Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Jamelia: 'High street shops shouldn't sell plus size clothing'

1…79111213

Comments

  • #242
    whatismyname
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭whatismyname


    nokia69 wrote: »
    bull****

    in my entire life I have only ever seen 3 people with anorexia and I almost never see people, male or female, that are under weight

    I will be in Dublin city centre today and I bet I don't see one person who is under weight, but we all know I will see countless people who are obese

    an exponential rate LOL

    Generally problems will arise when people form their opinions on what they see (or think they see) when they go into town, rather than looking up research / evidence etc. Either of you may or may not be right, but there's a whole world of evidence and research on the subject, but if you prefer to generally just forum opinions and assumptions on stuff based on what you see what you go into town, then yeah, good luck with that.


  • #243
    Tayla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭Tayla


    whatismyname wrote: »
    Yep, I think what often happens though is that many shops sell out of bigger sizes quicker cos there's more bigger people, so it feels like they don't stock bigger sizes. .

    I always find that the small sizes are gone first, I think it's probably because teenagers tend to shop in the same shops as women now and a lot of them would be slim.
    One eyed Jack wrote: »

    Ehh, not sure if you're underplaying there, but there are a frightening number of underweight adults in just Ireland alone, and what's becoming more obvious if you actually look at the statistics is that the number of men with ED are increasing at an exponential rate year on year as opposed to the rate of ED in women which is a more gradual increase, but at the same time, still increasing.

    I think when people think of eating disorders they think of skinny women but tbh most slim people I know either watch what they eat for a good percentage of the time but still indulge when they want to or else they have fast metabolisms and eat what they want.

    I know quite a few overweight people who obsess over what they eat, they think about food all the time and feel guilty when they eat things that they think they shouldn't, they go on fad diets, fail, binge and then try another one, some of them even try all sorts of diet pills.

    These people are the ones with eating disorders.....but society looks at them and just sees them as someone with a weight problem...and the slim girl who likes to have a healthy diet or watches what she eats is the one with the eating disorder.


  • #244
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭nokia69


    Calina wrote: »
    Are you familiar with the words "confirmation bias at all"?

    I live in Dublin and am often enough in the city centre. I see plenty of extremely thin people. Men and women.

    It's not that they are not there; it is that you just don't notice them. You might also want to bear in mind that people may have anorexia and you just see it because they are not thin enough for you to see it yet. Plus, you're too busy looking for overweight people.

    I do see thin people too

    but there is no way in hell that the number of underweight people is anywhere near as high as the number of obese people

    I thing fat people like to link under eating and over eating together to make themselves feel better


  • #245
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Tayla wrote: »
    I always find that the small sizes are gone first, I think it's probably because teenagers tend to shop in the same shops as women now and a lot of them would be slim.
    Depends where you're shopping too - go to Dundrum and there will be a lot fewer sizes 6/8/10 left on the rack than there would be in the Square, for example.


  • #246
    whatismyname
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭whatismyname


    nokia69 wrote: »
    I do see thin people too

    but there is no way in hell that the number of underweight people is anywhere near as high as the number of obese people

    I don't necessarily think people are saying they are - rather responding to your claim that
    how many underweight adults in the country, almost zero
    which I'm sure you can see is an incredibly different thing than saying that the number of underweight people is anywhere near as high as the number of obese people.


  • Advertisement
  • #247
    Calina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    nokia69 wrote: »
    I do see thin people too

    but there is no way in hell that the number of underweight people is anywhere near as high as the number of obese people

    The problem is you cannot, on sight alone, always judge whether someone is underweight or not. It can be very dependent on the clothes they were. Likewise, medically speaking, there is a line in BMI which defines obese people versus people who are overweight. You cannot judge this by sight.

    The simple point is you don't know what you're talking about. No one is stating that there is no issue with people being overweight. They are stating that people who come up with "don't sell unhealthy people pretty clothes" are fundamentally not addressing the problem in an effective way.

    Walking down the street, you certainly aren't equipped to make a call one way or the other.


  • #248
    folamh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 787 ✭✭✭folamh


    nokia69 wrote: »
    bull****

    in my entire life I have only ever seen 3 people with anorexia and I almost never see people, male or female, that are under weight

    I will be in Dublin city centre today and I bet I don't see one person who is under weight, but we all know I will see countless people who are obese

    an exponential rate LOL
    Anorexia is a mental disease, not a physical one, although it has physical side-effects.


