Jamelia: 'High street shops shouldn't sell plus size clothing'

UCDVet · 23-04-2015 08:52AM

folamh wrote: »

I agree that low self-esteem in itself doesn't cause weight gain. In fact for many people it's a contributing factor for weight loss (anorexics tend to have low self-esteem). But I didn't say that it causes weight gain. I said that fat people are likely to have low self-esteem.

Although not a causal factor in itself, low self-esteem *can* exacerbate obesity in that it contributes to lack of motivation to exercise and eat healthfully.

I'd certainly agree with that. Sorry if I misunderstood you earlier.

folamh · 23-04-2015 08:58AM

whatismyname wrote: »

Nah, I think they nailed it tbh.

I just keep reaching for all the bad food, not cos it's feeding my emotions and making me feel better for a little while, but cos I LOVE being fat.

I love knowing that I'm the fattest one in my circle of friends.

I love that I have a whole wardrobe of clothes that don't fit me, cos this means I get to buy new clothes, it's great!

I love that I'm half convinced that the guy who I have been starting to get with, but who thinks it may not work out, thinks this cos I'm so fat and unattractive.

I love that I probably will enjoy my beach holiday in May less due to being uncomfortable with my belly, and I love how hard it is to find bikini bottoms that are going to hold it all in.

I love how hard it is to change my ways even though I keep trying actually fairly fecking hard, cos at least I get to reward myself for my efforts with a massive big part of chocolate.

I love how I was quite pleased when I realised I'd not cut myself for months, or even felt an urge to for a while, but then realised that that's cos I don't usually have a need to anymore, not when stuffing my face full of yummy food has way more of an impact than cutting usually did.

I love how my psychologist does not seem to take my food problem as seriously as if I was still cutting myself, even though it probably affects me more.

I love my big flabby arms, and the difficulty of finding decent tops to suit them.

I love how cool I look in photos with my double chin.

I really, really love how I have had to change to wearing more dresses and skirts, cos it's felt literally impossible to find trousers to fit, be it they're stuck to me, or they're too loose, and I love that belts in shop don't seem long enough to go round bigger bellies.

I love how I couldn't continue my weight loss class in the gym due to how anxiety provoking it was being, especially cos the fit guy who runs it was so mechanical, seemed to have no clue about emotional connection with food, who seemed to just see us as mechanical machines. I love how the last session caused a panic attack, cos hey at least I got to KFC a bit sooner.

I love the judgement and lack of understanding and how people say it's 'excuses'. There are complex reasons behind things related to complex human beings. Reasons, not excuses. I can give reasons, but that doesn't mean I'm excusing it. There's such a huge difference.

I love how no matter how hard I try I always seem to go back to my bad ways, cos when I'm feeling so bad inside, it helps, it gets me through.

And I particularly love how it's really just another reason for me to see myself as a stupid, fat, worthless, failure, who can't even do something as straightforward as stopping shoving fatty food into her fat gob, and can't just eat properly instead. It's about my emotions, not about food, but surely I'm just a weak, stupid failure if I can't just deal with my emotions in healthier ways after all this time. Yep, I definitely particularly love that feeling, and how it just reinforces so much of what I already feel is bad about me.

I'm sorry for your pain.

denhaagenite · 23-04-2015 08:59AM

Chloris wrote: »

Can I just interject and say in a supposedly educated society where there is no scarcity of food, for a woman over five foot to weigh under ten stone is nonsense.

Unless you're a rugby player or something, then I suggest you stop looking at your weight and start looking at your BMI. I am the same height as you and fluctuate between 8.5 and 9 stone. I'm not emaciated and I don't starve myself. I need to eat a lot actually, because I have a very active lifestyle.

whatismyname wrote: »

I love how my psychologist does not seem to take my food problem as seriously as if I was still cutting myself, even though it probably affects me more.

Good on you for asking for the help you know you need. You're a stronger person than I, certainly. But you need to find a psychologist who will actually help you.

