Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Communion season in full flow...parents question

1235

Comments

  • #122
    zeffabelli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,515 ✭✭✭zeffabelli


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Because the original intention was a non-denom system-that got hijacked.

    But aren't you referring back to what was essentially GReat Britain....what has that got to do with now? Nothing.


  • #123
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Because the original intention was a non-denom system-that got hijacked.

    That education was to be for the upperclass only, the chruch brought education to all. I am sure their is still private schools that are non denom if that's what you want


  • #124
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    What a childish stupid response. For the vast majority of people neither of these options are possible.

    Baording school in a private school so. Their is options they choose the area to live


  • #125
    zeffabelli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,515 ✭✭✭zeffabelli


    gravehold wrote: »
    That education was to be for the upperclass only, the chruch brought education to all. I am sure their is still private schools that are non denom if that's what you want

    There are. And maybe there is a solution in that.

    Give people vouchers to opt for private secular schools.

    If teh state is paying E5000 a year per child anyway....they may as well give it to people to choose a private school.


  • #126
    Zamboni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,292 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    gravehold wrote: »
    Home school, move area

    Or remove the allowance of discrimination provided for in Section 7.3(c) of the Equal Status Act 2000.


  • Advertisement
  • #127
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,561 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Zeffabelli, I feel you think I am defending religion in schools. I'm not .


    I'm saying that until people start to stand up for what they think is right, nothing will change.
    As long as people continue to play along with it, the DES won't rock the boat. It is a political entity after all and let's face it, most politicians would sell their grannies for a few votes.


  • #128
    zeffabelli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,515 ✭✭✭zeffabelli


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Zeffabelli, I feel you think I am defending religion in schools. I'm not .


    I'm saying that until people start to stand up for what they think is right, nothing will change.
    As long as people continue to play along with it, the DES won't rock the boat. It is a political entity after all and let's face it, most politicians would sell their grannies for a few votes.

    What do you do, boycott school? Everyone pull their children out for a week?


  • #129
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,691 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Zamboni wrote: »
    I recently spoke to an Asian family who have been working here ten years.
    They were told their son would not get in to the local school without a baptism cert, so they are now approaching churches to get the child baptised despite having no interest in any faith. His words were "I have no other choice for my son".
    Heartbreaking stuff :(

    I moved over from France in the 90's when I was a kid and wasn't baptised. My Mother got my brother and I baptised so we could get into the local school :rolleyes: I'm sure the same school let non-baptised kids in these days though.


  • #130
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gravehold wrote: »
    Baording school in a private school so. Their is options they choose the area to live

    So state sanctioned religious discrimination is acceptable so long as we only do it to children.

    We wouldn't do the same to adults in any other area of life but childrens education that's fair game for discrimination. Very strange life view that.


  • #131
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    So state sanctioned religious discrimination is acceptable so long as we only do it to children.

    We wouldn't do the same to adults in any other area of life but childrens education that's fair game for discrimination. Very strange life view that.

    The schools are their they get to set the rules, set up ET if their is a demand.


  • Advertisement
  • #132
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    zeffabelli wrote: »
    It's because Catholics like pageantry. Look at JFK...only Catholic president and they nicknamed it Camelot.

    Look at all the display teh Spanish do.

    Protestants aren't like that.

    Obviously you havent been in Belfast on the Twelfth


  • #133
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gravehold wrote: »
    The schools are their they get to set the rules, set up ET if their is a demand.

    But they are not all theirs. Quite a large number are owned and funded by the state. They are managed by religious organisations. The rest may be on property owned by religious organisations but are funded by the state. Why should the state pay a religious body to discriminate against children?


  • #134
    Eutow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Eutow


    gravehold wrote: »
    The schools are their they get to set the rules, set up ET if their is a demand.


    Schools getting funded by taxpayers should not be allowed to set their own rules on who gets allowed in. The state has a responsibility to ensure all children get an education. It is not the state's responsibility (or it shouldn't be) to provide religious education.


  • #135
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,691 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    gravehold wrote: »
    Baording school in a private school so. Their is options they choose the area to live

    Wow. Are you trolling? Some people can't just send their kids to boarding school, move areas or homeschool their children. Where I grew up the nearest ET school is 2 hours away.


  • #136
    zeffabelli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,515 ✭✭✭zeffabelli


    gravehold wrote: »
    That education was to be for the upperclass only, the chruch brought education to all. I am sure their is still private schools that are non denom if that's what you want

    Actually in the west, universal education coincided with the industrial revolution. The church brought education to Carholics, not to all. Protestant schools also discriminate.


  • #137
    Zamboni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,292 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    gravehold wrote: »
    The schools are their they get to set the rules, set up ET if their is a demand.

