Cork GAA Discussion Thread

thinkstoomuch1 · 09-06-2015 11:55PM

Figsy32 wrote: »

I have to disagree. Horgan does work but he can't keep up with lads at this level. It's similar to why Cronin gets so much unwarranted stick.

You keep mentioning his Glen performances and more recently his game against Ballymartle as a stick to beat him with. He hit 6 points from play in that game. I don't know how much else he's expected to do.

I'd personally like to see him used like Donnacha is used in the footballers. Brought on for last 20 mins for experience and the extra bit of class when defenders are tired and the game is more open. Him getting the brunt of the criticism is very unfair though IMO.

I agree drop him and he's be better
No its not unfair to do what kk do and criteria critise field play
Did cody think it's unfair when he dropped Carter Walsh Joyce etc
Was that unfair?
To even think of getting like kk cork have to be ruthless like them

Figsy32 · 10-06-2015 12:02AM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I agree drop him and he's be better
No its not unfair to do what kk do and criteria critise field play
Did cody think it's unfair when he dropped Carter Walsh Joyce etc
Was that unfair?
To even think of getting like kk cork have to be ruthless like them

But Kilkenny also had lads to come in. We don't realistically. Darren Mc doesn't look ready going by his preseason performances.

You ask where he was in the county final. I'll ask you do you remember where he was in the last 10 minutes against Dublin in the 2013 All-Ireland semi? He was winning us the game. When Cork need something it's him who generally, obviously not always, steps up. Harnedy is in the process of becoming the main man but if there's a score needed to win a game it's Hoggy who I want to have the ball and I think the vast majority of Cork fans would agree.

Waternut · 10-06-2015 12:20AM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

The game was open and glen were flying
Typical he's game
Last ten minutes what did he do
Nothing yet less talented hurlers McCarthy got great goal
What did he do in the county final and semi final
Pace has nothing to do with it
Serious like
Kelly king Henry and joe canning had no great pace
Were making excuses for him
Pace has nothing to do with attitude imo
That comes from the legs where want desire dogged resolve doesn't

Got to totally disagree with you there TTM. Horgan is by far Corks best forward - wristy, touch wise, striking etc but he has always lacked pace and Connors was out front of him every time. Hoggy could have the best attitude in the world but if he is second to the ball there is little he can do about it. Cronin may also lack pace (not 100% convinced either as taller players sometimes seem like they are slower then they actually are) but he was given a free role on Sunday, nobody was picking him up. His marker De Burca was sitting in the sweeper role and hurled an amount of ball but gave up 5 points in the process. You are clutching at straws if you think Kelly or Shefflin were slow. Kelly in his prime - early to mid twenties, was electric and simply unplayable. Shefflin had everything and certainly did not lack pace.

commonsense. · 10-06-2015 12:22AM

Figsy32 wrote:

But Kilkenny also had lads to come in. We don't realistically. Darren Mc doesn't look ready going by his preseason performances.

You ask where he was in the county final. I'll ask you do you remember where he was in the last 10 minutes against Dublin in the 2013 All-Ireland semi? He was winning us the game. When Cork need something it's him who generally, obviously not always, steps up. Harnedy is in the process of becoming the main man but if there's a score needed to win a game it's Hoggy who I want to have the ball and I think the vast majority of Cork fans would agree.

You're dead right. We all know Hoggy disappears for long periods in games and sometimes has stinkers like last Sunday. But the guy is obviously doing his level best every day he dons a Cork jersey. The suggestion that by dropping him he is suddenly going to up his performance hugely is nonsense. In the absence of anything better out there(and there isn't anything better) he has to start.

Hurleratheart · 10-06-2015 12:29AM

Waternut wrote: »

Got to totally disagree with you there TTM. Horgan is by far Corks best forward - wristy, touch wise, striking etc but he has always lacked pace and Connors was out front of him every time. Hoggy could have the best attitude in the world but if he is second to the ball there is little he can do about it. Cronin may also lack pace (not 100% convinced either as taller players sometimes seem like they are slower then they actually are) but he was given a free role on Sunday, nobody was picking him up. His marker De Burca was sitting in the sweeper role and hurled an amount of ball but gave up 5 points in the process. You are clutching at straws if you think Kelly or Shefflin were slow. Kelly in his prime - early to mid twenties, was electric and simply unplayable. Shefflin had everything and certainly did not lack pace.

