Cork GAA Discussion Thread

Luke must be absolutely flying in training, which is a good sign. Or that Paudie isn't, which is a bad sign... I'm a glass half full kind of person, so looking forward to sunday. Just hoping for a good performance considering we are so depleted, win or lose.

lim4ev wrote: »

TTM,If all available what would your best 15 be?

Nash
O Neill
Joyce
Mcdonnell
Ellis
Lorcan
Murphy
Walsh
Kearney
Lehane
Cooper
Harnedy
Horgan
Cadogan
O shea


Playing a sweeper possession game
Cooper helping midfield and o shea dropping deep also for breaking ball
Kearney sweeping deep also with Mcdonnell free man in full back line if needs be

Crucially id have a panel strength and nothing against them but Mccarthy lawton sullivan kearney would not be there
I'd never allows sullivan leave in wouldn't brought in poor defenders ahead him made him feel he would left
I'd have Mccarthy keeper
Burke
Sullivan
Cahalane
John cronin
Colm Barry
Jamie nagle
Coughlan
Farell
Paudie
Anthony Spillane
Cronin


Unless he's left or injured Spillane should been on bench as doesn't make sense in jbm said he rates him highly but if so you don't have lawton moylan or Mccarthy ahead him that got chance after chance after chance now to be fair

I'd also have a scone cup tea with horgan and chat and whatever else he wants I'd pay for it
But I'd tell him afterward that the only and last free pass he gets off me and I'd apply that to others where applicable


I'd tell him the values cork jersey hold and he's outstanding talent but he has one just once chance and don't mind misses few scores but if he fails to work hard in any game or show desire want win dirty ball and try fancy dan stuff he would be dropped and when regain place he's gone from free taking for the year
I'd tell him he's attiude work ethic simply unacceptable and while every hurler entitled bad day I'd back him to a hilt those days but no excuse simply none lack work ethic
Id also make it clear he's club performance are hugely correlated to inter county and this lark scoreless few games glen last year won't wash with me in if form dips he's dropped and Spillane would be starting or luke or Paudie and while not talented horgan if they work harder it's bonus
Id stop this we cant judge him in let's be honest now he's eight years and an all star cork deserves be judged field play

Lehane is with Nash well able to take them

None this soft minded approach and when you look at cody ruthless streak player history dropping players like carter Walsh Joyce all lads huge reputation based on form cork need to actually wake up and get real now we're not ruthless enough field play


Course horgan dropped would create an outcry but so what in anyone asked why he's dropped I'd say on performance he's dropped
That simple
Horgan could be match winner Sunday but he needs to be consistent otherwise no good in imo he's far from undroppable

I would also watch jack sheehan playing club hurling scene and I'd play freestyle and poession game when it is needed

Asked what style cork play I'd say well it depends on opponents


I'd also do cody mantra in few select lads allowed talk to the media
Nothing against media as there hugely important but horgan doing interview and others when performance not up it imo not good and imo these lads think better than they are


Nash Joyce harnedy kearney lehane only ones allows do interview
That's plenty be fair for the media
I would also shake up the management set up and brilliant brilliant player won us all Ireland in 99 three points but I wouldn't have mcgrath as a selector as he had he's time but I just fail to see and said this before what he brings to cork
Yes he's good media duties but I'd shake up the whole system
I just don't see ruthless execution Seanie in i get the sense its ah bad luck bounce ball were getting there type talk

danganabu wrote: »

Its not as if it is exactly an isolated incident. JBM is surviving off his reputation and hero status in Cork, this tenure has been a shambles and if any other manager was in place he would be under serious pressure.

Massive fan of JBM btw a genius of a player and a gentleman to boot, but sadly he looks way out of his depth in modern day management.

