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Cyclists should do a theory test!

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Comments

  • #632
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    No you're not, you're cycling, therefore you are not contributing any more to the tax take, you may well have contributed some to the tax take when you were driving last weekend or something but as soon as you put the car on the drive you become ( effectively ) a leech, sucking on your previous contributions to the tax take.

    You're all starting to sound like those FM late night callers now, " I had a job for 6 months and paid my taxes, now I can stay on the dole for life " ones

    You mean I can get a refund on my motor tax that I paid for the days I don't use it, oh wait, no.

    By cycling I will reduce the cost to the HSE over time through reduced physical and mental illneses. So a positive for the economy.

    I have become more productive at work, therefore improving my employers cost return for hiring me, improving our ability to do business and increasing my wages over time which leads to me spending more, increasing my contribution to the tax base in multiple ways. So a positive to the economy.

    If I did not cycle I would walk. If I drove I would increase traffic volumes, reducing the economy slightly, decrease my health, costing the economy more. My cycling does not slow other road users down, no special changes to my route have had to be made because I am a cyclists. So still, apositive for the economy.

    I am not sure what knowledge you have of how the economy works but its sounds shockingly ill informed. Would you like me to provide you with links to studies and investigations of how cycling has contributed to economies in Europe and America over the past few years, I think you will find that I am far from a leech.


  • #633
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    smash wrote: »
    Not really. A cyclist doesn't pay anything for the use of a road. A motorist HAS to pay motor tax for the use of a road. Not to mention they Have to have a license and their vehicle MUST pass a road safety test.

    You might need to visit a pharmacy for some aspirin talking to cyclists!
    It must be time to introduce mandatory helmets for cyclists, the only reason I can think for them NOT understanding plain English is that they've had a fall and become brain damaged in some way


  • #634
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    smash wrote: »
    Not really. A cyclist doesn't pay anything for the use of a road. A motorist HAS to pay motor tax for the use of a road. Not to mention they Have to have a license and their vehicle MUST pass a road safety test.

    Yes really. A cyclist pays tax, every time they earn money, every time they spend money (including spending on their bike). They pay tax. Tax pays for the road, and the cycle lane.

    You correctly point out that a driver has to pass a test and hold a licence. And if you look around you for five minutes, you'll see that this doesn't do much for the standard of driving on our roads, given the extent of law-breaking by drivers. Not to mention the 200+ deaths each year and maiming of thousands of others - by drivers (not cyclists).


  • #635
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    No you're not, you're cycling, therefore you are not contributing any more to the tax take, you may well have contributed some to the tax take when you were driving last weekend or something but as soon as you put the car on the drive you become ( effectively ) a leech, sucking on your previous contributions to the tax take.

    You're all starting to sound like those FM late night callers now, " I had a job for 6 months and paid my taxes, now I can stay on the dole for life " ones

    Brilliant, so we get rebates on our motor tax every time we cycle?


  • #636
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/348943/vfm-assessment-of-cycling-grants.pdf

    http://www.ecf.com/wp-content/uploads/ECF_Economic-benefits-of-cycling-in-EU-27.pdf


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  • #637
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Brilliant, so we get rebates on our motor tax every time we cycle?

    No, but you can get a rebate if you have more than 3 months left to run and fill in a SORN


  • #638
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    No, but you can get a rebate if you have more than 3 months left to run and fill in a SORN

    So no is the answer, thanks, glad you could clear that up.


  • #639
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    No, but you can get a rebate if you have more than 3 months left to run and fill in a SORN

    Ah, so as motor tax paying cyclists we do fully contribute then. Again that's brilliant.

    And people roll their eyes when taxi drivers say they can solve all the countrys woes during a short cross city trip.


  • #640
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    CramCycle wrote: »
    You mean I can get a refund on my motor tax that I paid for the days I don't use it, oh wait, no.