UCDVet · 23-04-2015 09:01AM

folamh wrote: »

"For starters, self-esteem increases with age, peaking around 55"

That might be a general trend, but wouldn't people with eating problems like binge-eating, anorexia and EDNOS be anomalous to the general population? Persistant low self-esteem is highly correlated with eating disorders.

That's a fair point, but given that nearly 50% of everyone is overweight, I think we can generalize somewhat. Certainly, none of what I'm saying would not apply to 'edge cases' who tend to have severe physical or mental issues as a core part of their condition.

Maybe I'm biased here, I know a lot of people (friends, family, myself) who are either overweight or obese....but otherwise healthy. I think these represents most of the overweight and obese people in western cultures. We're the way we are because we choose that lifestyle.

I can go on a diet/exercise regimen and lose weight. And certainly I prefer how I look when I'm less overweight/not overweight. And that causes my self esteem to go up. But after a few months, I realize I'd *rather* not workout today. I'd *rather* go ahead and get a giant tub of popcorn at the movies. So I do. And before long, I'm overweight again. And my self esteem does go down, slightly.

On the other hand, if we want to attribute obesity to serious eating disorders, we'd need an explanation for what has caused this massive spike in serious eating disorders in our population over the last few decades. I think it's far more likely (and many studies support this) that we're simply eating more calories and doing less activity.

folamh · 23-04-2015 09:05AM

denhaagenite wrote: »

You're a stronger person than I, certainly. But you need to find a psychologist who will actually help you.

Agree with this, whatismyname. Taking pro-active measures like seeing a psychologist is a mark of true strength and it's more than many people can bring themselves to do, but what good is that if they're not even discussing your issues?

whatismyname · 23-04-2015 09:06AM

denhaagenite wrote: »

Good on you for asking for the help you know you need. You're a stronger person than I, certainly. But you need to find a psychologist who will actually help you.

Sorry I should have been clearer. Psychologist is quite good, and we make a good fit. But with mental health services it'll boil down to their 'risk assessment' and things that clinically constitute self harm being one of those risk factors.

She's helping me in lots of other ways, but self harm in more clinically defined ways, as opposed to binge eating, is one of the factors, that they see may impact on work done in therapy etc... but I don't see my binge eating as all that different. She sees it as an issue, but not a barrier to therapy as such, and clearly doesn't take it as seriously as if I was still cutting.

Thing is, I don't think she probably realises how much of an issue it is for me, but that's mostly because in among all else I'm dealing with in therapy sessions, added to infrequently sessions are offered, it's probably not the biggest priority, but I think I will raise it again. I only see her every 2 - 3 weeks and there's already so much to deal with in those sessions that I feel it's taking away from, but that's a whole other story in itself.

Just it's frustrating that she'd be quite concerned if I was still cutting myself, but the reason behind my emotional eating are quite similar, and the affects are worse in some ways, so I just don't see it as all that different, but the fact that she seems to see it as better and less risky than cutting is very frustrating.

folamh · 23-04-2015 09:10AM

UCDVet wrote: »

That's a fair point, but given that nearly 50% of everyone is overweight, I think we can generalize somewhat. Certainly, none of what I'm saying would not apply to 'edge cases' who tend to have severe physical or mental issues as a core part of their condition.

Maybe I'm biased here, I know a lot of people (friends, family, myself) who are either overweight or obese....but otherwise healthy. I think these represents most of the overweight and obese people in western cultures. We're the way we are because we choose that lifestyle.

I can go on a diet/exercise regimen and lose weight. And certainly I prefer how I look when I'm less overweight/not overweight. And that causes my self esteem to go up. But after a few months, I realize I'd *rather* not workout today. I'd *rather* go ahead and get a giant tub of popcorn at the movies. So I do. And before long, I'm overweight again. And my self esteem does go down, slightly.