Agree totally tactical side he's hugely questions able but to say he's terunure been shambles well let's keep it real


Cork were not top four team before he joined but have been the last three years and in he's ist year and they also got all Ireland final
He's brought credits and credibility back to cork bring competitive with no under age talent winning teams

He's improved and brought in kearney lehane harnedy Ellis cooper cadogan etc and be fair players totally belive him
He failed in not having tactical selector and landers may be it but we're still waiting to see


To say it's utter shambles is wrong


Look at where we came from under Walsh to where we are now
Not good enough to be just top four for cork but much better than we were but he's made huge improvement be fair


What's a shambles is cuthbert in he unlike jbm has successful under twenty one teams and huge depth defenders yet plays half backs corner back a manager that has failed yes utterly failed to win any big game for cork and one since minor manager can't effectively produce defence in teams and who goes about criticism horan and referees and blaming players fans and everybody but himself and yet after dismal league that had numerous false dawns after Dublin defeat he still claims it's a success and challenge v Dublin where we conceded again close nineteenth points in wet day he says defence was good despite a Dublin b team tearing the defence apart any time they pleased

We had another challenge recently and by all accounts same old problems I'm told
Cuthbert took over a top four cork team unlike jbm had around eight senior all Ireland winners and lot youth and are now struggling be top six team so be fair it's easy why he gets critsed as also he never had successful record football and none selectors won anything club level where jbm won minor and senior all Ireland and crowley was selector in all Ireland win also

So you want shambles definition management look at cork football
Hurling certainly under jbm has not been a shambles when improvements have been made but yes tactical wise proven be poor and not he can't apply them it's just he's stubborn old traditional ways cork hurling

danganabu wrote: »

I have no interest in Cork football and have no idea why you have brought Cuthbert into a discussion on Cork Hurling, you'll be blaming TJ Ryan next!

Jimmy Barry was in charge in 2012, a terrible year - lost to 14 men at home and after two facile victories against weak opposition were soundly beaten by Galway. 2013 was a very strange year and as results have since shown the quality of the two AI finalists is very questionable, I also never though I would hear a Cork man say that a year where Cork were beaten by both Limerick and Clare was a success, the tactical naievity against Clare was also exposed. And 2014 Tipp showed them/him up badly again the in the AI semi, I doubt any other previous Cork manager would have survived taking a beating like that against their biggest rivals??

Fair enough to say it has been an utter shambles was harsh, but even his most loyal of fans have to admit it is quickly descending into that??

Tj Ryan has nothing to do with this why are you bringing him in to it
My point as you agreed was you were harsh in saying it was under jbm an utter shambles and did you or did you not specifically say other cork managers wouldn't get leeway jbm does?
You didn't specify it was hurling only in the concept so to answer your question as cuthbert is prime example in here and now of getting critsom from fans to show imo theres valid reasons why jbm get some leeway and others don't

If you want to specify previous hurling manager name him and I'll debate that with you
If you take Denis Walsh for example it's clear he'd two years cork and one false dawn v tipp cork were a shambles so jbm while huge doubts tactical wise certainly better than most as we're top four last three years and while that's nothing for county cork does show it's better most managers in cork as cunningham would never got the job but should have
I said last year after tipp and even start last year as long term cork lads know too well cork jbm had play sweeper
I actually said this before most and always critsed him for that


There injury depleted for Sunday so not much he could do now and league is not relevant in cork never knew play waterford when beat Dublin in the ist game but once waterford were there cork had no interest
Surely Longford offaly proves league championsip had no bearing when offaly hammered Longford as Longford no interest yet Longford won three weeks later

One other aspect in cork hurling is there's no stand out candidate available for the job where in football there's six better than cuthbert and not being smart but if they didn't want it I'm sure even one or two here posting wise would actually make a better job managing football team

danganabu wrote: »

Really if you haven't the manners to actually check your posts and correct them before posting I'm not going to spend all day trying to figure out what the hell you are trying to say.

Reading your posts is akin to reading the Quran, only there is probably more sense in the Quran!

You always know when a lad struggles to add value to he's argument when there's no mention of grammar at the start but then when he can't debate points he goes down this road
I respect your opinion totally but unfortunately I disagree

Mountainlad wrote: »

Comparing Cork hurling to Longford football is pretty embarrassing to be honest. I'm not surprised nobody gives a toss about Division 3 of the football.

