Yet another death happens in police custody: Freddy Gray

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2015 12:05PM

Junkyard Cat wrote: »

It's much easier for the eternally frightened among us to have a single 'cause' focus for their nervousness i.e. 'black'.

So the violent crime murder stats are just all made up then so ? And out of curiosity how much more lightly is a black male to be shot by another black male than a white racist police officer ? The last stats I saw were pretty grim.

28-04-2015 12:08PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

guns are the only thing holding the whole thing together at this stage

try and take them off people and there will be a bloodbath

Attempting to clamp down on firearms would certainly bring backlash, especially from the NRA types and those who set up their own remote communities to stay away from the government.

If things in Baltimore escalate and shots are fired, just like in Ferguson, then they're one step closer to justifying clamping down on firearms.

Damned if they do damned if they don't. One way or another the next few years will be very interesting if episodes like this keep occuring.

ohnonotgmail · 28-04-2015 12:12PM

circadian wrote: »

Attempting to clamp down on firearms would certainly bring backlash, especially from the NRA types and those who set up their own remote communities to stay away from the government.

If things in Baltimore escalate and shots are fired, just like in Ferguson, then they're one step closer to justifying clamping down on firearms.

Damned if they do damned if they don't. One way or another the next few years will be very interesting if episodes like this keep occuring.

if these people have had their life blighted because they have a criminal record then they dont have the right to possess firearms so a clampdown on firearms would be pointless and counter-productive. the only people it would affect are those who hold them legally.

Junkyard Tom · 28-04-2015 12:16PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

So the violent crime murder stats are just all made up then so?

Where did I say that?

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2015 12:19PM

Junkyard Cat wrote: »

Where did I say that?

You are making out that it's not factually correct to be more wary of a black criminal. Due to the violence rates murder rates.

wes · 28-04-2015 12:28PM

MathDebater wrote: »

No, people just don't have much pity for a career criminal

Hardly reason enough to dispense with trials, or for the matter to be investigated.

MathDebater wrote: »

and protesters who are destroying their own neighbourhoods.

I have no sympathy for any violent rioters.

Nodin · 28-04-2015 12:28PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

At what age is it ok for you to be deemed old enough to face up to your actions though? Should a 45 year old get a harsher sentence than a 19 year old for the same crime?

Again, its not a question of a harsher sentence - a lot of it is what happens after jail. You can't collect the scratcher if you're convicted of drug crime in Baltimore. Furthermore a conviction means that various jobs are closed to you. Some states remove voting rights etc.

ohnonotgmail · 28-04-2015 12:31PM

Nodin wrote: »

Again, its not a question of a harsher sentence - a lot of it is what happens after jail. You can't collect the scratcher if you're convicted of drug crime in Baltimore. Furthermore a conviction means that various jobs are closed to you. Some states remove voting rights etc.

even more reason not to get involved in crime i would have thought.

28-04-2015 12:32PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

if these people have had their life blighted because they have a criminal record then they dont have the right to possess firearms so a clampdown on firearms would be pointless and counter-productive. the only people it would affect are those who hold them legally.

First of all I mentioned nothing of blight or criminal records in that post. Sure don't let that get in the way of your agenda. Whatever it is.

Secondly, on the topic of criminals and guns. Where do you think they get them? Most guns are stolen/bought on the black market. If someone can get an AR-15 legally, then someone can also steal that weapon. If gun stores stock assault rifles, these can also be stolen. Then there's people who go on to sell guns that they legally purchased. This may be an illegal practice but it happens.

A clampdown on firearms would not be pointless and counter-productive.

ohnonotgmail · 28-04-2015 12:38PM

circadian wrote: »

First of all I mentioned nothing of blight or criminal records in that post. Sure don't let that get in the way of your agenda. Whatever it is.

I have no agenda.

circadian wrote: »

Secondly, on the topic of criminals and guns. Where do you think they get them? Most guns are stolen/bought on the black market. If someone can get an AR-15 legally, then someone can also steal that weapon. If gun stores stock assault rifles, these can also be stolen. Then there's people who go on to sell guns that they legally purchased. This may be an illegal practice but it happens.

A clampdown on firearms would not be pointless and counter-productive.

if you clamp down on firearms the only people you actually affect are the people who hold them legally. the criminals will keep committing crime as they always do. it is counter-productive.

wes · 28-04-2015 12:56PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

even more reason not to get involved in crime i would have thought.