    You can get a refund for periods of 3 months at a time. Or you used to be able to anyway.
    RainyDay wrote: »
    Yes really. A cyclist pays tax, every time they earn money, every time they spend money (including spending on their bike). They pay tax. Tax pays for the road, and the cycle lane.
    This has nothing to do with my original post where I stated how a motorist must pay a tax specifically to use the road. A cyclist doesn't.
    RainyDay wrote: »
    You correctly point out that a driver has to pass a test and hold a licence. And if you look around you for five minutes, you'll see that this doesn't do much for the standard of driving on our roads, given the extent of law-breaking by drivers. Not to mention the 200+ deaths each year and maiming of thousands of others - by drivers (not cyclists).
    I actually see more cyclists breaking traffic laws than motorists, especially in urban areas. Anyway... I know these are UK figures, but I'd love to see the breakdown of who's at fault: http://www.rospa.com/road-safety/advice/pedal-cyclists/facts-figures/


  • #641
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,780 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Brilliant, so we get rebates on our motor tax every time we cycle?

    I think we should follow the French example - pay people to cycle to work. We're all Europeans, n'est pa?

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/02/us-france-bicycles-idUSKBN0ED1O120140602


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  • #642
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    CramCycle wrote: »
    So no is the answer, thanks, glad you could clear that up.

    Sorry if it's not clear enough for your addled mind, the answer is actually YES, you can get a rebate but NO you can't get it for just cycling


  • #643
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    I think we should follow the French example - pay people to cycle to work. We're all Europeans, n'est pa?

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/02/us-france-bicycles-idUSKBN0ED1O120140602

    We kind of did pay people to cycle to work through the cycle to work scheme. Unfortunately most who avail of the scheme don't cycle to work.


  • #644
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Ah, so as motor tax paying cyclists we do fully contribute then. Again that's brilliant.

    OMG NO you don't, you have contributed for the use of the motor vehicle, you have not SPECIFICALLY contributed as a cyclist, you do not need to have a motor vehicle to use the cyclelanes therefore you have NOT paid anything as a cyclist for the provision of cycling infrastructure


  • #645
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    I think we should follow the French example - pay people to cycle to work. We're all Europeans, n'est pa?

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/02/us-france-bicycles-idUSKBN0ED1O120140602

    Oui.


  • #646
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,780 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    OMG NO you don't, you have contributed for the use of the motor vehicle, you have not SPECIFICALLY contributed as a cyclist, you do not need to have a motor vehicle to use the cyclelanes therefore you have NOT paid anything as a cyclist for the provision of cycling infrastructure

    yes we have.


  • #647
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    smash wrote: »
    This has nothing to do with my original post where I stated how a motorist must pay a tax specifically to use the road. A cyclist doesn't.
    Except that it has everything to do with your original post, which takes a selectively narrow view of reality to suit a narrow argument. By looking at the big picture, it shows that your selective view was wrong.
    smash wrote: »
    I actually see more cyclists breaking traffic laws than motorists, especially in urban areas.

    If you see more cyclists breaking traffic laws that motorists, you are either a very unobservant road user, or you are suffering from confirmation bias.

    How many times did you break the speed limit the last time you drove?
    smash wrote: »
    Anyway... I know these are UK figures, but I'd love to see the breakdown of who's at fault: http://www.rospa.com/road-safety/advice/pedal-cyclists/facts-figures/

    Sure - I'm happy to help clarify who's at fault;

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-22408573
    http://btawa.org.au/2015/02/03/are-cyclists-at-fault-in-traffic-crashes-no/


  • #648
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    OMG NO you don't, you have contributed for the use of the motor vehicle, you have not SPECIFICALLY contributed as a cyclist, you do not need to have a motor vehicle to use the cyclelanes therefore you have NOT paid anything as a cyclist for the provision of cycling infrastructure

    You're getting yourself into fluster, weren't you talking about road infrastructure up until this senior moment of yours?

    I might go for a swim later, but hang on, I don't own a boat so presumably haven't contributed to the canal or coastal infrastructure. Am I allowed to now?


  • #649
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    smash wrote: »
    We kind of did pay people to cycle to work through the cycle to work scheme. Unfortunately most who avail of the scheme don't cycle to work.

    Ah be fair, some of them do, a lot of them don't but that's the exchequers fault for not following up on them, sort of like people taxing taxis and commercials at a reduced rate and not actually using them as taxis and commercials, should be more enforced by the authorities for all cases


  • #650
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    OMG NO you don't, you have contributed for the use of the motor vehicle, you have not SPECIFICALLY contributed as a cyclist, you do not need to have a motor vehicle to use the cyclelanes therefore you have NOT paid anything as a cyclist for the provision of cycling infrastructure

    Which bit of reality are you struggling to understand. I'm a cyclist. I've paid motor tax. So I've paid for the provision of roads.

