seem to forget that we beat Dublin in the u21 this year, and the minor in 2011 and that was down to getting our own gameplan spot on. Kildare and Meath have bigger populations then ourselves and quite frankly if Kildare spent as much time in coaching the youth then trying to poach the likes of Seanie Johnston then they might actually be in a position to put it up to Dublin. Yes Dublin have vast income and yes i think to an extent the GAA should review a redistribution system to help the very small counties but other then that some of the counties need to stop feeling sorry for themselves and be more proactive

I can't speak for Meath but the Kildare minors beat Dublin for the third time since 2010 today. We're lightyears off them at senior level but there is good work being done at underage level.

Deleted User wrote: »

I cannot understand why Kildare were so determined for Johnston to play for them at the time tbh and i dont think Kildare were as good since but thats another issue. Yes your right underage success doesnt guarantee senior success but it gives a good basis going forward. Im glad that kildare are getting their house in order and i hope it will at least translate to relative competitiveness with the big teams, but i cannot fathom how in this moment in time that Kildare and Meath have let things go to this state when the situation looked on the up just a few years ago. They both have alot going for them as counties and should really be doing better against Dublin but today it was as if they hadnt took the time to study Dublin going into the game and watch for the obvious things like the short kick outs

Neither could a lot of people in Kildare and it coincided with the decline of that team. There were a lot of other factors at play but it definitely had a negative impact and probably ultimately cost McGeeney that job. It hasn't happened for Kildare under Ryan. He was unfortunate to lose some of the best underage players to other sports but his team has underperformed for the most part.

Kildare's population advantage is a bit overstated to be honest. A huge proportion of that population are recent blow ins with zero connection to the county. They don't tend to get involved in the community. Maybe that will change as their kids grow up and they develop their own sense of place and identity.

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Nonsense.

Its not nonsense, whats nonsense is the revisionism surrounding that game.

Some people now like to pretend Donegal had a genius masterplan that day, that they knew how to handle the dubs and that the gameplan worked perfectly.

And its all rubbish. Dublin had Donegal absolutely beaten out the gate, they were spanking them all around the field and had they taken even just a few more of their chances the game would have been over long before half time. Then for some reason Dublin stopped pressing in their defence and over the next 15 minutes Donegal realised they had far too much time and space and finally started going for crucial scores.

Masterplan my hole, Dublin could and should have put a cricket score on Donegal just the same as Mayo had done previously, instead they switched off and handed Donegal the win. I have no doubt whatsoever that McGuiness and the Donegal team couldn't believe their luck that day, because if Dublin hadn't stopped playing they would have been on the end of a serious hiding.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its not nonsense, whats nonsense is the revisionism surrounding that game.

Some people now like to pretend Donegal had a genius masterplan that day, that they knew how to handle the dubs and that the gameplan worked perfectly.

And its all rubbish. Dublin had Donegal absolutely beaten out the gate, they were spanking them all around the field and had they taken even just a few more of their chances the game would have been over long before half time. Then for some reason Dublin stopped pressing in their defence and over the next 15 minutes Donegal realised they had far too much time and space and finally started going for crucial scores.

Masterplan my hole, Dublin could and should have put a cricket score on Donegal just the same as Mayo had done previously, instead they switched off and handed Donegal the win. I have no doubt whatsoever that McGuiness and the Donegal team couldn't believe their luck that day, because if Dublin hadn't stopped playing they would have been on the end of a serious hiding.

I think it was a bit more than simply switching off. Dublin waltzed through leinster without any questions being asked and when donegal asked them they couldn't respond. It will be interesting what will happen when these questions are asked again. Mayo could have beaten Dublin two years ago so Dublin not that far ahead of everyone but certainly the favourites.

Jez I'd imagine Tyrone wouldn't be thinking that once Meath learn lessons from yesterday

Patww79 wrote: »

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Home advantage is a big plus here.

Would be no surprise to see all four home teams go through.

Galway against Armagh looks like it will be the most competitve but with both both those sides a lot will depend on what sort of form they in on the day.

munsterlegend wrote: »

I think it was a bit more than simply switching off. Dublin waltzed through leinster without any questions being asked and when donegal asked them they couldn't respond. It will be interesting what will happen when these questions are asked again. Mayo could have beaten Dublin two years ago so Dublin not that far ahead of everyone but certainly the favourites.

There was a 10/15 minute period over half time where Dublin, and in particular the half back line, simply switched off and stopped putting any pressure on the ball. One incident in particular stands out, that of McCarthy simply standing and watching as the ball went around him in almost a full square, he didn't even try to lay a hand on it.

Donegal weren't asking any questions at that stage so it wasn't a case of Dublin being unable to respond. It was only later when Donegal realised what was happening that they then really started to apply the pressure. Dublin couldn't get the pace back when that happened, but that wouldn't have happened at all had Dublin not completely stopped playing.

People really do forget just how dominant Dublin were in that first half, they completely destroyed the vaunted Donegal blanket and I bet Jim McGuinness knew it.

Patww79 wrote: »

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No you're right their record in the qualifiers is abysmal.

The thing is Armagh were woeful against Donegal and struggled hugely against Wicklow - Wicklow missed between 5 and 7 kickable frees according to reports and Armagh scored 2-3 to no score in the last 5 minutes to put a big gloss on the scoreline.

slogging...it wrote: »

I wouldn't call Derry's draw easy either

I'd agree Wexford would have a chance in a close game

Derry were poor to be honest v Donegal in Donegal clearly were just going through the motions and wanted to win with out a fuss as monaghan are waiting and armagh and Tyrone they had peaked for they couldn't afford to be so good again in the minefield of ulster

The poor passing with a kick straight out over the side line the poor wides and when they were two up with ten to go they never wanted or showed a desire to drive on like Dublin or kerry and win hugely and it's under standsble as unlike kerry and Dublin that have not lot huge games Donegal had a tough championship


Donegal are on the go for five years and I'm surprised their looking fresh but that is down to Gallagher who is doing good
Donegal could have won this game by ten points they wanted to but just wanted to keep ball and close it out so derry were saved a huge beating


Cork only hope Sunday is kerry who I suspect will do the same win with out going through the full peak and won't want to show their full hand
Derry are poorer than Saturday night showed

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

They had a few years there that they were terrible in the qualifiers but in the last 2 years they have got to a QF and Rnd 4.

I think that they realize that wile Mayo are so dominant in Connacht they need to use the qualifiers for their own improvement

It's important to look at who Galway had in charge also in tomas flaherta who has a poor record compounded by laois as Spillane said also good assistant manager only and after him the manager was hardly great


Walsh has yet to prove he can go to the next level but with sligo showed he's good and could offer potential
Walsh is a huge loss but Galway I think are a coming team and the qualifier will suit them

I'd agree but Galway you could say are building
Armagh we are led to believe have a great great manager by some of the media
Cork are another classic example of awful truly awful defending both in organising and structure and technical defence and one of the greatest myth around is Cork do a blanket defence
In name only as the league and clare and the last three challenge matches conclusively proved and it's not that cork have poor players far from it but they have no proven defence coach