  • #249
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭nokia69


    One eyed Jack wrote: »

    I'll take that bet, nothing wrong with women in Dublin! :D

    I never said there was

    I just said I would see far more obese people than underweight people


  • #250
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,304 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    nokia69 wrote: »
    its a nice way to avoid saying you're fat


    Well that's just it - my problem with the term "plus size" is that it's nothing more than a marketing term, like that "body positive" nonsense.

    I find the terms patronising more than helpful, at least being able to say I'm fat or I'm overweight is something that at least everyone has a better idea of than "plus size" or... *shudder* BHM (you can look that up yourself, it's embarrassing even having to type it, male equivalent of BBW).

    It really is a way of encouraging people to feel better about themselves for being fat, and it's wrong IMO. In the same way as I think it's wrong to pick on people who are fat or overweight, I'd hate to think we should have to celebrate it either. What's to celebrate? You're still focussing on that person's physical appearance, and what happens when they're older and everything is gone south?

    Nature will do that, and short of surgical intervention a person isn't going to be able to prevent that. If they've been taught that their self-worth is based upon their physical appearance, they're going to get an awful land as they get older and are expected to be mature adults.


  • #251
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭nokia69


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Well if you're going to tell me how to calculate averages, I'm sure you already have a basic understanding of how statistical analysis works and you know what an exponential growth rate year on year actually means.

    I do know what it means

    so tell me how long do I have to wait before I'm surrounded by underweight people


  • Advertisement
  • #252
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,360 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    There were always fat people, on the same scale today as ever before.
    That's quite simply not true and provably so. In the western world people's bodies have changed over the last century. Retail outlet records goin back to 1900 show this quite clearly. People have grown taller and wider since then. In women the hourglass figure has shrunk as a percentage of the body types out there. In the US this change is very obvious, but it's happening in Europe too, though tends to be more an Anglosphere thing(though Spain has the fattest kids in the EU).

    Just looking back in my own life over the last near half century I see the changes. Now they're not as dire as some seem to think, but people are getting heavier. In my year in school the "fat lad" was more chubby than anything and would appear within the range of normal these days. A few years back I saw a class photo of a mate of mine whose son attends the same school as I did. Yes it most certainly wasn't "ohmigod, they're all obese", the average was pretty much what the average always was, if slightly broader, but there were far fewer skinny malinks and more of the overweight guys. The trend is definitely towards more heavy people. More people carrying a few extra pounds rather than more people carrying fewer.

    I reckon one's own worldview is based on whom you tend to hang out with too. Birds of a feather kinda thing might be in play. I attended a wedding a good few years ago now and of both families and guests the vast majority of folks were overweight tending towards obese. The adults anyway, the kids were thin. I was getting the skinny comments a few times(in jest). Well I am to be fair. In such an environment a person could put on a fair bit of weight before it might be noticed as the norm was for heavier.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #253
    folamh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 787 ✭✭✭folamh


    nokia, I can't contradict your own experience, but for what it's worth when I walk around Dublin I mostly see thin people and average people, and overweight people would be the outliers! Like, maybe every 1 in every 25 people or so would be overweight.


  • #254
    whatismyname
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭whatismyname


    "Oi Jamelia. Telling women they're 'too fat' to go shopping ain't helping anyone" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11555067/Jamelia-weight-row-Shaming-women-over-body-image-aint-helping-anyone.html


  • #255
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,304 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    nokia69 wrote: »
    I do know what it means

    so tell me how long do I have to wait before I'm surrounded by underweight people


    You don't have to wait at all, chances are you're surrounded by them already, and two of the factors that comes into play too are as rainbow kirby alluded to, location and socioeconomics -

    rainbow kirby wrote: »
    Depends where you're shopping too - go to Dundrum and there will be a lot fewer sizes 6/8/10 left on the rack than there would be in the Square, for example.


    And I know it's only anecdotal, but from my own personal experience working with travellers, ain't too many of 'em "fat knackers", definitely a bit of a misnomer that one :confused:

    That gets into a whole other murky area of nondescript labels though which meanings vary greatly called "malnutrition".


  • #256
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭nokia69


    folamh wrote: »
    nokia, I can't contradict your own experience, but for what it's worth when I walk around Dublin I mostly see thin people and average people, and overweight people would be the outliers! Like, maybe every 1 in every 25 people or so would be overweight.

