Dairy Farming General

keep going · 21-06-2015 10:48AM

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

What are u doing right that ur getting all this ground nxt door to u?!! Present milk price will certainly change what u can pay for it. Land making €300/acre for grazing six months, might be got for €250 or less now.
Not sure if this is a west cork way of thinking or what, but when ground like that comes up right nxt door, can u afford not to take it?

Alot comes down to a particular set of circumstances in the area at that minute but I try to be straight with peo ple and keep the land looking well and this stage ive a good track record of paying.i will adm7t im getting nearly enough of it now as im not interested in going paid labour route and pushing onto 200 animals on hand im maxing what I can do

mf240 · 21-06-2015 11:24AM

keep going wrote: »

Grassland nextdoor to you in reasonably good order whats it worth, but may require some infrastructure investment on my side , bulk tank and cow accommodation mainly .cows are more or less ready to go , well at a stocking rate id be happy (2.5hec)with for the first year.anyone care to play with a few figures on what rent to pay and what id make out of it

Just playing devils advocate for a minute.

Will you end up growing less grass on your own bit.

Will you end up keeping cows that should be culled to make up number.

Will you end up working longer hours just to pay tax at high rate on extra earnings.

Will you run the risk of getting out bid for it when lease is up after improving it and spending on a tank and housing ect.

kevthegaff · 21-06-2015 11:32AM

keep going wrote: »

Alot comes down to a particular set of circumstances in the area at that minute but I try to be straight with peo ple and keep the land looking well and this stage ive a good track record of paying.i will adm7t im getting nearly enough of it now as im not interested in going paid labour route and pushing onto 200 animals on hand im maxing what I can do

Id go for it keep going, how are u housing wise?

kevthegaff · 21-06-2015 11:36AM

Im milking 120 on my own and its alot tougher than milking 200(used to on home farm) with the father. You have more time on your hands especially this time of the year. Thats one of the main reasons driving me to expansion, a better lifestyle!

awaywithyou · 21-06-2015 12:14PM

kevthegaff wrote: »

Im milking 120 on my own and its alot tougher than milking 200(used to on home farm) with the father. You have more time on your hands especially this time of the year. Thats one of the main reasons driving me to expansion, a better lifestyle!

are u always on your own.....? does it take long to milk....?

Milked out · 21-06-2015 02:10PM

kevthegaff wrote: »

Im milking 120 on my own and its alot tougher than milking 200(used to on home farm) with the father. You have more time on your hands especially this time of the year. Thats one of the main reasons driving me to expansion, a better lifestyle!

Same here, could possibly go to 150 maybe 160 but that would be continuing to buy in maize/ silage and renting ground for replacements and upgrading housing. If making a margin of 10 cent a litre it would take 50 cows doing 6300 litres to pay a wage of €31000 or do with taxes included in that figure so what a take home wage of 25k roughly. Is it sustainable to do so at that scale I dunno, id say I'll have to go part time help till development is done more or less but with weather and milk price unpredictable commiting to full time worker is a big undertaking. Of course with right person efficiency and performance would increase a good bit from a situation of being constantly under pressure yourself

Sacrolyte · 21-06-2015 02:49PM

keep going wrote: »

Grassland nextdoor to you in reasonably good order whats it worth, but may require some infrastructure investment on my side , bulk tank and cow accommodation mainly .cows are more or less ready to go , well at a stocking rate id be happy (2.5hec)with for the first year.anyone care to play with a few figures on what rent to pay and what id make out of it

I have a similar situation here at the moment. Place next door going into grass this year and owner will be leasing it. I'm the only dairy guy adjacent to it so i will probably land it. However I don't intend going over 200/ac as no maps available. As for capex on farm yard I won't be goin mad. Will probably need space for 30 extra but intend going b&b until I see how things pan out.

keep going · 21-06-2015 03:56PM

mf240 wrote: »

Just playing devils advocate for a minute.

Will you end up growing less grass on your own bit.