On the other hand, if we want to attribute obesity to serious eating disorders, we'd need an explanation for what has caused this massive spike in serious eating disorders in our population over the last few decades. I think it's far more likely (and many studies support this) that we're simply eating more calories and doing less activity.

Do you think after reading whatismyname's post that he/she is overweight simply because they choose that lifestyle? And do you think drug addicts are the way they are simply because they choose to take substances instead of not taking them?

Chloris · 23-04-2015 09:11AM

My BMI is also fine. I might be exaggerating a teeny bit (?) (am I?)

I'm not, and never have I been, weight conscious. I come from a weird background in that when i was a teenager, I was malnourished and dangerously underweight because my family was weird. Then I discovered the joys of cooking and eating food. Now I eat three square meals a day.

My body responds by going 'yes! Well done! More of that!'. So no, I'm not a f*cking page 3 girl. But at the same time, I'm glad I discovered food, because it's as important in my life now as music or sex. I doubt it'll kill me, but I can't be sure, because cancer or heart disease is equally likely to kill me as fricking obesity is.

Just stop giving a sh1t about your sh1tty body and eventually your body will just be what you want it to be...

whatismyname · 23-04-2015 09:11AM

folamh wrote: »

Agree with this, whatismyname. Taking pro-active measures like seeing a psychologist is a mark of true strength and it's more than many people can bring themselves to do, but what good is that if they're not even discussing your issues?

Sorry, but I don't know where the implication came from that 'they're not discussing my issues came from, and it was not what I said at all.

What I said was

I love how my psychologist does not seem to take my food problem as seriously as if I was still cutting myself, even though it probably affects me more.

So can you please note that this is very different from 'they are not discussing my issues.

I have many, many issues, emotional eating not even being the main one, as the emotional eating is not the primary issue, but it is the (unhealthy) coping strategy as a result of the issues. The emotions are the primary issue, and they are more than being talked about. The therapy takes the form of focusing on the issues, not just the symptoms (i.e. the emotions that are being fed, rather than the act of feeding them), getting to the foot of the problem.

So, the issues are very much being talked about, but I still never implied or said they weren't - just that she doesn't take the eating problem as seriously as if I was still cutting myself, even though I think it affects me more.

]That is very different from saying that my psychologist doesn't talk about my issues - and it may easily have been the case that we talk about it a lot, just that she still doesn't take it as seriously as my past cutting.

Edit: as an aside, I'm actually considering asking if there's something within mental health services who can provide some help with the emotional eating, rather than just the emotions. Practical stuff, but not just telling me all about food and healthy eating, and what to do (which I already know), like the gym class did - practical stuff, but practical stuff related to the emotions. I don't hold out much hope, given how hard it is to get any help, and how stretched services are etc, but can only ask, I suppose.

folamh · 23-04-2015 09:13AM

By the way, the spike in eating disorders doesn't encompass binge-eaters and compulsive over-eaters only. In the past three years, the number of British teens seeking help for anorexia increased by 110%. I'd imagine that increase has little to do with them eating more calories and doing less activity.

Cienciano · 23-04-2015 09:15AM

CarpeDiem85 wrote: »

I can observe that I want to observe. I can have my own views and opinions, just like you can. I'm not going through a whole thread word for word to quote this and quote that. I have better things to do with my time.

Ah, so you were talking complete shíte. Thought so

Shenshen · 23-04-2015 09:23AM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

To be honest, her brief mention of very small sizes just seems like tokenism, most of her focus is on the larger sizes.

Oh, and the media is not normalising obesity. You see the odd cosmetic ad cynically trying to cash in on "real" women but for the most part, the ideal pushed in almost every sphere of the media is slender is good, slender is ideal.

As for what the high street stocks, well, they're stocking what sells. Believe me, if they over-order the size 22s, nobody is going to try to fatten up to fit into the surplus. The shops order accordingly for the current buying public. Size 22 (for example) is never to be a goal for people to aspire to.

Well, it was for me when I was a size 26

But I agree with your post. High street will only react to demand, and will stock sizes that the public actually buys.
You could set up a shop and only stock size 8, you'd be out of business soon enough.

