Ukraine: As it happens.

The_Valeyard · 28-05-2015 12:03PM

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Dont worry lads it's just more propaganda from the Western media. We only need to be worried if the respectable bias-free RT reports the story.

Ah, RT, the FoxNews of Russia.

Gatling · 28-05-2015 01:17PM

IrishTrajan wrote: »

You'll just hear reports from the Russian media telling you that NATO is bombing heavily-populated civilian roads.

Absolutely.

Go after the world cup as well I'm sure vlad will have an excuse

darkpagandeath · 28-05-2015 01:23PM

Gatling wrote: »

Absolutely.

Go after the world cup as well I'm sure vlad will have an excuse

Yah the Ukraine took it away. :pac:

Gatling · 28-05-2015 02:12PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yah the Ukraine took it away. :pac:

Imagine they gave it to Ukraine

The_Valeyard · 28-05-2015 03:36PM

Gatling wrote: »

Imagine they gave it to Ukraine

Then Russia would invade and say the world cup is in Russia, once again.

Gatling · 28-05-2015 03:44PM

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Then Russia would invade and say the world cup is in Russia, once again.

That actually could happen

Elmer Blooker · 28-05-2015 06:38PM

Gatling wrote: »

Imagine they gave it to Ukraine

The 2018 World Cup will be in England.
You don't seriously believe the US wants to stamp out corruption anywhere in the world?

Big business and corruption- you can't have one without the other. Cameron today called for Blatter to resign, its gone political now as I expected.

gandalf · 28-05-2015 08:30PM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The 2018 World Cup will be in England.
You don't seriously believe the US wants to stamp out corruption anywhere in the world? Big business and corruption- you can't have one without the other. Cameron today called for Blatter to resign, its gone political now as I expected.

Jaysus defending Putin is one thing Elmer but I seriously hope you aren't lowering yourself to the bottom of the barrel by defending Blatter :P

InTheTrees · 28-05-2015 09:32PM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Cameron today called for Blatter to resign, its gone political now as I expected.

The American FBI, and the Internal Revenue Service cooperate with the Swiss police to make arrests in Switzerland and yet you think it only went "political" when cameron commented?

Sometimes politics isnt a negative.

gandalf · 29-05-2015 09:32AM

Looks like Belarus are in line for some Novofuhrer style Russo-Ukrainian love!!

The speed with which the Kremlin has become hostile towards its neighbour Ukraine has left many in Belarus fearful of Russian aggression, or even an incursion across their own border.

Throughout his 21-year rule president Alexander Lukashenko has traditionally held close political, economic and military ties with Russia. However he’s also maintained that although the two countries “are like brothers”, Belarus is a separate and autonomous state.

Clearly unsettled by the recent war between Russian-backed separatists and national army forces in eastern Ukraine, Lukashenko has now stepped up a campaign to strengthen his country’s ties to Europe, sending envoys to European capitals and welcoming embassies from the EU and US.

He has also been cautious to address the subject of Russian influence: in April, the president raised concerns about the rise of pro-Russian NGOs in Belarus. He suggested that extremist Russian groups were active in his country and claimed he had “taken measures against them”.

.......

Fears have also been heightened by a number of articles in the Russian media.

The online newspaper Sputnik i Pogrom recently ran an opinion piece claiming that three of Belarus’s six regions were in fact “received as a gift from Soviet Russia” – a notion that was popularised about Crimea too before its annexation. Leaked text message correspondence between a Russian high official has suggested that the website may have been under the Kremlin’s protection.

A columnist for Russia’s Vzglyad website has also stoked the fire by arguing that Lukashenko should hold a referendum on Belarus’s accession into the Russian Federation this autumn, otherwise “[the country] in its current form would be eliminated”.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/28/belarus-russia-brotherly-love-ukraine-crisis

Grayson · 29-05-2015 11:16AM

Egginacup wrote: »

If Kosovars were so in danger of their lives from the blood-thirsty Serbs that NATO had to tear the country away and put it under a Western military mandate, then what is your problem with Russia providing a vote for protection from a junta in Kiev that has already murdered 1000's in Russian ethnic areas of Ukraine.