    I think seeing so many fat people has changed your perception of what overweight is

    far more than 4% of people in Dublin/Ireland are overweight


  • #257
    whatismyname
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭whatismyname


    folamh wrote: »
    Like, maybe every 1 in every 25 people or so would be overweight.

    Out of interest, how would you define overweight here?

    Are you instead of thinking 'look visibly obese, and perhaps even looks potentially morbidly obese'?

    I often find it shocking how probably so many of my friends who don't look anything like overweight to me, it seems actually clinically are, and of course has been said a few times in most cases we can't just look at someone and say for certain whether they're overweight. In some cases (I'm one such case) it'd be obvious, but in many it won't be, with it of course being so much more than just about how much someone looks or even weighs.


  • #258
    folamh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 787 ✭✭✭folamh


    whatismyname wrote: »
    Out of interest, how would you define overweight here?

    Are you instead of thinking 'look visibly obese, and perhaps morbidly obese'?

    I often find it shocking how probably so many of my friends who don't look anything like overweight to me, it seems actually clinically are, and of course has been said a few times in most cases we can't just look at someone and say for certain whether they're overweight. In some cases (I'm one such case) it'd be obvious, but in many it won't be, with it of course being so much more than just about how much someone looks or even weighs.
    That's true. I guess what I mean is that 1 in 25 people I see look visibly obese, although some of them mightn't be clinically obese or unhealthy.


  • #259
    Tayla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭Tayla


    One good thing I've noticed over the last couple of years is that there are definitely a lot more people who are overhauling their lifestyles for health and longevity purposes rather than simply for weight loss purposes. I think that is really good to see.

    There have been times when I (as a slim person) would be embarrassed to be seen checking out food labels in the supermarket because I feel like people are looking at me thinking oh the poor girl clearly is obsessed with calories or whatever.

    It makes me wonder though about what it will be like in a few years if the healthy lifestyle movement continues to grow and so does the obesity crisis, will there be an even bigger divide of opinions?


  • #260
    whatismyname
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭whatismyname


    Tayla wrote: »
    One good thing I've noticed over the last couple of years is that there are definitely a lot more people who are overhauling their lifestyles for health and longevity purposes rather than simply for weight loss purposes. I think that is really good to see.

    Yep I know for me I try to make a conscious effort (often fail at it, but still try), to have a healthy lifestyle, not specifically for weight purposes, but for my mental wellbeing.

    Something which so many people don't give much thought to unless they become mentally unwell, but I would love to see more people generally thinking about how much these things relate to their mental wellbing rather than just physical.


  • #261
    Tayla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭Tayla


    whatismyname wrote: »
    Yep I know for me I try to make a conscious effort (often fail at it, but still try), to have a healthy lifestyle, not specifically for weight purposes, but for my mental wellbeing.

    Something which so many people don't give much thought to unless they become mentally unwell, but I would love to see more people generally thinking about how much these things relate to their mental wellbing rather than just physical.

    I completely agree, I used to be completely addicted to sugar, I even ate chocolate every day for breakfast and once I gave it up the difference in my mental well being was unbelievable, I don't think people understand how much healthier and more energetic you feel when you eat a healthy diet.

    Something that bugs me about a lot of slimming groups is that they are always looking for the underlying issues that cause people to overeat but they seem to often ignore the fact that a bad diet has a very negative effect on their mood. Yes a huge amount of overweight people have low self esteem but which came first, the low self esteem or the bad diet?
    It's a chicken and egg situation.

    The food that people seem to be most often addicted to is the junk which by its very nature is made to be addictive, it switches off the hormones that regulates appetite, it makes you crave it more and more, people think they are craving it because of their underlying issues but I think in many cases they are craving it because that's what that food does to your body....then when you add that to the weight gain and the low self esteem issues then it's really a recipe for disaster.


  • Advertisement
  • #262
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,745 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    When I was at my heaviest (size 16) giving up junk was a big thing for me, and ultimately the key to losing the weight. I spent I don't know how many hours I spent in shops just staring at the chocolate wanting some but knowing that I'd regret it later.

    All I can say is that when you manage to kick the choccies and stay off for a good while you realise how unbearably sweet it is and it actually (I found) gets hard to eat. I've had a bag of Kinder chocos in the fridge for the past fortnight and there's still some left.

    Now, if I could only stop myself from eating so much cheese....