    Them's the facts,, brother, even if they don't suit your selective view of the world.


  • #651
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    You're getting yourself into fluster, weren't you talking about road infrastructure up until this senior moment of yours?

    No and you know I haven't, unless there's a typo in there somewhere


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  • #652
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    No and you know I haven't, unless there's a typo in there somewhere

    We were discussing motor tax, and motor tax, according to you, is the sole funding vehicle for........?


  • #653
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    RainyDay wrote: »
    Except that it has everything to do with your original post, which takes a selectively narrow view of reality to suit a narrow argument. By looking at the big picture, it shows that your selective view was wrong.
    It does not. You're 100% wrong here. Just because you pay income tax it does not in any way mean that you pay to use a road for cycling. Or just because you have paid motor tax on your car it does not in any way mean that you pay to use a road for cycling. By your logic we shouldn't pay motor tax because we pay tax on everything else. Or that if we pay motor tax one 1 vehicle then it should cover all vehicles that you own.
    RainyDay wrote: »
    If you see more cyclists breaking traffic laws that motorists, you are either a very unobservant road user, or you are suffering from confirmation bias.
    It's very easy to sit at lights and watch cyclists fly through them, or to watch and avoid them weave out on a road without indicating.
    RainyDay wrote: »
    How many times did you break the speed limit the last time you drove?
    If you want to go down the low hanging fruit route then go to the quays in Dublin where there's a 30kmph speed limit and you'll clock a lot of cyclists breaking it.


  • #654
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    We were discussing motor tax, and motor tax, according to you, is the sole funding vehicle for........?


    LGF


  • #655
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    RainyDay wrote: »
    Which bit of reality are you struggling to understand. I'm a cyclist. I've paid motor tax. So I've paid for the provision of roads.

    Them's the facts,, brother, even if they don't suit your selective view of the world.

    Paying for the provision of roads is not the same as paying to use the roads. Motorists pay for that privilege, cyclists don't.


  • #656
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    RainyDay wrote: »
    Which bit of reality are you struggling to understand. I'm a cyclist. I've paid motor tax. So I've paid for the provision of roads.

    Them's the facts,, brother, even if they don't suit your selective view of the world.


    Again NO, you've contributed towards roads as a road user and paying motortax etc., you've not contributed to cycle lanes as a cyclist


  • #657
    mathie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭mathie


    smash wrote: »
    If you want to go down the low hanging fruit route then go to the quays in Dublin where there's a 30kmph speed limit and you'll clock a lot of cyclists breaking it.

    Speed limits don't apply to bikes.


  • #658
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    mathie wrote: »
    Speed limits don't apply to bikes.

    They probably will when they pedestrianise College Green, change in local byelaws will make it legal and a simple doppler detector to enforce it with a cyclewarden dishing out tickets


  • #659
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    smash wrote: »
    Paying for the provision of roads is not the same as paying to use the roads. Motorists pay for that privilege, cyclists don't.

    Actually motorists get a license for that privilege, mainly due to the increased risk that is there from operating a motorised risk, hence different tests for different vehicles.

    Cyclists do not need a license as it has been shown that the risk is so low as to not warrant it.

    It is a privilege, don't ever forget that but not one paid for, one that is earned.


  • #660
    Knasher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭Knasher


    smash wrote: »
    Paying for the provision of roads is not the same as paying to use the roads. Motorists pay for that privilege, cyclists don't.

    Seriously how many times are we going to go around on this point?

    You think that cyclists should have to pay to use the roads. Fine, you're entitled to your opinion. The government clearly want to encourage the use of bicycles, and no matter how many times you, or somebody else, restate your opinion is isn't going to change that. And clearly they aren't going to bring in charges that would, undeniably (and I suspect purposefully), discourage cycling, at least without good reason.

    I'd imagine the reasons that the government want to encourage cycling is because it has positive health benefits and reduces congestion. If you feel these reasons are wrong, then feel free to cite studies that prove they're wrong. If the only argument to be had in this thread is the restating, over and over, of this single opinion. Then can we all just agree to disagree and let this thread die? Because so far all I can see is pointless circles.


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  • #661
    mathie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭mathie


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    They probably will when they pedestrianise College Green, change in local byelaws will make it legal and a simple doppler detector to enforce it with a cyclewarden dishing out tickets

    Seems legit. It's a policy that has served many other countries well. Oh wait.


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