In 2 minds about him but I agree with you the man has grate wrists
He does fabolous things and the. Disappears
Disappointing the way he hasn't turned up in key matche for Glen and then he can turn a game in a second with something magical
Unlike Henry and Kelly he hasn't had the support around him they have no doubt a factor to
In any case he has his name in cork history books

thinkstoomuch1 · 10-06-2015 12:34AM

Pace doesnt justfiy a lack of work ethic
Cocronan was not fast but he out of position worked hard
I agree two year ago he was great but this and last year he was poor
Noboddy denies hes skill but from play but he mist perform from open play
Horgan had a clear goal chance but never used the free man
Hes an expierenced player to be fair.

Waternut · 10-06-2015 12:36AM

Great wrists and immaculate first touch. There are probably only a handful of hurlers out there with his first touch. But he does lack pace and will always be in trouble against nippy defenders like Connors. Fantastic hurler though and as mentioned has carried the Cork team a number of times.

thinkstoomuch1 · 10-06-2015 12:42AM

Waternut wrote: »

Great wrists and immaculate first touch. There are probably only a handful of hurlers out there with his first touch. But he does lack pace and will always be in trouble against nippy defenders like Connors. Fantastic hurler though and as mentioned has carried the Cork team a number of times.

How did cocron survive
Kelly and shefflin had no raw pace
Dowling for limerick has no pace but he performs

Waternut · 10-06-2015 12:47AM

Again, Corcoran was not slow (Landers now there was a player that lacked pace) and Corcoran was a completely and utterly different type of player to Hoggy.

Figsy32 · 10-06-2015 12:56AM

Thinking over the game I have to say Lorchan was a massive loss to Cork. Before Waterford fans say anything I'm not proclaiming him to be a great hurler and I'm not saying we would've won with him. It's merely a case of illustrating what JBM May have been trying to do and the deficiencies in our squad.

Cork's apparent plan as shown by our first score was to work the ball out up the wings. It went Nash, Murphy, Murphy, cross field ball bypassing the defensive system and score.

Cork could do this on the left side of their defence as they had two excellent ball players in the Murphys who were comfortable in working the ball out.

On the right side of our defence we had O'Neill and Cahalane. Whatever your opinion on the two lads I think it's fair to say that short, quick hurling wouldn't be their strongpoint. We couldn't get the same type of attack starting from deep on this side. Similarly, whatever anyone might say about Lorchan, his one main strength is his use of the ball in tight situations. If he or another ball playing wing back was available we may have gotten a lot more easy ball into Lehane like we were to Walsh.

In fairness to Waterford I think this clicked with them and they seemed happy to let Shane O'Neill to gather short puckouts in the 2nd half knowing he wouldn't be able to work the ball as was done on the opposite flank in the 1st half.

That's a case of ifs and buts. It doesn't speak well of our depth of panel though that we didn't have anybody capable of carrying out that sort of assignment.

Corcaigh Abu1 · 10-06-2015 10:11AM

Figsy32 wrote: »

Thinking over the game I have to say Lorchan was a massive loss to Cork. Before Waterford fans say anything I'm not proclaiming him to be a great hurler and I'm not saying we would've won with him. It's merely a case of illustrating what JBM May have been trying to do and the deficiencies in our squad.

Cork's apparent plan as shown by our first score was to work the ball out up the wings. It went Nash, Murphy, Murphy, cross field ball bypassing the defensive system and score.

Cork could do this on the left side of their defence as they had two excellent ball players in the Murphys who were comfortable in working the ball out.

On the right side of our defence we had O'Neill and Cahalane. Whatever your opinion on the two lads I think it's fair to say that short, quick hurling wouldn't be their strongpoint. We couldn't get the same type of attack starting from deep on this side. Similarly, whatever anyone might say about Lorchan, his one main strength is his use of the ball in tight situations. If he or another ball playing wing back was available we may have gotten a lot more easy ball into Lehane like we were to Walsh.

