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Abortions for 3,735, minature flags for nobody

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Comments

  • #572
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    lazygal wrote: »
    Perineal tearing
    Mastitis
    Incontinence
    Post natal depression
    Dental problems
    Stretch marks
    Uterine rupture
    C section scarring
    UTIs
    Gestational diabetes
    SPD
    Post natal infections


    Many women suffer from all, some or one of the above, myself included. Stop.pretending pregnancy labour and birth have no short medium or long term effects on women.

    And if I walked outside I could be killed. Lets abort all babies incase someone suffers from stretch marks. My word. Are you dead after all that?


  • #573
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    But it is law already. Abortion is illegal in Ireland. Are you saying that you want to make it illegal for women to travel abroad for abortions? How would this be enforced?

    No I'm saying for the law to change that if a man doesn't consent, she can be charged when she sets foot back in the country


  • #574
    inocybe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 505 ✭✭✭inocybe


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    No I'm saying for the law to change that if a man doesn't consent, she can be charged when she sets foot back in the country

    how would you prove she didn't have a miscarriage?


  • #575
    stinkle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭stinkle


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    And if I walked outside I could be killed. Lets abort all babies incase someone suffers from stretch marks. My word. Are you dead after all that?
    WHat does that comment have to do with the very real problems faced by women undergoing pregnancy and childbirth? You said you got your girlfriend pregnant - maybe you should brush up on what you guys are letting yourselves in for.


  • #576
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    inocybe wrote: »
    how would you prove she didn't have a miscarriage?

    I dunno. I don't make laws. All laws can be abused. Should we have no laws at all so?


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  • #577
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    No I'm saying for the law to change that if a man doesn't consent, she can be charged when she sets foot back in the country

    Do you think this will encourage women who are not in stable relationships to even tell the man that they are pregnant? I surely wouldn't say a word if I didn't want to be pregnant and I thought he would try and charge me on my return from England. Since it is her body, she is under no obligation to even tell him. So how would she be charged in this case?


  • #578
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    stinkle wrote: »
    WHat does that comment have to do with the very real problems faced by women undergoing pregnancy and childbirth? You said you got your girlfriend pregnant - maybe you should brush up on what you guys are letting yourselves in for.

    Delivering a healthy baby trumps minor problems ( some more serious than others I accept) a woman may hypothetically encounter in my opinion


  • #579
    inocybe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 505 ✭✭✭inocybe


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    I dunno. I don't make laws. All laws can be abused. Should we have no laws at all so?

    not stupid unworkable ones, no.


  • #580
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    Do you think this will encourage women who are not in stable relationships to even tell the man that they are pregnant? I surely wouldn't say a word if I didn't want to be pregnant and I thought he would try and charge me on my return from England. Since it is her body, she is under no obligation to even tell him. So how would she be charged in this case?

    You're right. Some people are just selfish and inconsiderate


  • #581
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    inocybe wrote: »
    not stupid unworkable ones, no.

    In you're opinion. I'm sure it would be a major deterrent, especially by law if a father had to be informed of any hospital visits in relation to pregnancy


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  • #582
    stinkle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭stinkle


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    Delivering a healthy baby trumps minor problems ( some more serious than others I accept) a woman may hypothetically encounter in my opinion
    Are you saying they're all minor problems? How do you decide which are more worthy than others?


  • #583
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    stinkle wrote: »
    Are you saying they're all minor problems? How do you decide which are more worthy than others?

    I don't, but if it's not life threatening, then the babies delivery by c-section etc trumps


  • #584
    inocybe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 505 ✭✭✭inocybe


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    In you're opinion. I'm sure it would be a major deterrent, especially by law if a father had to be informed of any hospital visits in relation to pregnancy

    That would work well - who's to say who the father is?


  • #585
    _Whimsical_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,994 ✭✭✭_Whimsical_


    lazygal wrote: »
    Perineal tearing
    Mastitis
    Incontinence
    Post natal depression
    Dental problems
    Stretch marks
    Uterine rupture
    C section scarring
    UTIs
    Gestational diabetes
    SPD
    Post natal infections


    Many women suffer from all, some or one of the above, myself included. Stop.pretending pregnancy labour and birth have no short medium or long term effects on women.


    I'm not going to suggest labour is easy or that motherhood is,it's really difficult, having a child you don't want would be awful but if you are to go at it from that angle having an abortion can have longterm health effects too,
    Google says :
    Potential, more serious complications following an abortion.
    Heavy or persistent bleeding.
    Infection or sepsis.
    Damage to the cervix.
    Scarring of the uterine lining.
    Perforation of the uterus.
    Damage to other organs.
    Death.

    They aren't reasons to not have an abortion for most people though, and the trials and traumas of motherhood aren't a great reason to not have a baby either if you believe that a foetus is a living child.


  • #586
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    In you're opinion. I'm sure it would be a major deterrent, especially by law if a father had to be informed of any hospital visits in relation to pregnancy

    So are you saying that a woman who refuses to name the father should be refused antenatal treatment?


  • #587
    stinkle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭stinkle


    _Whimsical_ wrote: »
    I'm not going to suggest labour is easy or that motherhood is but if you are to go at it from that angle having an abortion can have longterm health effects too,
    Google says :
    Potential, more serious complications following an abortion.
    Heavy or persistent bleeding.
    Infection or sepsis.
    Damage to the cervix.
    Scarring of the uterine lining.
    Perforation of the uterus.
    Damage to other organs.
    Death.

    They aren't reasons to not have an abortion for most people though, and the trials and traumas of motherhood aren't a great reason to not have a baby either if you believe that a foetus is a living child.