    ET are fantastic - and unlike other schools, don't discriminate on religious grounds so a large proportion of their places are children who are called Christian by their parents.
    This is fantastic as all children are educated together without any bias or segregation.
    The practical downside of that is that children without baptismal certs still face over-subscription issues at local levels.
    It would take decades for the State to supply ETs, based on demand in the Patronage Forum.

    Nothing short of the removal of Section 7.3(c) of the Equal Status Act 2000 will allow for Equal Access to Education for all children in the state in a reasonable timeframe.

    This is the quickest, simplest and most cost-efficient answer to the problem.


  • #138
    homewardbound11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭homewardbound11


    Fudge You wrote: »
    You are a parent, an adult. You make the choices.
    And by the sounds of it, you made some kinda silly ones, in regards to the communion.


    Explain instead of making silly insinuating comments just to annoy the poster. This is more of a troll than any contribution.


  • #139
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    But they are not all theirs. Quite a large number are owned and funded by the state. They are managed by religious organisations. The rest may be on property owned by religious organisations but are funded by the state. Why should the state pay a religious body to discriminate against children?

    Lobby the goverment to take back the schools which the chruch has no material assets in so and setup new ET in place where the chruch on the school and the land.

    Just don't ask them to steel the churches assets cause you don't like them and are a religophobe


  • #140
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    Zamboni wrote: »
    ET are fantastic - and unlike other schools, don't discriminate on religious grounds so a large proportion of their places are children who are called Christian by their parents.
    This is fantastic as all children are educated together without any bias or segregation.
    The practical downside of that is that children without baptismal certs still face over-subscription issues at local levels.
    It would take decades for the State to supply ETs, based on demand in the Patronage Forum.

    Nothing short of the removal of Section 7.3(c) of the Equal Status Act 2000 will allow for Equal Access to Education for all children in the state in a reasonable timeframe.

    This is the quickest, simplest and most cost-efficient answer to the problem.

    They should have to buy the assets at current market value to do that. Problem is the government don't have the money


  • #141
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gravehold wrote: »
    Lobby the goverment to take back the schools which the chruch has no material assets in so and setup new ET in place where the chruch on the school and the land.

    Just don't ask them to steel the churches assets cause you don't like them and are a religophobe

    I have not suggested the state steal anything.
    All I have suggested is that religious discrimination by state funded education providers should not be allowed. If the church wishes to discriminate then it should fund the entirety of these schools or they should be handed back to the government to assign a more suitable patron to manage.


  • Advertisement
  • #142
    Zamboni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,292 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    gravehold wrote: »
    They should have to buy the assets at current market value to do that. Problem is the government don't have the money

    They don't need to buy anything.
    Just change one piece of legislation.


  • #143
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gravehold wrote: »
    They should have to buy the assets at current market value to do that. Problem is the government don't have the money

    They should remove the churches assets to recoup the amount owed to the state for compensation to church abuse victims.


  • #144
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,561 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    zeffabelli wrote: »
    What do you do, boycott school? Everyone pull their children out for a week?

    No, lobby your td or local politicians. General election looming, a great opportunity.


  • #145
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    zeffabelli wrote: »
    The church brought education to Carholics, not to all.

    A reading from the first letter of Clarkson to the corinthians


  • #146
    Eutow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Eutow


    gravehold wrote: »
    They should have to buy the assets at current market value to do that. Problem is the government don't have the money


    There is no need. Make it law, change the constituation to ensure nobody is discriminatd due to gender, religion, non religious belief's, sexual orientation whatever. If parents want their children to receive some Catholic education they can pay an extra fee towards that to the church and those classes can be held after normal school hours.


  • #147
    Zamboni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,292 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    No, lobby your td or local politicians. General election looming, a great opportunity.

    Correct.

    Also tie in with likeminded groups.

    http://humanism.ie/2015/03/baptism-2/


  • #148
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    Eutow wrote: »
    There is no need. Make it law, change the constituation to ensure nobody is discriminatd due to gender, religion, non religious belief's, sexual orientation whatever. If parents want their children to receive some Catholic education they can pay an extra fee towards that to the church and those classes can be held after normal school hours.

    You realise the chruch will just close the doors to the buikdings they own then. The system would collapse


  • #149
    Eutow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Eutow


    gravehold wrote: »
    You realise the chruch will just close the doors to the buikdings they own then. The system would collapse


    So much for the church being a Christian organisation caring for their fellow man/woman. All about profit and assets is it, or indoctrination? I even give an incentive of making a bit of profit after school hours and it's still rejected.


  • #150
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    Eutow wrote: »
    So much for the church being a Crhistian organisation caring for their fellow man/woman. All about profit and assets is it, or indoctrination?

    Goverment would be forcing their hand being told they are not wanted to run the schools


  • Advertisement
  • #151
    mikeym
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭mikeym


    I dont get the whole communion cake thing???

    I never got any cake when I made my communion.


Advertisement
Advertisement