Ask Kilkenny if they think Division 1 of the league means the same as Division 3 in the football.

you again take the point out of context
Show me where I said cork are like Longford


I said Longford beating offaly after offaly winning league shows no matter who there playing the concept championship and league is irrelevant in those games three weeks apart
Your insult to division three football is wrong also when teams no chance all Ireland contenders want do well in division as Longford done by getting promotion but yes no interest in the final
I'm sure waterford football would love division three and certainly wouldn't look down on disdain at it


Compared to munster finals that you blow up as the holy grail how do explain since 05 waterford twice and tipp and cork twice and limerick winning it but not making an all Ireland final?
What are your thoughts on that logic please
I apologise for asking this again but as you know I asked you this numerous times before but haven't got an answer and maybe I am missing something with munster finals so I'd like to be told what

Waterford like cork suffered from winning munster in they didn't get to all Ireland final and eight years ago is prime example when total underdogs limerick defeated waterford easily and thankfully Davy Fitzgerald saved the day and got waterford to the final the following year and Waterford didn't win munster so it proves munster no real value imo

Talk has it shanahan may start for Waterford

danganabu wrote: »

See now was that so hard to do in english! And its a bit more than grammar!

There was no mention of grammar at the start because I posted about JBM, not to you directly btw, you may think you are the most important person in Cork GAA but fortunately that is not the case! Since then you have rambled on about Cuthbert, Longford/Offaly and a whole other range of off topic nonesense, and in a manner that I genuinely wasn't sure if english was your first language.

The quoted post above shows that you are indeed capable of structuring and formatting a legible sentence, so as I said the long winded incoherent ramblings are at the very least bad manners.

Now I'm new here so I'm not going to get into a personal arguement with you and get myself banned before I start, so congrats you ar the first to make my ignore list!

again no need for the off topic personal slights
Plenty to debate here without going in to that stuff
Cuthbert was mentioned as you asked why jbm gets immunity to other cork managers
You as anyone can see didn't specify hurling
I answered your question, fair enough you may not like the answer but I answered it to be fair
Offaly Longford huge relevance in they played like cork and Waterford league and championship to such close proximity
I respect your opinion totally to put me on the ignore list that's certainly your own choice so fair enough

Mountainlad wrote: »

I'm laughing here.

I see no correlation with that to the points of debate nor do I see this advocating engagement debate on points we were talking about so I don't really no how I can reply to this

Nick's v clon
Aghada v Clyda in round three football
Clon and Clyda to win
Clyda had two tough games and done as good as they could and had a load out they will beat aghada
Let's hope john looney doesn't get injured as he's huge huge player for the cork minors hurling now

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

In Egan case over last year with the difference of view and sullivan this year he's at fault for those not joining up
Pa callaghan he can't be blamed he done all he could
Patrick o mahonry fine player but as under twenty one proved and for midelton not a full back but a corner and cork have abundance corner backs so no excuse in jbm case

Cadogan hurling was hyped up by some media yet never played league much last year yet expect him play v tipp when tipp destroyed him three years before and bar debut full back one off man match display never constantly proved up to intercounty so he's not a loss to the hurling
Joyce and lorcan are not jbm fault or Spillane but Barry and nagle and cronin are certain imo jbm can't blame anyone else not picking these guys as despite for club and college and various cork teams he constantly never gives them a chance while others get nine lives and this talk some have that cork picking best available on panel is certainly not through
And lack panel depth will be exposed sunday by waterford and Waterford are no great team just solid with a copy cat of a sytem that once they get to business end of championship will be exposed
I never felt as despondent in two years since clare in munster leading up to a game and like them injury crippled us
Cork managed to win then but we had a fit harnedy who I see waterford trying claim on their thread as one theirs
Yes he's connection to there but certainly for all cork problems he made imo the right call in playing for cork and he's mother from and won all Irelands with cork so no surprise played for cork

Most cork people I talk to expect due to injury cork to loose so huge huge absolutely huge pressure on waterford to win as if they loose the questions that were asked in January will come back and I dont buy this talk there in bonus territory in they can ill afford have a poor championship as if they do then the form league won't be taken in true context especially when you see much better teams like clare and kk in relegation battle yet clsre or kk imo fully fit teams beat waterford even with o mahony

Huge Pressure on Waterford? You must be having a laugh!
Win loose or draw there is no pressure on Waterford for this game. League title in the back pocket.

Cork are the more mature team and are expected to win.
Waterford will go in as underdogs and have a rattle.

Injury wise Waterford are more affected, with Mahonys frees.
Cadogan and Harnedy are starting by all accounts.