Surely if the usurpation of Kosovo was to protect a beleagured people then you must also respect the Russian maintenance of a Crimean protectorate.

So you're saying that Ukraine had attacked and killed thousands before the dodgy vote?

Crimea was under as much danger from Kiev as Cork is from Dublin.

Egginacup · 30-05-2015 12:28AM

Grayson wrote: »

So you're saying that Ukraine had attacked and killed thousands before the dodgy vote?

Crimea was under as much danger from Kiev as Cork is from Dublin.

Isn't the Kiev junta bombing ethnic Russians within Ukraine?

Close to 7,000 dead now?

I'm not sure about you but that strikes me as a government with which I'd not take my chances...LONG after the guns were silent.

Egginacup · 30-05-2015 12:40AM

Grayson wrote: »

So you're saying that Ukraine had attacked and killed thousands before the dodgy vote?

Crimea was under as much danger from Kiev as Cork is from Dublin.

What was dodgy about the vote Grayson?

Do you have some knowledge about it that nobody else does?

Explain your "dodgy" reference, if you would please.

Egginacup · 30-05-2015 12:43AM

Grayson wrote: »

So you're saying that Ukraine had attacked and killed thousands before the dodgy vote?

Crimea was under as much danger from Kiev as Cork is from Dublin.

No I'm not saying that.

Egginacup · 30-05-2015 01:04AM

You see Grayson,

even the dopes who believed that Saddam had wooden shuttles carrying Sarin and would land them in Ft Lauderdale, or that you can blow up a 747 with toothpaste in your knickers or that photographs that are a year or two old prove an invasion of a country, when even the German intelligence service and the United States services emphatically deny it are beginning to wonder if the lies are actually lies. Yet, there are still have the likes of you, clinging to the end. Ignoring facts and putting your everything on hearsay.

Beating the drum for an invasion that has now allegedly entered its second year. An invasion by a country with the world's largest air force yet not a single plane has crossed into Ukrainian airspace. One would think that if Russian tanks are being held after just crossing the border into Eastern Ukraine (imagine Ukraine holding back a Russian invasion for 15 months) there's be a few MiGs hammering in to loosen things up...no?

Gatling · 30-05-2015 01:16AM

Egginacup wrote: »

Isn't the Kiev junta bombing ethnic Russians within Ukraine?

Close to 7,000 dead now?

I'm not sure about you but that strikes me as a government with which I'd not take my chances...LONG after the guns were silent.

Mostly Ukrainian soldiers make up the majority of the casualties .

Strange don't you think civilian areas been apparently under heavily bombardment by Kiev and yet only 4000 casualties in over a year, seems to be very low ,
Wonder how many Russian casualties there have been

BlaasForRafa · 30-05-2015 03:24AM

Egginacup wrote: »

What was dodgy about the vote Grayson?

Do you have some knowledge about it that nobody else does?

Explain your "dodgy" reference, if you would please.

Again you're demanding things from other posters but yet refuse to do what you demand of others. So how about some answers from you before you throw out any more demands.

Does Russia do ANYTHING wrong in your world Eggy?

Tell us something Eggy, did the USSR invade Poland and Finland in 1939 and Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia in 1940?

IrishTrajan · 30-05-2015 04:48AM

Egginacup wrote: »

Beating the drum for an invasion that has now allegedly entered its second year. An invasion by a country with the world's largest air force yet not a single plane has crossed into Ukrainian airspace. One would think that if Russian tanks are being held after just crossing the border into Eastern Ukraine (imagine Ukraine holding back a Russian invasion for 15 months) there's be a few MiGs hammering in to loosen things up...no?

Conventional invasion defeats the purpose of the war. The war is to destabilize Ukraine and keep up a constant separatists movement in the country so that Ukraine can never join NATO.

If you think Russia isn't funnelling men and materials into Ukraine, you're incredibly naive.

darkpagandeath · 30-05-2015 05:08AM

http://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20150527&t=2&i=1051658450&w=976&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=LYNXMPEB4Q139

Must just be some random guys private army on the Border.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/27/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-military-idUSKBN0OC2K820150527

IrishTrajan · 30-05-2015 05:34AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Must just be some random guys private army on the Border.