If you can't find work, then surely the person is more likely to once again resort to crime. There needs to be an incentive to not re-offend, as opposed to a life long punishment, which make people more likely to re-offend.

jank · 28-04-2015 01:00PM

Why is it acceptable for people to riot and destroy and steal property from people within their own community. All they do is harm the residents of these communities even more by driving up rents and prices. Its like pissing in the wind, utterly pointless.

As to the person involved, well his record speaks for himself. It should be independently investigated but not exactly an up standing member of the community. Play with fire the chances of something more serious happening increases.

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2015 01:03PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I have no agenda.

if you clamp down on firearms the only people you actually affect are the people who hold them legally. the criminals will keep committing crime as they always do. it is counter-productive.

Really ? why do other countries not have the gun problem ?

ohnonotgmail · 28-04-2015 01:05PM

wes wrote: »

If you can't find work, then surely the person is more likely to once again resort to crime. There needs to be an incentive to not re-offend, as opposed to a life long punishment, which make people more likely to re-offend.

they are barred from some jobs. not from all jobs. the "i dont have any option but to be a criminal" line is just poor.

crockholm · 28-04-2015 01:05PM

wes wrote: »

If you can't find work, then surely the person is more likely to once again resort to crime. There needs to be an incentive to not re-offend, as opposed to a life long punishment, which make people more likely to re-offend.

I Believe some cities have "second chance" schemes,I know Chicago does.There,ex cons can get city jobs with CDOT (transport),nice cushy union job.Baltimore having a larger black population would surely have something similar.

ohnonotgmail · 28-04-2015 01:06PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Really ? why do other countries not have the gun problem ?

where are these magic countries? guns are illegal here yet somehow criminals magically manage to acquire firearms. how has effectively banning firearms helped us?

InTheTrees · 28-04-2015 01:07PM

jank wrote: »

Why is it acceptable for people to riot and destroy and steal property from people within their own community. All they do is harm the residents of these communities even more by driving up rents and prices. Its like pissing in the wind, utterly pointless.

There's not a chance that the Justice Department would have conducted the Ferguson investigation if there hadnt been such a level of civil unrest.

The problem is that nobody is going to delve any deeper into these injustices if there's isnt a massive public reaction.

Thats just the way it is living as an impoverished minority in the USA.

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2015 01:11PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

where are these magic countries? guns are illegal here yet somehow criminals magically manage to acquire firearms. how has effectively banning firearms helped us?

Canada for example. Does not have this gun crime problem. What are the odds here of being shot ?

ohnonotgmail · 28-04-2015 01:13PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Canada for example. Does not have this gun crime problem.

didnt realise guns were banned in canada. thanks for the tip.

jank · 28-04-2015 01:13PM

InTheTrees wrote: »

There's not a chance that the Justice Department would have conducted the Ferguson investigation if there hadnt been such a level of civil unrest.

The problem is that nobody is going to delve any deeper into these injustices if there's isnt a massive public reaction.

Thats just the way it is living as an impoverished minority in the USA.

Sorry but I do not buy that.

There are many other courses of action a community can take which is peaceful and does not result in violence and the destruction or property in the same community you are trying to improve. It makes absolutely no sense to trash the place in an effort to get attention. Its actually a pathetic excuse for unwarranted violence.

ohnonotgmail · 28-04-2015 01:14PM

jank wrote: »

Sorry but I do not buy that.

There are many other courses of action a community can take which is peaceful and does not result in violence and the destruction or property in the same community you are trying to improve. It makes absolutely no sense to trash the place in an effort to get attention. Its actually a pathetic excuse for unwarranted violence.

but those other ways dont involve getting a free tv

28-04-2015 01:17PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

didnt realise guns were banned in canada. thanks for the tip.

Guns aren't banned here or in Canada. The rules, however, are much stricter than in the US not to mention that I'm pretty certain you can't buy handguns or anything not specifically designed for hunting. Basically, your options are either hunting rifles or shotguns. Not assault rifles, not tactical shotguns.

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2015 01:23PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

didnt realise guns were banned in canada. thanks for the tip.

What are you on about ? I pointed out other countries with similar amount of gun ownership don't have this problem with gun crime. It seems uniquely American.

ohnonotgmail · 28-04-2015 01:27PM

circadian wrote: »

Guns aren't banned here or in Canada. The rules, however, are much stricter than in the US not to mention that I'm pretty certain you can't buy handguns or anything not specifically designed for hunting. Basically, your options are either hunting rifles or shotguns. Not assault rifles, not tactical shotguns.

explain to me how a semi-auto rifle is less dangerous than an assault rife?

