Assault on Paul Deaton

Bobby Baccala · 18-04-2015 01:36AM

petrolcan wrote: »

The only question I would ask is: if it happened to a 'normal' 31 year old who like diggers, would you have sent the same email?

A "normal" 31 year old wouldn't be deemed basically defenceless unlike Paul

Knex* · 18-04-2015 01:36AM

petrolcan wrote: »

The only question I would ask is: if it happened to a 'normal' 31 year old who like diggers, would you have sent the same email?

Oh for **** sake. There truly is always one.

Joeseph Balls · 18-04-2015 01:38AM

petrolcan wrote: »

The only question I would ask is: if it happened to a 'normal' 31 year old who like diggers, would you have sent the same email?

I think you know the answer to your question, but you're just being a dick.
*dodges incoming ban bullet*
*gets hit:( *

foggy_lad · 18-04-2015 01:39AM

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I have the most wonderful mother in law (yes I know that's an oxymoron). From Kerry - I mean proper went to school on a horse Co. Kerry who spent 40 years working in social services in Liverpool and Manchester. Still one of the nicest people you could ever meet. There is also someone I've worked with and who taught me that is an absolute wagon when she wants to be, which is most of the time, very middle class, well educated, highly intelligent I know that works on the legal side.

Both of these people have recounted stories, partly prompted by my career change that have literally reduced me to tears. How it's not turned both of them into very maladjusted human beings is beyond me.

Lets just put it this way, when you're constantly beaten, humiliated and abused at home on a daily basis I can see how you might consider even something a heinous as this to be 'a laugh'. They're picking on someone unable to defend themselves, some one vulnerable. Pretty much what's been done to them all their lives probably.

I'm not trying to excuse or justify it for one second. Frankly I'd love an Iron bar and 15 minutes alone with their parents in a locked room. But as I say I have a tiny measure moderation with the perpetrators.

@Foggy - you don't do something like this unless you're damaged yourself. You don't have to be poor to be damaged of course I grant you. I also concede that the vast majority of people that grew up in abject poverty wouldn't ever stoop to this level.

There is nothing at all wrong with these toerags that a dam good kicking wouldn't cure! the problem is that they have never seen hardship or deprivation and have never been thought how to respect others and their property. They have been let off lightly all their lives and will be let off this time too! this is not new to Ireland either, just look at the murderer that was hiding out in the home of the attorney general some years ago!

Whatever your mother in law Aunt or other older persons might have seen and heard of when they were working in England many years ago there is absolutely no evidence that these reprobates have had anything but a privileged life and existence up to now yet they beat this man to a pulp threatened to rape him and tried to set him on fire!

Trying to paint them as anything but the dregs of humanity is basically saying that what they did is acceptable to you. IT doesn't matter that the person they beat and kicked in the head after beating him to the ground had some intellectual disability because these yokes behaved just like wild animals in a pack and attacked the weaker in society and it could be you or yours next! these young lads will happily take on a grown man because it is three or four or five against one and they will come out on top, they have no fear of society or the law and are behaving like animals so they should must be caged like animals for the good of society at large!

MarkAnthony · 18-04-2015 01:45AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

There is nothing at all wrong with these toerags that a dam good kicking wouldn't cure! the problem is that they have never seen hardship or deprivation and have never been thought how to respect others and their property. They have been let off lightly all their lives and will be let off this time too! this is not new to Ireland either, just look at the murderer that was hiding out in the home of the attorney general some years ago!

Whatever your mother in law Aunt or other older persons might have seen and heard of when they were working in England many years ago there is absolutely no evidence that these reprobates have had anything but a privileged life and existence up to now.

Trying to paint them as anything but the dregs of humanity is basically saying that what they did is acceptable to you. IT doesn't matter that the person they beat and kicked in the head after beating him to the ground had some intellectual disability because these yokes behaved just like wild animals in a pack and attacked the weaker in society and it could be you or yours next! these young lads will happily take on a grown man because it is three or four or five against one and they will come out on top, they have no fear of society or the law and are behaving like animals so they should must be caged like animals for the good of society at large!

Foggy, sometimes I wish the world was as simple and black and white as you see it. The fact is a kicking is what they've probably had most days for most of their lives. The second person I mentioned is a barrister of approximately my age working in Ireland. Not that, that will make the slightest difference to you. My only concern is that because of views, such as the one you express above, politicians see no votes in actually tackling the social issues that leads to this.

