Cyclists should do a theory test!

Spook_ie wrote: »

No you're not, you're cycling, therefore you are not contributing any more to the tax take, you may well have contributed some to the tax take when you were driving last weekend or something but as soon as you put the car on the drive you become ( effectively ) a leech, sucking on your previous contributions to the tax take.

You're all starting to sound like those FM late night callers now, " I had a job for 6 months and paid my taxes, now I can stay on the dole for life " ones

You mean I can get a refund on my motor tax that I paid for the days I don't use it, oh wait, no.

By cycling I will reduce the cost to the HSE over time through reduced physical and mental illneses. So a positive for the economy.

I have become more productive at work, therefore improving my employers cost return for hiring me, improving our ability to do business and increasing my wages over time which leads to me spending more, increasing my contribution to the tax base in multiple ways. So a positive to the economy.

If I did not cycle I would walk. If I drove I would increase traffic volumes, reducing the economy slightly, decrease my health, costing the economy more. My cycling does not slow other road users down, no special changes to my route have had to be made because I am a cyclists. So still, apositive for the economy.

I am not sure what knowledge you have of how the economy works but its sounds shockingly ill informed. Would you like me to provide you with links to studies and investigations of how cycling has contributed to economies in Europe and America over the past few years, I think you will find that I am far from a leech.

smash wrote: »

Not really. A cyclist doesn't pay anything for the use of a road. A motorist HAS to pay motor tax for the use of a road. Not to mention they Have to have a license and their vehicle MUST pass a road safety test.

You might need to visit a pharmacy for some aspirin talking to cyclists!
It must be time to introduce mandatory helmets for cyclists, the only reason I can think for them NOT understanding plain English is that they've had a fall and become brain damaged in some way

RainyDay

smash wrote: »

Not really. A cyclist doesn't pay anything for the use of a road. A motorist HAS to pay motor tax for the use of a road. Not to mention they Have to have a license and their vehicle MUST pass a road safety test.

Yes really. A cyclist pays tax, every time they earn money, every time they spend money (including spending on their bike). They pay tax. Tax pays for the road, and the cycle lane.

You correctly point out that a driver has to pass a test and hold a licence. And if you look around you for five minutes, you'll see that this doesn't do much for the standard of driving on our roads, given the extent of law-breaking by drivers. Not to mention the 200+ deaths each year and maiming of thousands of others - by drivers (not cyclists).

Spook_ie wrote: »

No you're not, you're cycling, therefore you are not contributing any more to the tax take, you may well have contributed some to the tax take when you were driving last weekend or something but as soon as you put the car on the drive you become ( effectively ) a leech, sucking on your previous contributions to the tax take.

You're all starting to sound like those FM late night callers now, " I had a job for 6 months and paid my taxes, now I can stay on the dole for life " ones

Brilliant, so we get rebates on our motor tax every time we cycle?

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/348943/vfm-assessment-of-cycling-grants.pdf

http://www.ecf.com/wp-content/uploads/ECF_Economic-benefits-of-cycling-in-EU-27.pdf

ThisRegard wrote: »

Brilliant, so we get rebates on our motor tax every time we cycle?

No, but you can get a rebate if you have more than 3 months left to run and fill in a SORN

Spook_ie wrote: »

No, but you can get a rebate if you have more than 3 months left to run and fill in a SORN

So no is the answer, thanks, glad you could clear that up.

Spook_ie wrote: »

No, but you can get a rebate if you have more than 3 months left to run and fill in a SORN

Ah, so as motor tax paying cyclists we do fully contribute then. Again that's brilliant.

And people roll their eyes when taxi drivers say they can solve all the countrys woes during a short cross city trip.

CramCycle wrote: »

You mean I can get a refund on my motor tax that I paid for the days I don't use it, oh wait, no.

You can get a refund for periods of 3 months at a time. Or you used to be able to anyway.

RainyDay wrote: »

Yes really. A cyclist pays tax, every time they earn money, every time they spend money (including spending on their bike). They pay tax. Tax pays for the road, and the cycle lane.

This has nothing to do with my original post where I stated how a motorist must pay a tax specifically to use the road. A cyclist doesn't.

RainyDay wrote: »

You correctly point out that a driver has to pass a test and hold a licence. And if you look around you for five minutes, you'll see that this doesn't do much for the standard of driving on our roads, given the extent of law-breaking by drivers. Not to mention the 200+ deaths each year and maiming of thousands of others - by drivers (not cyclists).

I actually see more cyclists breaking traffic laws than motorists, especially in urban areas. Anyway... I know these are UK figures, but I'd love to see the breakdown of who's at fault: http://www.rospa.com/road-safety/advice/pedal-cyclists/facts-figures/

Pinch Flat

ThisRegard wrote: »

Brilliant, so we get rebates on our motor tax every time we cycle?

I think we should follow the French example - pay people to cycle to work. We're all Europeans, n'est pa?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/02/us-france-bicycles-idUSKBN0ED1O120140602

CramCycle wrote: »

So no is the answer, thanks, glad you could clear that up.

Sorry if it's not clear enough for your addled mind, the answer is actually YES, you can get a rebate but NO you can't get it for just cycling

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I think we should follow the French example - pay people to cycle to work. We're all Europeans, n'est pa?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/02/us-france-bicycles-idUSKBN0ED1O120140602

We kind of did pay people to cycle to work through the cycle to work scheme. Unfortunately most who avail of the scheme don't cycle to work.

ThisRegard wrote: »

Ah, so as motor tax paying cyclists we do fully contribute then. Again that's brilliant.