In fairness to Waterford I think this clicked with them and they seemed happy to let Shane O'Neill to gather short puckouts in the 2nd half knowing he wouldn't be able to work the ball as was done on the opposite flank in the 1st half.

That's a case of ifs and buts. It doesn't speak well of our depth of panel though that we didn't have anybody capable of carrying out that sort of assignment.

Agree with O Neill on the short puck out. He didnt look comfortable with it at all, and ended up pucking long aimless balls which defeated the purpose. This was also down to waterford forwards being so fast and eager to close the receiver of the short puck out down.

The cork back receiving the ball didnt have the confidence to take the man on or draw him close even and then release/handpass the ball to the other defender who should of been in support. This is what led to Waterfords first goal. Stephen MacD picked up a loose ball, had time turn to play the ball to another defender, nobody was therer or he didnt want to try and take the incoming tackle (therer was two WD players rushing him) and hit and aimless ball which set up the Shanahan goal

the ball should of been worked up then with short passing to the free man around the 40 who could have a pop. this was how cronin scored most of his points. Calahane, to be fair, did pick him out for one of these, but id agree that he is not the most accurate. To be fair they were doing this in the first 20 until WD got the goal. Cork even finished the half strongly. Second half was a different story..

Have to hand it to waterford, they dont panic. Against Tipp in league semi after Tipps two early goals it looked like game over but they stuck at it. Again, last Sunday it looked like cork were gonna tear ahead in first 20 but they came from behind each time. That has to be admired.

thinkstoomuch1 · 10-06-2015 10:26AM

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/clare-hit-by-injury-crisis-as-six-players-ruled-out-for-cork-clash-335654.html
Huge signifcance now to the game
We saw how cork and clare hurling struggled over injury and clare never had forwards really so they could be well beaten and cork look better than they are

A dissater for clare bit imo equally as so for cork as this set up has lived off false dawns and sunday be no diffetent

If cork blanket is good shouldnt concede more than six points in truth with five clare forwards out
Dublin held longford to around nine points

A big win now for cork and all the talk the root and branch review worked well
This imo is awful prepartion for the lead up to kerry who will learn so much from a tippesry test in their game

dcrosskid · 10-06-2015 11:01AM

Hurleratheart wrote: »

In 2 minds about him but I agree with you the man has grate wrists
He does fabolous things and the. Disappears
Disappointing the way he hasn't turned up in key matche for Glen and then he can turn a game in a second with something magical
Unlike Henry and Kelly he hasn't had the support around him they have no doubt a factor to
In any case he has his name in cork history books

To be fair Kelly had very little support between 02 & 07. He carried us those years and kept us someway competitive. He was never blessed with pace but could read a pass before anyone else & once he had possession it more often than not ended in a score. He always took up great positions & when it came to determination to win a ball he was unrivaled. It was before my time but from hearing from some who saw him when he was underage he was a bully on the hurling field using his strength. Everyone knew he had the skill but also the toughness also so it wasn't as simple as putting a sledger on him.

Horgan has the same level of skill as Kelly, no questions about it but has he the same mentalilty? No way.

thinkstoomuch1 · 10-06-2015 11:55AM

dcrosskid wrote: »

To be fair Kelly had very little support between 02 & 07. He carried us those years and kept us someway competitive. He was never blessed with pace but could read a pass before anyone else & once he had possession it more often than not ended in a score. He always took up great positions & when it came to determination to win a ball he was unrivaled. It was before my time but from hearing from some who saw him when he was underage he was a bully on the hurling field using his strength. Everyone knew he had the skill but also the toughness also so it wasn't as simple as putting a sledger on him.

Horgan has the same level of skill as Kelly, no questions about it but has he the same mentalilty? No way.