CarpeDiem85 · 23-04-2015 09:39AM

Cienciano wrote: »

Ah, so you were talking complete shíte. Thought so

I don't have to do much talking, the facts and figures are doing the talking for me! They are absolutely shameful and an absolute disgrace. Personal responsibility will go a long way but judging by this thread, I won't hold much hope.

One eyed Jack · 23-04-2015 10:01AM

Shenshen wrote: »

Well, it was for me when I was a size 26

But I agree with your post. High street will only react to demand, and will stock sizes that the public actually buys.
You could set up a shop and only stock size 8, you'd be out of business soon enough.

I dunno, Oasis seem to be around a long time now, don't think I've ever seen them stock any more than a size 10...

Yeah I really don't get the whole "normalising obesity" argument myself. People throughout history were all sorts of shapes and sizes, it's just that now, with the 'casting a wider net' so to speak over the population - people are exposed to more than just their own insular 'way it's always been for me' mindset, so they're starting to see people who were, for the most part, largely invisible in society.

The demand was always there for fashionable styles for people who are overweight (even those adults who are underweight there's a demand for fashionable clothing and style, and I've no doubt they'll be the next 'acceptance movement'), it's simply that not too many retailers were willing to take that risk, because being overweight was, and still is, socially unacceptable.

Thing is though, the internet in the same way as it's giving women a false perspective of what a woman should look like, it's also giving other women a false sense of self-esteem and allowing, encouraging them, supporting them, in their EDNOS. I watched that programme referred to earlier in the thread the other night, and Tess Munster has a massive following of young women who use her as their role model. The difference being though that they ain't never gonna be Tess Munster. She's one in a billion. Most of her 'followers' on social media when you get underneath their skin have crippling self-esteem and insecurity issues.

That's why I feel that the likes of "Yours" and so on, they're not meeting a demand, they're creating a market for themselves, and using young women ('beauty bloggers') to sell their clothing and fashions for them. None of the executives interviewed were overweight, and when questioned on whether they actually found these women attractive, or whether they felt in any way that they were exploiting these women, they all seemed very evasive about the issue. They know they're encouraging an unhealthy lifestyle, they just don't care.

Jamelia isn't going to change anyone's opinion with what she said, just like these threads have never changed anyone's opinion - people are going to believe what they want about themselves and it's almost impossible to break that down or get past it, and I don't feel it's right that people are now making money off people who are overweight and encouraging them to stay that way as if society will ever accept people who are overweight. It just doesn't happen, and it's not going to happen, and it shouldn't happen, because all it is, far as I'm concerned, is simply exploiting people for monetary gain.

I like fat women, but I'd rather a woman live longer and had a healthy attitude to life and a healthy lifestyle and was motivated and felt good about herself from inside, rather than being dependent upon society to accept her and approve of her for her appearance, when physical appearances are only temporary, but her mentality and her self-esteem is far more permanent. I'd prefer to see women validated for their brains than their bodies tbh.

23-04-2015 10:04AM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I dunno, Oasis seem to be around a long time now, don't think I've ever seen them stock any more than a size 10...

Oasis do size 6-18

whatismyname · 23-04-2015 10:09AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Oasis do size 6-18

Yep, I think what often happens though is that many shops sell out of bigger sizes quicker cos there's more bigger people, so it feels like they don't stock bigger sizes. Many high street stores as a size 16 to 18 I struggle to find bigger sizes in them, but they are definitely there.

Most often, they're there in the clothes that I don't want, but have sold out quicker in the lovely clothes that I do want - me having fab taste obviously

I haven't shopped in Oasis in years, but I remember getting a fab work suit in it, and I'm certain I was size 14 at the time.

Frito · 23-04-2015 10:57AM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I dunno, Oasis seem to be around a long time now, don't think I've ever seen them stock any more than a size 10...