OMG NO you don't, you have contributed for the use of the motor vehicle, you have not SPECIFICALLY contributed as a cyclist, you do not need to have a motor vehicle to use the cyclelanes therefore you have NOT paid anything as a cyclist for the provision of cycling infrastructure

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I think we should follow the French example - pay people to cycle to work. We're all Europeans, n'est pa?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/02/us-france-bicycles-idUSKBN0ED1O120140602

Oui.

Pinch Flat

Spook_ie wrote: »

OMG NO you don't, you have contributed for the use of the motor vehicle, you have not SPECIFICALLY contributed as a cyclist, you do not need to have a motor vehicle to use the cyclelanes therefore you have NOT paid anything as a cyclist for the provision of cycling infrastructure

yes we have.

RainyDay

smash wrote: »

This has nothing to do with my original post where I stated how a motorist must pay a tax specifically to use the road. A cyclist doesn't.

Except that it has everything to do with your original post, which takes a selectively narrow view of reality to suit a narrow argument. By looking at the big picture, it shows that your selective view was wrong.

smash wrote: »

I actually see more cyclists breaking traffic laws than motorists, especially in urban areas.

If you see more cyclists breaking traffic laws that motorists, you are either a very unobservant road user, or you are suffering from confirmation bias.

How many times did you break the speed limit the last time you drove?

smash wrote: »

Anyway... I know these are UK figures, but I'd love to see the breakdown of who's at fault: http://www.rospa.com/road-safety/advice/pedal-cyclists/facts-figures/

Sure - I'm happy to help clarify who's at fault;

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-22408573
http://btawa.org.au/2015/02/03/are-cyclists-at-fault-in-traffic-crashes-no/

Spook_ie wrote: »

OMG NO you don't, you have contributed for the use of the motor vehicle, you have not SPECIFICALLY contributed as a cyclist, you do not need to have a motor vehicle to use the cyclelanes therefore you have NOT paid anything as a cyclist for the provision of cycling infrastructure

You're getting yourself into fluster, weren't you talking about road infrastructure up until this senior moment of yours?

I might go for a swim later, but hang on, I don't own a boat so presumably haven't contributed to the canal or coastal infrastructure. Am I allowed to now?

smash wrote: »

We kind of did pay people to cycle to work through the cycle to work scheme. Unfortunately most who avail of the scheme don't cycle to work.

Ah be fair, some of them do, a lot of them don't but that's the exchequers fault for not following up on them, sort of like people taxing taxis and commercials at a reduced rate and not actually using them as taxis and commercials, should be more enforced by the authorities for all cases

RainyDay

Spook_ie wrote: »

OMG NO you don't, you have contributed for the use of the motor vehicle, you have not SPECIFICALLY contributed as a cyclist, you do not need to have a motor vehicle to use the cyclelanes therefore you have NOT paid anything as a cyclist for the provision of cycling infrastructure

Which bit of reality are you struggling to understand. I'm a cyclist. I've paid motor tax. So I've paid for the provision of roads.

Them's the facts,, brother, even if they don't suit your selective view of the world.

ThisRegard wrote: »

You're getting yourself into fluster, weren't you talking about road infrastructure up until this senior moment of yours?

No and you know I haven't, unless there's a typo in there somewhere

Spook_ie wrote: »

No and you know I haven't, unless there's a typo in there somewhere

We were discussing motor tax, and motor tax, according to you, is the sole funding vehicle for........?

RainyDay wrote: »

Except that it has everything to do with your original post, which takes a selectively narrow view of reality to suit a narrow argument. By looking at the big picture, it shows that your selective view was wrong.

It does not. You're 100% wrong here. Just because you pay income tax it does not in any way mean that you pay to use a road for cycling. Or just because you have paid motor tax on your car it does not in any way mean that you pay to use a road for cycling. By your logic we shouldn't pay motor tax because we pay tax on everything else. Or that if we pay motor tax one 1 vehicle then it should cover all vehicles that you own.

RainyDay wrote: »

If you see more cyclists breaking traffic laws that motorists, you are either a very unobservant road user, or you are suffering from confirmation bias.

It's very easy to sit at lights and watch cyclists fly through them, or to watch and avoid them weave out on a road without indicating.

RainyDay wrote: »

How many times did you break the speed limit the last time you drove?

If you want to go down the low hanging fruit route then go to the quays in Dublin where there's a 30kmph speed limit and you'll clock a lot of cyclists breaking it.

ThisRegard wrote: »

We were discussing motor tax, and motor tax, according to you, is the sole funding vehicle for........?

LGF

RainyDay wrote: »

Which bit of reality are you struggling to understand. I'm a cyclist. I've paid motor tax. So I've paid for the provision of roads.

Them's the facts,, brother, even if they don't suit your selective view of the world.

Paying for the provision of roads is not the same as paying to use the roads. Motorists pay for that privilege, cyclists don't.

RainyDay wrote: »

Which bit of reality are you struggling to understand. I'm a cyclist. I've paid motor tax. So I've paid for the provision of roads.

Them's the facts,, brother, even if they don't suit your selective view of the world.

Again NO, you've contributed towards roads as a road user and paying motortax etc., you've not contributed to cycle lanes as a cyclist

mathie

smash wrote: »

If you want to go down the low hanging fruit route then go to the quays in Dublin where there's a 30kmph speed limit and you'll clock a lot of cyclists breaking it.

Speed limits don't apply to bikes.

mathie wrote: »

Speed limits don't apply to bikes.

They probably will when they pedestrianise College Green, change in local byelaws will make it legal and a simple doppler detector to enforce it with a cyclewarden dishing out tickets