    Thats surgical abortion? And did Dr Google pull thsoe stats from reputable clinics or is that also from DIY situations? Im fairly sure medical abortions (ie pill) are the method of choice for 1st trimester terminations - the most common.


  • #588
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    So are you saying that a woman who refuses to name the father should be refused antenatal treatment?

    Of course not, but it will be noted that they are obviously pregnant, and if they then abort they could be in trouble. I dunno. I just threw out the idea. Maybe something better could be put in place


  • #589
    stinkle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭stinkle


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    I don't, but if it's not life threatening, then the babies delivery by c-section etc trumps
    you are aware that women are only supposed to have so many sections, right? and it's not a walk in the park either.


  • #590
    _Whimsical_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,994 ✭✭✭_Whimsical_


    stinkle wrote: »
    Thats surgical abortion? And did Dr Google pull thsoe stats from reputable clinics or is that also from DIY situations? Im fairly sure medical abortions (ie pill) are the method of choice for 1st trimester terminations - the most common.

    American Pregnancy Association good enough for you ?:)


    http://americanpregnancy.org/unplanned-pregnancy/abortion-side-effects/

    Is there really a need for the tone?


  • #591
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    stinkle wrote: »
    you are aware that women are only supposed to have so many sections, right? and it's not a walk in the park either.

    Maybe then they will have to have a natural birth? Who knows? If they wanted it themselves they would be fine to go through with whatever, but when it's the father it's fine to rob him of his child?


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  • #592
    stinkle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭stinkle


    _Whimsical_ wrote: »
    American Pregnancy Association good enough for you ?:)


    http://americanpregnancy.org/unplanned-pregnancy/abortion-side-effects/

    Is there really a need for the tone?

    What tone? Thanks for the source - you omitted the <1/100 1st trimester and 1/50 late term figures though. So not really a big deal, especially as late term cases would involve FFA as opposed to just waking up one day at 6 months pregnant and deciding to have an abortion for the craic. There's usually very good reason for taking action so late.


  • #593
    stinkle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭stinkle


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    Maybe then they will have to have a natural birth? Who knows? If they wanted it themselves they would be fine to go through with whatever, but when it's the father it's fine to rob him of his child?
    Vaginal birth after caesarian isn't always an option. And while many women might want that, it's a big gamble. Yes if the woman wants to continue with pregnancy for 9 months and deal with the physiological changes then great, go for it. It has no effect on the man's health or well being. If she doesnt then she should have the choice not to. Again, no effect on man's health or wellbeing.


  • #594
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    stinkle wrote: »
    Vaginal birth after caesarian isn't always an option. And while many women might want that, it's a big gamble. Yes if the woman wants to continue with pregnancy for 9 months and deal with the physiological changes then great, go for it. It has no effect on the man's health or well being. If she doesnt then she should have the choice not to. Again, no effect on man's health or wellbeing.

    Apart from the well being of his child? Physiological issues only effect women these days?


  • #595
    stinkle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭stinkle


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    Apart from the well being of his child? Physiological issues only effect women these days?
    do you know what physiological means? Look it up


  • #596
    _Whimsical_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,994 ✭✭✭_Whimsical_


    stinkle wrote: »
    What tone? Thanks for the source - you omitted the <1/100 1st trimester and 1/50 late term figures though. So not really a big deal, especially as late term cases would involve FFA as opposed to just waking up one day at 6 months pregnant and deciding to have an abortion for the craic. There's usually very good reason for taking action so late.

    Well I was responding to a post where there were no incidences given for problems occurring in pregnancy. I wouldn't consider the severity of those side effects at that incidence to be no big deal really, it's a procedure that carries risks, not a walk in the park either.


  • #597
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    stinkle wrote: »
    do you know what physiological means? Look it up

    Sorry read it as psychological. Does a man's psychological well being not count either though? We hear enough about the psychological issues woman face, never a lot about the man


  • #598
    _Whimsical_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,994 ✭✭✭_Whimsical_


    stinkle wrote: »
    do you know what physiological means? Look it up

    Oh there's the tone again.

    It's obviously just a typo or predictive text blip, you know what he/she means. That sort of thing makes you look a little unnecessarily nasty.


  • #599
    stinkle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭stinkle


    _Whimsical_ wrote: »
    Well I was responding to a post where there were no incidences given for problems occurring in pregnancy. I wouldn't consider the severity of those side effects at that incidence to be no big deal really, it's a procedure that carries risks, not a walk in the park either.
    I never said it was a walk in the park. it'd be great to have a choice and weigh up the pros and cons and make an educated decision though. Especially without having fear of breaking the law hanging over you, or added stress such as travel issues. Grown women should be allowed make their decision in consultation with their medical team. And minors who get pregnant too.


  • #600
    stinkle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭stinkle


    _Whimsical_ wrote: »
    Oh there's the tone again.

    It's obviously just a typo or predictive text blip, you know what he/she means. That sort of thing makes you look a little unnecessarily nasty.
    He clearly doesn't, as its a term I used in the post he quoted and is parroting back. I used it in relation to labour and pregnancy and the toll they take on the female anatomy. Is there a reason you're attacking me and not my posts BTW? I've gone to the bother of using correct terminology and reason


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  • #601
    _Whimsical_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,994 ✭✭✭_Whimsical_


    stinkle wrote: »
    I never said it was a walk in the park. it'd be great to have a choice and weigh up the pros and cons and make an educated decision though. Especially without having fear of breaking the law hanging over you, or added stress such as travel issues. Grown women should be allowed make their decision in consultation with their medical team. And minors who get pregnant too.

    Well I definitely agree that having an abortion should not be illegal under our current laws,and never should have been. Performing one should be illegal as things stand. I don't believe that any woman decides to have one lightly,and some do so absolutely heartbrokenly. They shouldn't fear any penalty.


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