Will you end up keeping cows that should be culled to make up number.

Will you end up working longer hours just to pay tax at high rate on extra earnings.

Will you run the risk of getting out bid for it when lease is up after improving it and spending on a tank and housing ect.

No, yes, no, probaly not but you never know.just to get the ball rolling.30 acres 9k a year has the potential to generate 50k a year give or take.it has some roadways which I can connect for maybe 2 or 3 .its in reasonable good order grass wise but probaly need a few acres done every now and again but no major revamp so for p and k and lime put 5k or so.water system will need up grading but thats needed on existing block anyway so stick on maybe 3k extra for that.there is winter accommodation available on farm in the shape of a slatted house so my thinking at the minute is it m7ght be used for long term drys.and at the end stick on 5kfor that blocks part of stuff thats going to be done account of being tbere but should be done anyway, bulk tank and parlour feeders and possibly new dairy. And so round capital work out to twenty and divided over 7 years is 3 k a year give or take, add rent at 9 is 12k and put in costs excluding land charge of around 18 cent(150000litres) is 27k gives you39k in coststo generate 50 k a year

kevthegaff · 21-06-2015 06:40PM

awaywithyou wrote: »

are u always on your own.....? does it take long to milk....?

Had a guy with me after the twins were born for 4 weeks, felt like a holiday compared to the norm.. Its things like cleaning calf pens always put on long finger which results in more scour, find it hard to get contractors due to demographics also. On my own for last 7 years one tractor pain in whole yoking on/off slurry spread, fert, topper, scraper. The missus thinks im mad:-D!! I intend on going up in numbers to make it feasible for a labour unit 8 months of the year as i want to be playing footy, few pints and time with the o/h. 2. 12 unit cows come in themselves in morning, start at 6 parlour off after 2 hrs 1/4

Greengrass1 · 21-06-2015 07:36PM

kevthegaff wrote: »

Had a guy with me after the twins were born for 4 weeks, felt like a holiday compared to the norm.. Its things like cleaning calf pens always put on long finger which results in more scour, find it hard to get contractors due to demographics also. On my own for last 7 years one tractor pain in whole yoking on/off slurry spread, fert, topper, scraper. The missus thinks im mad:-D!! I intend on going up in numbers to make it feasible for a labour unit 8 months of the year as i want to be playing footy, few pints and time with the o/h. 2. 12 unit cows come in themselves in morning, start at 6 parlour off after 2 hrs 1/4

Feck I may rethink my parlour so if it's taking you 2 hrs 15 to milk 120.
100 here next yr. And 120/130 on 17. Fingers crossed. Plan was to put in the new 12 unit but have pipes and pumps etc big enough to carry 18/20 units and then if I ever got the opportunity to go past the 130 it wouldn't be a problem all I'd have to do would be take out the tank at back of pit

Feckthis · 21-06-2015 07:44PM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Feck I may rethink my parlour so if it's taking you 2 hrs 15 to milk 120.
100 here next yr. And 120/130 on 17. Fingers crossed. Plan was to put in the new 12 unit but have pipes and pumps etc big enough to carry 18/20 units and then if I ever got the opportunity to go past the 130 it wouldn't be a problem all I'd have to do would be take out the tank at back of pit

How many acres you farming Gg?

Greengrass1 · 21-06-2015 07:52PM

Feckthis wrote: »

How many acres you farming Gg?

150 atm. 13 of that is a natural wood that we'll never be able to touch. No prob carrying 100 ciws and followers aswell as make enough silage for them.