I totally agree kelly was sensationsl and had no pace

CORKDOUBLE · 10-06-2015 09:00PM

I read elsewhere that Stephen Moylan and Jamie Coughlan have quit the panel ....if this news is true its a disaster ....I hope not .

willietherock · 10-06-2015 09:36PM

CORKDOUBLE wrote: »

I read elsewhere that Stephen Moylan and Jamie Coughlan have quit the panel ....if this news is true its a disaster ....I hope not .

its over if that's true

Canyon86 · 10-06-2015 10:06PM

where did this come from lads?

worrying if true,

It makes sense · 10-06-2015 10:33PM

willietherock wrote: »

its over if that's true

God I hope not but what would they think of McCarthy who is a keeper getting on before them on Sunday. Nothing against McCarthy I know people will say he has being playing well but must mean JBM does not rate the other forwards on the panel

CORKDOUBLE · 10-06-2015 10:57PM

CORKDOUBLE wrote: »

I read elsewhere that Stephen Moylan and Jamie Coughlan have quit the panel ....if this news is true its a disaster ....I hope not .

Its from a poster on the Blood and Bandage site ??

pluszap · 11-06-2015 01:22AM

t: @JohnFogartyIrl with news of a possible departure from Cork hurling panel in tomorrow's @ExaminerSport

thinkstoomuch1 · 11-06-2015 01:40AM

pluszap wrote: »

t: @JohnFogartyIrl with news of a possible departure from Cork hurling panel in tomorrow's @ExaminerSport

Its jamie coughlan and to be fair hes never got games when mcarthy has so like sullivan not good for moral and while i dont think cian mac was cork level he leaving and egan refusing rejoin thinks are bad
One jbm greatest gifys was player management but the recsll murphy as i said at yhe time with dual playrrd last year and some getting chances while othets dont means imo moral is at a low and dont be shocked if jbm goes as hes humble enough to know if he lost playets believe he imo could leave and if not i cant see him staying next year now

thinkstoomuch1 · 11-06-2015 01:43AM

willietherock wrote: »

its over if that's true

Im sad to say you could be right

Orizio · 11-06-2015 02:35AM

Waternut wrote: »

Got to totally disagree with you there TTM. Horgan is by far Corks best forward - wristy, touch wise, striking etc but he has always lacked pace and Connors was out front of him every time. Hoggy could have the best attitude in the world but if he is second to the ball there is little he can do about it. Cronin may also lack pace (not 100% convinced either as taller players sometimes seem like they are slower then they actually are) but he was given a free role on Sunday, nobody was picking him up. His marker De Burca was sitting in the sweeper role and hurled an amount of ball but gave up 5 points in the process. You are clutching at straws if you think Kelly or Shefflin were slow. Kelly in his prime - early to mid twenties, was electric and simply unplayable. Shefflin had everything and certainly did not lack pace.

Nonsense, Harnedy is by far Cork's best forward. Has all of Horgan's talent plus the leadership and work-rate to match.

Fireball07 · 11-06-2015 02:43AM

Harnedy is clearly Cork's best forward.

And I know it's a big commitment, but you really can't afford to be losing any more fringe players, no team can. In this instance, it might be the manager's fault... I think Coughlan is very talented. Conor O'Sullivan too, I think he's one of Cork's best two corner-backs tbh.

I wouldn't rate Egan as highly now, but at least he's a good backup option. It is a failure of a coaching staff if you can't keep your players happy though... you need to have a bench too.

Orizio · 11-06-2015 02:49AM

Egan would be better than Cahalane and Murphy going on Sunday. Not a great improvement, but noentheless an improvement. But he isn't interested, so thats that really.

I wouldn't say Conor Sul is better than any of the full-back line honestly. However he is definitely the best suited to playing sweeper in the entire squad. Coughlan, Moylan and Conor Sul are all lads that would be useful/suited if Cork played a short game like they tried on Sunday, all three have a good touch and use the ball well. Moylan works harder than most as well.

The way JBM prefers to play, they aren't anywhere near as useful.

HillFarmer · 11-06-2015 09:06AM

Fireball07 wrote: »

Harnedy is clearly Cork's best forward.

And I know it's a big commitment, but you really can't afford to be losing any more fringe players, no team can. In this instance, it might be the manager's fault... I think Coughlan is very talented. Conor O'Sullivan too, I think he's one of Cork's best two corner-backs tbh.

I wouldn't rate Egan as highly now, but at least he's a good backup option. It is a failure of a coaching staff if you can't keep your players happy though... you need to have a bench too.