Some change from your opinion after saying you were 100% confident you would beat Waterford in June

HillFarmer wrote: »

Huge Pressure on Waterford? You must be having a laugh!
Win loose or draw there is no pressure on Waterford for this game. League title in the back pocket.

Cork are the more mature team and are expected to win.
Waterford will go in as underdogs and have a rattle.

Injury wise Waterford are more affected, with Mahonys frees.
Cadogan and Harnedy are starting by all accounts.

Some change from your opinion after saying you were 100% confident you would beat Waterford in June

Absolutely one hundred per cent correct what I said in January has changed to June as like in January it's winter now we're summer that could be predictable but nobody could predicted not even me cork huge injury to three players certain you start just waterford one starter
I was in Waterford last week and talk down there is waterford to win and even on yere thread yere seeing yere selves to win
Ye will too
Nobody will remember the league if ye loose Sunday just like league was forgotten imo eight years ago after a poor championship so there huge huge pressure on waterford sunday as they loose league won't mean mcgrath management wont be questioned etc
League title means absolutely nothing when you don't beat KK or play top division
If you think league title gives waterford immunity then shows the level of challenge waterford have win all Ireland as it means ye settled for smaller prizes
Ye simply have to win Sunday

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/jimmy-barry-murphy-cork-rebels-must-rise-to-occasion-334749.html

As has already been said a very honest and open interview from jimmy. I found it humorous that he describes his own team in the very same terms as some of us were saying this week. If we're not playing to 100% we can be a very very average side is what he said.
I'd be concerned that he does seem genuinely, I'm not sure subdued is the right word but certainly the league final seemed to be a chastening to the team and himself. He acknowledges they got it wrong tactically and from what I take from it is that he's demanding a performance from the team and it's time to put up or shut up.

One thing I absolutely do not take from it is that cork were not interested in the league. There's an abundance of reasons why this is a myth. You need only look at the reaction of the team to beating Dublin and as jimmy says the reaction in training afterwards. This was a team that set out to win yet another national final and didn't perform and lost to a better team. If cork win by 10 points on Sunday it is NOT proof that cork were shadow boxing in the league final. Waterford 100% the better team. No question. Very simple very straightforward, just like the man himself.

The very thought that jimmy was on the sideline grinning at Waterford showing their hand for the championship and basically leaving silverware go in year 4 of his tenure is nonsense, complete and utter and quite frankly it does the man a disservice.

To the match on Sunday as to who is favourites or not well as this is Munster championship number 1 does it matter and number 2 who cares?
Waterford are carrying form cork aren't. Personally I don't think there's a lot between the teams when fully fit. All this talk of this great rivalry back in the noughties needs to be parked it will have no bearing on Sunday. They were great days with 2 wonderful hugely different teams when hurling itself was probably different.

As to who's under more pressure going into this. For me it's cork, no doubt. Huge questions hang over players and management. They're a team that can no longer be called young mentored by a group that should know them inside out. It's year 4 where progress has to be shown. I still think they ask more questions than answer positionally and personnel wise, injuries aside (of which there are many in both camps).
Waterford come into this in bonus territory. A very young team unburdened mostly by past shortcomings that had zero expectations on them from the start of the year. In fact, from knowing a good number of Waterford friends, I would follow the Waterford championship closely and know a few of the players their aim was promotion from 1b and that was about it. They'll come into Sunday with no fear and still no great weight of expectation from a very demanding Waterford hurling crowd.

One final word to some Waterford posters in this thread. Firstly the very best of luck Sunday but please for the love of Christ stop with the poor mouth. I know we can all be guilty of it but when I hear talk of populations and cork should be beating Waterford all the time well how come any county can even compete with Dublin?
And regards some of what's been said against Jimmy. Give it a rest. In 2012 we were in the doldrums, the pits. He mightn't yet make us all
Ireland champions but he brought some of the pride and belief and found and developed unknown talent and for that we will be forever grateful. You think Derek McGrath is now better than slice pan, he may very well be yet and kudos for what he's done but from what I understand the knives were very much out for the bold Derek pre season and only for paddy joe Ryan sitting him down and saying improve or be gone then things may have been very different.
Roll on Sunday:)