Deepsouthwest · 21-06-2015 08:12PM

keep going wrote: »

No, yes, no, probaly not but you never know.just to get the ball rolling.30 acres 9k a year has the potential to generate 50k a year give or take.it has some roadways which I can connect for maybe 2 or 3 .its in reasonable good order grass wise but probaly need a few acres done every now and again but no major revamp so for p and k and lime put 5k or so.water system will need up grading but thats needed on existing block anyway so stick on maybe 3k extra for that.there is winter accommodation available on farm in the shape of a slatted house so my thinking at the minute is it m7ght be used for long term drys.and at the end stick on 5kfor that blocks part of stuff thats going to be done account of being tbere but should be done anyway, bulk tank and parlour feeders and possibly new dairy. And so round capital work out to twenty and divided over 7 years is 3 k a year give or take, add rent at 9 is 12k and put in costs excluding land charge of around 18 cent(150000litres) is 27k gives you39k in coststo generate 50 k a year

Are u being a bit optimistic with ur 50k a yr extra? Are they're maps included with the ground?

3 the square · 21-06-2015 08:51PM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

150 atm. 13 of that is a natural wood that we'll never be able to touch. No prob carrying 100 ciws and followers aswell as make enough silage for them.

how much of that is around the palour?

Timmaay · 21-06-2015 09:00PM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Feck I may rethink my parlour so if it's taking you 2 hrs 15 to milk 120.
100 here next yr. And 120/130 on 17. Fingers crossed. Plan was to put in the new 12 unit but have pipes and pumps etc big enough to carry 18/20 units and then if I ever got the opportunity to go past the 130 it wouldn't be a problem all I'd have to do would be take out the tank at back of pit

All depends on your cowflow, and milking routine, during the bulk of the grazing season clusters on a a quick teat dip after should be enough. Keep the cows flowing though the parlour between rows helps also definitely, parlour feeders help keep the cows moving also definitely. From closing the holding yard to hitting the Autowasher button taking me about 70mins am and an hr pm for just under 90 cows with 14units at the minute once nothing goes wrong, cows just over their peak at the minute.

Greengrass1 · 21-06-2015 09:12PM

3 the square wrote: »

how much of that is around the palour?

120. 100 available
carry 130 easy as long as I grow 16t grass

3 the square · 21-06-2015 09:54PM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

120. 100 available
carry 130 easy as long as I grow 16t grass

lucky man to have 100 acres around the palour.. how much meal u feeding at d mo ? what % protein meal is it?? and wat kind of yield have u got ?? if im not been too noisey:o

Mulumpy · 21-06-2015 09:58PM

My relief milker of 4 years told me today he's moving on. Got offered a job training farmers to milk for the FRS. Top guy, gonna be impossible find someone as good and reliable as he was

Greengrass1 · 21-06-2015 10:17PM

3 the square wrote: »

lucky man to have 100 acres around the palour.. how much meal u feeding at d mo ? what % protein meal is it?? and wat kind of yield have u got ?? if im not been too noisey:o

That was the plan with selling the 40 ac home block. Parents were sick of having land all over the place.
Was 4kg last 10 days due to lack of grass. Would be 1 or nothing other wise
16%p
cows doing 24l 3.83 p
4.13 bf last collection.
5600l 425kgs ms delivery last yr off 600kgs.
I'd expect it to be 6000l this yr and 500 kgs ms off similar meal

reckon I'll have fed 1t to winter milkers by dry off
hopefully spring milkers will only have half that

3 the square · 21-06-2015 10:24PM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

That was the plan with selling the 40 ac home block. Parents were sick of having land all over the place.
Was 4kg last 10 days due to lack of grass. Would be 1 or nothing other wise
16%p
cows doing 24l 3.83 p
4.13 bf last collection.
5600l 425kgs ms delivery last yr off 600kgs.
I'd expect it to be 6000l this yr and 500 kgs ms off similar meal

reckon I'll have fed 1t to winter milkers by dry off
hopefully spring milkers will only have half that

wood u not keep going with high meal for longer for the spring girls ur getting a gud response ?? I know all about the milk price

keep going · 21-06-2015 10:31PM

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Are u being a bit optimistic with ur 50k a yr extra? Are they're maps included with the ground?