28-04-2015 01:33PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

explain to me how a semi-auto rifle is less dangerous than an assault rife?

Can you explain to me why someone would need an M-16?

I'm not justifying that semi-auto rifles are any less dangerous. In capable hands they are probably more dangerous. However, if some mug with an assault rifle decides to open fire all they have to do is spray and pray.

Have you ever fired an assault rifle? It's surprisingly easy compared to raising, aiming and firing a bolt action rifle.

How about an MP5? Why does someone need one of those? Honestly, what possible reason would someone have to walk into a gun shop to buy a submachine gun?

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2015 01:34PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

explain to me how a semi-auto rifle is less dangerous than an assault rife?

Whats that got to do with the amount of gun crime in the USA vs other places ? The argument of more guns it nonsense. Oh but the criminals have them they do in other countries.

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2015 01:35PM

circadian wrote: »

Can you explain to me why someone would need an M-16?

I'm not justifying that semi-auto rifles are any less dangerous. In capable hands they are probably more dangerous. However, if some mug with an assault rifle decides to open fire all they have to do is spray and pray.

Have you ever fired an assault rifle? It's surprisingly easy compared to raising, aiming and firing a bolt action rifle.

How about an MP5? Why does someone need one of those? Honestly, what possible reason would someone have to walk into a gun shop to buy a submachine gun?

To Stop the king of England coming into your house and wreaking up the place. :pac:

Cienciano · 28-04-2015 01:38PM

Nodin wrote: »

O yeah.....

"Over the past four years, more than 100 people have won court judgments or settlements related to allegations of brutality and civil rights violations. Victims include a 15-year-old boy riding a dirt bike, a 26-year-old pregnant accountant who had witnessed a beating, a 50-year-old woman selling church raffle tickets, a 65-year-old church deacon rolling a cigarette and an 87-year-old grandmother aiding her wounded grandson."
http://data.baltimoresun.com/news/police-settlements/

....not to mention the less than Dredd like honesty

"BALTIMORE — Tucked behind a liquor store, opposite a flooring company, Majestic Body Shop was an unremarkable sight amid a blur of commercial properties just east of the city limits. But the police cars that always seemed to be parked at the repair shop caught the eyes of passing drivers. The F.B.I. noticed as well — agents were videotaping Majestic and tapping its phone."
.........
"Each time a car reached Majestic, officers received several hundred dollars. Some damaged the cars more to increase the insurance payout. The scheme grew as Mr. Corona recruited other officers, who in turn brought in more colleagues, until at least 51 were involved. Court documents from one defendant suggest 59 officers made calls to the brothers."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/09/us/baltimore-police-corruption-case-tests-commissioner.html?_r=1

"FBI investigators acting on a tip from a disgraced former Baltimore police investigator have found that officers in a special plainclothes unit falsified reports to further their cases, a federal prosecutor allegedin court Thursday.
Kendell Richburg, who was assigned to the Violent Crimes Impact Section, turned on his colleagues after he was charged with federal drug and gun offenses. He told prosecutors he was just one of many who misrepresented facts in order to protect informants and continue making arrests, Assistant U.S. Attorney David Copperthite said."
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-ci-police-under-investigation-20131024-story.html

How is this post different to using Freddy Greys previous arrests against him?

28-04-2015 01:40PM

Cienciano wrote: »

How is this post different to using Freddy Greys previous arrests against him?

Did anyone actually see his conviction record?

Lt J.R. Bell · 28-04-2015 01:40PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

where are these magic countries? guns are illegal here yet somehow criminals magically manage to acquire firearms. how has effectively banning firearms helped us?

How many deaths are caused in Ireland by firearms?

How many members of the Gardai have shot people? Remember how replused the nation was when Abbeylara happened and the awful circumstances.? Was it a common occurrence back then?

Do we have lunatics shooting up people in schools?

Hell people get upty about prono magazines been in display in shops, imagine what it would be like with a Walmart ala USA.? You've seen Bowling for Columbine?,

Irish history , like history of many countries was born from the barrel of a gun. It's only 15 years ago a part of the island took the idea of removing guns from every day life. Of course there are still guns in the country. Some criminals may have stolen legally held guns. It would be pretty easy to smuggling in guns here.but , why should a tiny minority determine what really goes down. Most of us, if we wanted could legally own a gun (well a shot gun for shooting)

Yet another death happens in police custody: Freddy Gray

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