Yeah I really don't get the whole "normalising obesity" argument myself. People throughout history were all sorts of shapes and sizes, it's just that now, with the 'casting a wider net' so to speak over the population - people are exposed to more than just their own insular 'way it's always been for me' mindset, so they're starting to see people who were, for the most part, largely invisible in society.

The demand was always there for fashionable styles for people who are overweight (even those adults who are underweight there's a demand for fashionable clothing and style, and I've no doubt they'll be the next 'acceptance movement'), it's simply that not too many retailers were willing to take that risk, because being overweight was, and still is, socially unacceptable.

Thing is though, the internet in the same way as it's giving women a false perspective of what a woman should look like, it's also giving other women a false sense of self-esteem and allowing, encouraging them, supporting them, in their EDNOS. I watched that programme referred to earlier in the thread the other night, and Tess Munster has a massive following of young women who use her as their role model. The difference being though that they ain't never gonna be Tess Munster. She's one in a billion. Most of her 'followers' on social media when you get underneath their skin have crippling self-esteem and insecurity issues.

That's why I feel that the likes of "Yours" and so on, they're not meeting a demand, they're creating a market for themselves, and using young women ('beauty bloggers') to sell their clothing and fashions for them. None of the executives interviewed were overweight, and when questioned on whether they actually found these women attractive, or whether they felt in any way that they were exploiting these women, they all seemed very evasive about the issue. They know they're encouraging an unhealthy lifestyle, they just don't care.

Jamelia isn't going to change anyone's opinion with what she said, just like these threads have never changed anyone's opinion - people are going to believe what they want about themselves and it's almost impossible to break that down or get past it, and I don't feel it's right that people are now making money off people who are overweight and encouraging them to stay that way as if society will ever accept people who are overweight. It just doesn't happen, and it's not going to happen, and it shouldn't happen, because all it is, far as I'm concerned, is simply exploiting people for monetary gain.

I like fat women, but I'd rather a woman live longer and had a healthy attitude to life and a healthy lifestyle and was motivated and felt good about herself from inside, rather than being dependent upon society to accept her and approve of her for her appearance, when physical appearances are only temporary, but her mentality and her self-esteem is far more permanent. I'd prefer to see women validated for their brains than their bodies tbh.

This bolded part is the flip side of Jamelia's argument, which I dont think she has considered.
From a pop-psychological perspective, we could argue that segregating plus sizes from the High st means that overweight and obese people are not socialised around average sized clothing, and therefore have no motivation to lose weight.
So the lack of exposure to average sized clothing also normalises obesity.

whatismyname · 23-04-2015 11:06AM

Frito wrote: »

This bolded part is the flip side of Jamelia's argument, which I dont think she has considered.
From a pop-psychological perspective, we could argue that segregating plus sizes from the High st means that overweight and obese people are not socialised around average sized clothing, and therefore have no motivation to lose weight.
So the lack of exposure to average sized clothing also normalises obesity.

What's this 'average sized clothing' we're talking of? I have not seen it mentioned before, so thought I'd ask. What is 'average sized'?

According to https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/11/20/size-12-britains-ideal-dress-size/ as one example, the average female dress size in the UK is 16 - which of course is 'plus size'.

So I've no idea what the average sized clothing thing you're meaning is but average sized seems to be plus sized. Not the higher end of plus sized, but plus size all the same.

Medusa22 · 23-04-2015 11:16AM

I agree with other posters who say that Jamelia is a has-been who is trying to generate some controversy. I used to be a size 18-20 and there was never a time that I thought that obesity was being 'normalised', and I felt ashamed enough of my size without others pontificating to me about eating less and moving more.

I used to read threads like these and feel embarrassed, and I used to read articles on obesity and the drain it is on society and I would feel embarrassed, and also the comments sections in online newspapers would be full of vitriol for ''fatties''. The only shops I could really go to were Dunnes, Penneys, New Look and Evans. Most high street shops were not an option for me and if I went shopping with friends I knew that I could just admire the clothes and never fit into them. After a day of feeling uncomfortable outside, feeling as if people are judging me and feeling uncomfortable eating in public so I would try to avoid it, I would go home and eat a massive chocolate bar to comfort myself. I am an emotional eater, I have lost four and a half stone and I am now a size 12-14, sometimes a 16 depending on shops.