30 cows x5000lx30 cent is 45kplus calf and cull sales.dont know yet what deal will involve so wait and see.been doing a few calculations on the extra work and I reckon about 600 hours.so if you get 10 k profit works out 15 eu an hour

Greengrass1 · 21-06-2015 10:35PM

3 the square wrote: »

wood u not keep going with high meal for longer for the spring girls ur getting a gud response ?? I know all about the milk price

Peak well gone now. No way of individually feeding. I've autumn heifers doing about 15 and others doing 30. Autumn s are putting in enough condition as is
no point in replacing good quality grass

kevthegaff · 21-06-2015 11:03PM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Feck I may rethink my parlour so if it's taking you 2 hrs 15 to milk 120.
100 here next yr. And 120/130 on 17. Fingers crossed. Plan was to put in the new 12 unit but have pipes and pumps etc big enough to carry 18/20 units and then if I ever got the opportunity to go past the 130 it wouldn't be a problem all I'd have to do would be take out the tank at back of pit

Sry greengrass thats inc bringing them up to the field, all depends if i have to take them kn the road ( no traffic), im itching on a new parlour myself! Funds dont allow at the mo

Injuryprone · 22-06-2015 11:35AM

keep going wrote: »

No, yes, no, probaly not but you never know.just to get the ball rolling.30 acres 9k a year has the potential to generate 50k a year give or take.it has some roadways which I can connect for maybe 2 or 3 .its in reasonable good order grass wise but probaly need a few acres done every now and again but no major revamp so for p and k and lime put 5k or so.water system will need up grading but thats needed on existing block anyway so stick on maybe 3k extra for that.there is winter accommodation available on farm in the shape of a slatted house so my thinking at the minute is it m7ght be used for long term drys.and at the end stick on 5kfor that blocks part of stuff thats going to be done account of being tbere but should be done anyway, bulk tank and parlour feeders and possibly new dairy. And so round capital work out to twenty and divided over 7 years is 3 k a year give or take, add rent at 9 is 12k and put in costs excluding land charge of around 18 cent(150000litres) is 27k gives you39k in coststo generate 50 k a year

Are you missing a figure for the cost of the additional 30 cows?

Deepsouthwest · 22-06-2015 01:14PM

keep going wrote: »

30 cows x5000lx30 cent is 45kplus calf and cull sales.dont know yet what deal will involve so wait and see.been doing a few calculations on the extra work and I reckon about 600 hours.so if you get 10 k profit works out 15 eu an hour

Have the 30 extra cows ready to go? There's a fair cost in rearing 30 extra heifers from the time u AI the cow to the time the heifer stands in the parlour. It's a cost I certainly wouldn't be excluding.

RightTurnClyde · 22-06-2015 01:23PM

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Have the 30 extra cows ready to go? There's a fair cost in rearing 30 extra heifers from the time u AI the cow to the time the heifer stands in the parlour. It's a cost I certainly wouldn't be excluding.

They are a big expansion cost. Absolutely eat into cash flow till they walk into the parlour

browned · 22-06-2015 01:34PM

saw on twitter I think that a replacement heifer will only start to make money from mid second lactation. it takes a lactation and a half to pay for her rearing alone. just an average figure obviously every farm is different

mahoney_j · 22-06-2015 01:41PM

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

They are a big expansion cost. Absolutely eat into cash flow till they walk into the parlour

I'm costing a heifer at close to 1500 from birth to parlour .they are a huge cost to expanding herds

Greengrass1 · 22-06-2015 01:50PM

Definitely a serious cosy in rearing extra heifers. Most don't see it. That's the biggest thing lads say to me when they start contract rearing
you have to write a cheque each month and that's when ye see it
alot say 900 to rear 300 opportunity cost

RightTurnClyde · 22-06-2015 01:50PM

mahoney_j wrote: »

I'm costing a heifer at close to 1500 from birth to parlour .they are a huge cost to expanding herds

That's about the go of it. At least as a replacement heifer you have the cull cow to offset some of that. As an expansion heifer she is costing that plus loss of calf sales.
To expand by 20% is costing about 300/cow for stock alone (no capex or infrastructure costs). though going at 2? c/l

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