Harnedy is a good forward but Horgan IMO is being slated on this forum.

Horgan has always had an issue with the likes of Connors from Waterford.
SO what did the Cork management do in the match? keep him in the corner so Connors could have him.

Why o why did Cork not bring Horgan out to midfield? If Pa Cronin scored 5 points from play I'm sure Horgan would have done likewise and possibly more. He is a great stickman and just not managed correctly IMO.

Also have never seen so much negativity on a Cork thread. FFS you were in an All Ireland 2 years a go and with 2 minutes to go last Sunday were 2 points down. Imagine if you had tactical manager?

Cork have the players, just have to get your s**t together.

Horse84 · 11-06-2015 09:28AM

HillFarmer wrote: »

Harnedy is a good forward but Horgan IMO is being slated on this forum.

Horgan has always had an issue with the likes of Connors from Waterford.
SO what did the Cork management do in the match? keep him in the corner so Connors could have him.

Why o why did Cork not bring Horgan out to midfield? If Pa Cronin scored 5 points from play I'm sure Horgan would have done likewise and possibly more. He is a great stickman and just not managed correctly IMO.

Also have never seen so much negativity on a Cork thread. FFS you were in an All Ireland 2 years a go and with 2 minutes to go last Sunday were 2 points down. Imagine if you had tactical manager?

Cork have the players, just have to get your s**t together.

I agree re Horgan and said before the game that he had to be moved out of there. From the word go he was left inside and I knew we could be in for a long day.
As regards being negative u can call it what u like we're entitled to say what we feel about our own team. You call it negativity I call it reality. Jesus half the problem here is not calling things as they in the county and it's been going on for years. We get vilified sometimes for being arrogant cork whores but if we give an honest opinion then we're too negative. If I saw things to be positive about Sunday id have said it.
As to being in an all Ireland final 2 years ago I mean I dunno what the hell you mean when u say that. All Ireland's are for winning not for saying we were there. Living off past victories is one thing living off past defeats is something else.

thinkstoomuch1 · 11-06-2015 09:39AM

Horse84 wrote: »

I agree re Horgan and said before the game that he had to be moved out of there. From the word go he was left inside and I knew we could be in for a long day.
As regards being negative u can call it what u like we're entitled to say what we feel about our own team. You call it negativity I call it reality. Jesus half the problem here is not calling things as they in the county and it's been going on for years. We get vilified sometimes for being arrogant cork whores but if we give an honest opinion then we're too negative. If I saw things to be positive about Sunday id have said it.
As to being in an all Ireland final 2 years ago I mean I dunno what the hell you mean when u say that. All Ireland's are for winning not for saying we were there. Living off past victories is one thing living off past defeats is something else.

Splendid post and attuides like this are yhe only way cork gaa can evolve and again be gteat as such balls honesty and conviction within it
What a complete load of rubbish this do not critise motto

I unfortibsyely was right again
Kerrigan another interview in the paper talking the good talk about three hundred sixty degree turns vkerry
He really imo shows attuide cork when he says league was a success
What rubbish

I have no problem lads doing interviews but when its same lads week aftee week doing it failing in big games its wrong

I predixted this tuesday and i did as like i said cork football as predictable as night follows day just like the team selection imo

thinkstoomuch1 · 11-06-2015 09:40AM

Cork team named later

thinkstoomuch1 · 11-06-2015 09:42AM

HillFarmer wrote: »

Harnedy is a good forward but Horgan IMO is being slated on this forum.

Horgan has always had an issue with the likes of Connors from Waterford.
SO what did the Cork management do in the match? keep him in the corner so Connors could have him.

Why o why did Cork not bring Horgan out to midfield? If Pa Cronin scored 5 points from play I'm sure Horgan would have done likewise and possibly more. He is a great stickman and just not managed correctly IMO.

Also have never seen so much negativity on a Cork thread. FFS you were in an All Ireland 2 years a go and with 2 minutes to go last Sunday were 2 points down. Imagine if you had tactical manager?

Cork have the players, just have to get your s**t together.

With respect i respect your right to opinon but such nonense imo

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