I still have days when I feel unhappy and I binge eat, some people go for a run or some people have a drink and this is how I deal with my issues. I spend a lot of time feeling an urge to eat even though I'm not hungry and I dedicate a lot of energy to trying to ignore it and not eat anything, but if the stress or the urge becomes too much then I do eat. I exercise more than ever and I eat more healthily than I ever have and I am so happy to no longer feel embarrassed in the supermarket or when I go to a restaurant and it is such a nice feeling to go to an ordinary high street shop and I know I can find something that fits me.

However, I will always have to battle that fat girl inside me who wants a chocolate bar or 10, and I will always know I have the pressure of society judging me if I gain so much weight again.

nokia69 · 23-04-2015 11:23AM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The demand was always there for fashionable styles for people who are overweight (even those adults who are underweight there's a demand for fashionable clothing and style, and I've no doubt they'll be the next 'acceptance movement'), it's simply that not too many retailers were willing to take that risk, because being overweight was, and still is, socially unacceptable.

not really

true there always have been fat people and always will be, but not on the same scale as today

look at pictures or videos from the 80s or 90s very few if any fat people, when I went to school we thought we had one fat lad in the class, but looking back at the pictures he was just taller than average, next to the fat kids today he would be skinny

shops only stock what there is a market for (try buying shoes over a certain size) and the fat market is growing every year

how many underweight adults in the country, almost zero

One eyed Jack · 23-04-2015 11:27AM

whatismyname wrote: »

What's this 'average sized clothing' we're talking of? I have not seen it mentioned before, so thought I'd ask. What is 'average sized'?

According to https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/11/20/size-12-britains-ideal-dress-size/ as one example, the average female dress size in the UK is 16 - which of course is 'plus size'.

So I've no idea what the average sized clothing thing you're meaning is but average sized seems to be plus sized. Not the higher end of plus sized, but plus size all the same.

That's the difference between aspiration and reality. Most people's impression of 'average' is a size 10, but that's more an aspiration than it is a reality, and that's why terms like "plus size" are utterly meaningless, because they tell us nothing about averages, and everything about individuals, because every individuals idea of "plus size" is going to vary greatly, based on their own perception, or their own standards.

That's why I hate terms like "plus size" and "fuller figure", because you or anyone else has no idea of what my perception of "plus size" or "fuller figure" actually is, and even then it can vary greatly from anywhere between a size 12 to a size 26 or whatever. It all depends on so many other variables, the same way as that "over 50's" fashions. Do all women over 50 have the same figure? Of course they don't.

I really don't know who comes up with these ideas, but they don't help anyone IMO. They have absolutely no meaning because there's no definitive standard from which to measure what actually is "average".

One eyed Jack · 23-04-2015 11:42AM

nokia69 wrote: »

not really

true there always have been fat people and always will be, but not on the same scale as today

look at pictures or videos from the 80s or 90s very few if any fat people, when I went to school we thought we had one fat lad in the class, but looking back at the pictures he was just taller than average, next to the fat kids today he would be skinny

There were always fat people, on the same scale today as ever before, it's just that nowadays at the same time as society is becoming more and more health and lifestyle conscious, and more awareness and information is being made available about health and lifestyle choices, at the same time, the internet is giving more and more people the opportunity to band together in a community like never before (I couldn't find someone I could relate to 20 years ago within a 20 mile radius, nowadays I can go on the internet and within 20 minutes I can feel like someone understands me even though they may be thousands of miles away - acceptance and validation of me as a person - result!).

shops only stock what there is a market for (try buying shoes over a certain size) and the fat market is growing every year