Cue the "Russia can do what it wants inside its own borders, NATO is the one being aggressive by doing stuff within its own borders" speel.

darkpagandeath · 30-05-2015 05:36AM

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Cue the "Russia can do what it wants inside its own borders, NATO is the one being aggressive by doing stuff within its own borders" speel.

At lest you know it's NATO they don't remove the marking from their equipment and men.

Grayson · 30-05-2015 05:41AM

Egginacup wrote: »

No I'm not saying that.

You said that If a vote in Kosovo was justified because og ethnic cleansing than so was a vote in Crimea.

And yes, the vote was dodgy.

If a country (say the UK since it's our closest neighbour) were to invade Ireland and and then organise a poll within a week, whilst the country was under armed occupation, you'd say that was dodgy.

In the Crimean parliament the vote was called for by a guy who was suddenly running the place despite having received less than 3% of the vote. It was also surrounded by Russian troops at the time.

If you added in that the only "intentional observers" that were present were hand picked from far right wing (and surprisingly Nazi) groups You'd say it was worse.

And finally the vote itself occurred. There was widespread voter fraud. The Russian RT journalist covering the vote in one station actually recorded herself voting. Despite the fact that she was Russian and from Moscow.

Isiah · 13-06-2015 01:21AM

Grayson wrote: »

So you're saying that Ukraine had attacked and killed thousands before the dodgy vote?

Crimea was under as much danger from Kiev as Cork is from Dublin.

Crimea was in danger not of Kiev but of the maidan protests spreading there (including the mass rioting and burning of police)

Crimea did not want this, they did not identify with the revolution. I am Crimean. I think I know a bit more about public opinion there than someone who formed an opinion based on news and media.

LadyFenghuang · 13-06-2015 01:23AM

Isiah wrote: »

I am Crimean.

I highly doubt this.

Secondly if you were Crimean and felt and held the opinions you say you do then in all likelihood you would call yourself RUSSIAN. Their are either Russians or Ukrainians not Crimeans.

Isiah · 13-06-2015 01:28AM

Why is it so unbelievable that a person can be from Crimea? you do realize that this is a region in Europe and people travel and intermarry frequently?

Crimea may be some media pariah in your mind but it's a very real place with very real people who want the same thing we all want. Peace, stability, to earn a wage, to have a home.

Isiah · 13-06-2015 01:30AM

Go there and see for yourself. It's quite safe, peaceful and beautiful. The people are warm and welcoming. I have gone every year even during the reunification with Russia.

Isiah · 13-06-2015 01:35AM

LadyFenghuang wrote: »

I highly doubt this.

Secondly if you were Crimean and felt and held the opinions you say you do then in all likelihood you would call yourself RUSSIAN. Their are either Russians or Ukrainians not Crimeans.

You will find many Crimeans call themselves Crimeans in the west because they tend to get judged if they say they are Russian. No body likes to be judged because of their ethnicity but I have some issues with people discriminating against me in work and such so I just say I am Crimean if people ask.

Egginacup · 13-06-2015 01:57AM

Isiah wrote: »

Crimea was in danger not of Kiev but of the maidan protests spreading there (including the mass rioting and burning of police)

Crimea did not want this, they did not identify with the revolution. I am Crimean. I think I know a bit more about public opinion there than someone who formed an opinion based on news and media.

So how many of your Crimean mates are up in arms over the Russian invasion?

"I am Crimean"

:pac:

LadyFenghuang · 13-06-2015 01:59AM

Isiah wrote: »

Go there and see for yourself. It's quite safe, peaceful and beautiful. The people are warm and welcoming. I have gone every year even during the reunification with Russia.

I KNOW that is not true for a fact.

obplayer · 13-06-2015 02:05AM

Go there and see for yourself. It's quite safe, peaceful and beautiful. The people are warm and welcoming. I have gone every year even during the reunification with Russia.

LadyFenghuang wrote: »

I KNOW that is not true for a fact.

Could you give us some evidence as to what you know for a fact?

Ukraine: As it happens.

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