  • #263
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭nokia69


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    You don't have to wait at all, chances are you're surrounded by them already, and two of the factors that comes into play too are as rainbow kirby alluded to, location and socioeconomics -

    nope

    unless I worked in a clinic treating anorexia I don't expect to be surrounded by underweight people anytime soon

    and their numbers will not be growing at an exponential rate


  • #264
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,304 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    nokia69 wrote: »
    nope

    unless I worked in a clinic treating anorexia I don't expect to be surrounded by underweight people anytime soon

    and their numbers will not be growing at an exponential rate


    But sure as you pointed out yourself earlier - they're not going to be as obvious as people who are fat/overweight/obese/grossly overweight/unattractive, etc, etc.

    My point is that you simply won't know, because they're wearing clothes, which obviously aren't going to be as snug/tight-fitting/stressed as people who are obviously overweight.

    The number of men with ED in Ireland is growing at an exponential rate. You can check it out for yourself on bodywhys.ie (I can't because I'm on mobile right now), but eating disorders includes a whole spectrum, not just anorexia, and that's why even trying to drill down into those figures is difficult, because if you take a whole lot of eating disorders and lump them all in together, then what you end up with is that ED is increasing exponentially among men.

    That also includes obesity as an ED, care to tell me more men ain't carrying "love handles"? It's wonderful how we name things and frame things in such a way as to make them sound positive, isn't it? Women have 'muffin tops', men have 'love handles', wonder who came up with those terms? :D


  • #265
    Frito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 769 ✭✭✭Frito


    whatismyname wrote: »
    What's this 'average sized clothing' we're talking of? I have not seen it mentioned before, so thought I'd ask. What is 'average sized'?

    According to https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/11/20/size-12-britains-ideal-dress-size/ as one example, the average female dress size in the UK is 16 - which of course is 'plus size'.

    So I've no idea what the average sized clothing thing you're meaning is but average sized seems to be plus sized. Not the higher end of plus sized, but plus size all the same.

    For the purposes of her argument, it's whatever Jamelia thinks it is. The point is to use the same pop-psychology to draw attention to the flaws in her argument.

    To clarify, I am well aware of the differences in sizing between shops and the aspirational average (do they want us all to be 8-10?)and the actual average (which I believe is a size 16).


  • #266
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭nokia69


    One eyed Jack wrote: »

    The number of men with ED in Ireland is growing at an exponential rate. You can check it out for yourself on bodywhys.ie (I can't because I'm on mobile right now), but eating disorders includes a whole spectrum, not just anorexia, and that's why even trying to drill down into those figures is difficult, because if you take a whole lot of eating disorders and lump them all in together, then what you end up with is that ED is increasing exponentially among men.

    so is the number of people with ED increasing at an exponential rate or the number of underweight people

    because your original claim was that the number of underweight people was increasing at an exponential rate

    you are now moving the goal posts


  • #267
    denhaagenite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭denhaagenite


    Just a point to note as well, what's "the average" and what should be the average are two different things. People should be looking at a healthy weight for themselves, this can't be compared to other people. I saw a blog post this morning where two larger ladies ordered a load of plus size clothes from the internet and then took photos of themselves wearing them, comparing with the model pictured on the websites. Most of their comments were taking the piss out of the model, who was probably around a 14/ 16.

    I'm really happy for people who are comfortable in their own skin, I truly am. But how happy can a person be if they need to make derogatory comments about other people? Also, being happy in your own skin doesn't make you any less unhealthy, sorry about that.


  • #268
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭nokia69


    One eyed Jack wrote: »

    That also includes obesity as an ED, care to tell me more men ain't carrying "love handles"? It's wonderful how we name things and frame things in such a way as to make them sound positive, isn't it? Women have 'muffin tops', men have 'love handles', wonder who came up with those terms? :D

    oh so now fat is a feminist issue

    BTW the term love handles is used for both men and women

    but on the other side only real women have curves LOL


  • #269
    whatismyname
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭whatismyname


    nokia69 wrote: »
    oh so now fat is a feminist issue

    where did they say being fat is a feminist issue / how did you interpret it that way?


  • #270
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭nokia69


    whatismyname wrote: »
    where did they say being fat is a feminist issue / how did you interpret it that way?

    in the quote below

    jack is well known is these parts for being a feminist
    Women have 'muffin tops', men have 'love handles', wonder who came up with those terms


  • Advertisement
  • #271
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    nokia69 wrote: »
    oh so now fat is a feminist issue

    BTW the term love handles is used for both men and women

    but on the other side only real women have curves LOL

    You just seem to have an issue with women, fat or otherwise tbh


Advertisement
Advertisement