Yes, because the market is growing, and if they spotted a gap in the market for Krusty the clown shoes, they'd exploit that too and market Krusty shoes as the thing to be seen in.

how many underweight adults in the country, almost zero

Ehh, not sure if you're underplaying there, but there are a frightening number of underweight adults in just Ireland alone, and what's becoming more obvious if you actually look at the statistics is that the number of men with ED are increasing at an exponential rate year on year as opposed to the rate of ED in women which is a more gradual increase, but at the same time, still increasing.

fleet_admiral · 23-04-2015 11:43AM

Tigger wrote: »

The only thing worse than a fatty is a fatty in clothes too tight
So no feck that

10 pound of shite in a 5 pound bag

nokia69 · 23-04-2015 11:44AM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I really don't know who comes up with these ideas, but they don't help anyone IMO. They have absolutely no meaning because there's no definitive standard from which to measure what actually is "average".

how to calculate the average is well understood

In colloquial language, an average is the sum of a list of numbers divided by the number of numbers in the list. In mathematics and statistics, this would be called the arithmetic mean. However, the word average may also refer to the median, mode, or other central or typical value.

nokia69 · 23-04-2015 11:51AM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Ehh, not sure if you're underplaying there, but there are a frightening number of underweight adults in just Ireland alone, and what's becoming more obvious if you actually look at the statistics is that the number of men with ED are increasing at an exponential rate year on year as opposed to the rate of ED in women which is a more gradual increase, but at the same time, still increasing.

bull****

in my entire life I have only ever seen 3 people with anorexia and I almost never see people, male or female, that are under weight

I will be in Dublin city centre today and I bet I don't see one person who is under weight, but we all know I will see countless people who are obese

an exponential rate LOL

One eyed Jack · 23-04-2015 11:54AM

nokia69 wrote: »

how to calculate the average is well understood

So if I were to say to you I'm a "plus size" guy, what good is that in telling you what size I actually am?

Even depending on whether you're American or European, your perception is going to vary greatly, because other criteria apply in your statistical analysis. One person's perception of average, is another person's perception of over or underweight, and you're not going to be able to determine that from figures on a spreadsheet, because the data is simply hampered by sample size for one thing among a load of other criteria.

nokia69 · 23-04-2015 11:57AM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

There were always fat people, on the same scale today as ever before

this is just not true

Calina · 23-04-2015 11:58AM

nokia69 wrote: »

bull****

in my entire life I have only ever seen 3 people with anorexia and I almost never see people, male or female, that are under weight

I will be in Dublin city centre today and I bet I don't see one person who is under weight, but we all know I will see countless people who are obese

an exponential rate LOL

Are you familiar with the words "confirmation bias at all"?

I live in Dublin and am often enough in the city centre. I see plenty of extremely thin people. Men and women.

It's not that they are not there; it is that you just don't notice them. You might also want to bear in mind that people may have anorexia and you just see it because they are not thin enough for you to see it yet. Plus, you're too busy looking for overweight people.

nokia69 · 23-04-2015 11:59AM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

So if I were to say to you I'm a "plus size" guy, what good is that in telling you what size I actually am?

its a nice way to avoid saying you're fat

One eyed Jack · 23-04-2015 12:00PM

nokia69 wrote: »

bull****

in my entire life I have only ever seen 3 people with anorexia and I almost never see people, male or female, that are under weight

Because your sample size is too small for one thing, secondly because you're basing your ideas on your own individual perception, and thirdly - probably because they're wearing clothes, so you're not going to see a whole lot of what's going on underneath.

I will be in Dublin city centre today and I bet I don't see one person who is under weight, but we all know I will see countless people who are obese

I'll take that bet, nothing wrong with women in Dublin!

an exponential rate LOL

Well if you're going to tell me how to calculate averages, I'm sure you already have a basic understanding of how statistical analysis works and you know what an exponential growth rate year on year actually means.

Jamelia: 'High street shops shouldn't sell plus size clothing'

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