They do indeed need to be taught respect, that will have to start with themselves and won't ever be done by a kicking.

Cold War Kid · 18-04-2015 01:52AM

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I've worked in the field of intellectual disability for 25 years and the depths to which kids will sink to to get their kicks, in making a vulnerable adult suffer for laughs, is all too common.

Not just kids I'd say. I cringe intensely when I hear adults, who should know better, saying awful things about disabled people.

foggy_lad wrote: »

the problem is that they have never seen hardship or deprivation and have never been thought how to respect others and their property.

You don't know that they have never seen hardship or deprivation - having a crap upbringing is the very thing that can cause people not to be taught how to respect others and their property. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging this - it does not take the responsibility away from them, if anything it's good to have perspective of the bigger picture so that any environmental causes can be tackled.

Trying to paint them as anything but the dregs of humanity is basically saying that what they did is acceptable to you.

Why do you keep saying this? No it doesn't. In my opinion, if all children had a decent upbringing there would be far less crime. There wouldn't be zero crime, because some people are just horrible, but there would be much much less.

hatrickpatrick · 18-04-2015 01:59AM

The attack has been condemned by Lord Mayor of Dublin Christy Burke.

"I sincerely hope this is an isolated incident," he said. "Are we getting to the stage where we need to put in park rangers to patrol the park?"

Pig-ignorant comments like this seriously piss me off. Everyone knows Dublin has a serious scumbag problem and those in power have consistently failed to do literally anything at all about it.

Stop jailing people for petty, non violent bullsh!t until there are some empty cells left over after every single gobsh!te who's ever attacked some random stranger for the craic has been locked up. My guess is we'll have to build more prisons just to accommodate everyone who falls under that particular umbrella, but nothing pisses me off more than to see people being jailed over petty crap while violent scumbags with fifty bajillion previous convictions get suspended sentences. :mad:

foggy_lad · 18-04-2015 02:00AM

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Foggy, sometimes I wish the world was as simple and black and white as you see it. The fact is a kicking is what they've probably had most days for most of their lives. The second person I mentioned is a barrister of approximately my age working in Ireland. Not that, that will make the slightest difference to you. My only concern is that because of views, such as the one you express above, politicians see no votes in actually tackling the social issues that leads to this.

They do indeed need to be taught respect, that will have to start with themselves and won't ever be done by a kicking.

so because one person in the British welfare services many many years ago and another a barrister who sees these cases all at once tell it then we are all to believe what these wee scamps tell us about how daddy gave them a few slaps when they did something wrong? Jesus I'd hate to be relying on that attitude for law and order, no wonder these toerags never get jailed, the bloody legal profession are getting too many €1000 a day sessions from attending to hear about bail then probation reports being ordered then to hear the results then for sentencing and to hear they get off with a slap on the wrist!

If they were jailed and actually deprived of all the stuff the steal from the more vulnerable in society(their playstations phones stolen bikes and other goods) they might end up more grateful for their freedom and more respectful of the way normal people work to get stuff and look after theri things because they know they can't just steal more!

Stick them into a bootcamp with a few hard talking "hard bastards" and you will see them change from absolute scum to respectful decent members of society

Kermit.de.frog · 18-04-2015 02:05AM

Isn't it amazing that these bastards will soon be dole dependent and you, me and everyone else will soon be paying to keep a roof over their heads, the poor divils (if we aren't already). Sums the country up. There is no genuine justice in Ireland for people like this. Even if they are caught.

And the parents of these thugs - not too much of a stretch to think it's scum raring scum.

The OP is very nice but lets be real - we don't have a proper police force, we don't have proper punishment and accountability for any criminality in this country and we have judges that are so obviously deluded and out of touch as to what ordinary people have to tolerate on a daily basis in many communities in our cities in particular. These incidents are inevitable when the perpetrators know they do it with immunity.

hatrickpatrick · 18-04-2015 02:06AM

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Not just kids I'd say. I cringe intensely when I hear adults, who should know better, saying awful things about disabled people.

You don't know that they have never seen hardship or deprivation - having a crap upbringing is the very thing that can cause people not to be taught how to respect others and their property. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging this - it does not take the responsibility away from them, if anything it's good to have perspective of the bigger picture so that any environmental causes can be tackled.

Why do you keep saying this? No it doesn't. In my opinion, if all children had a decent upbringing there would be far less crime. There wouldn't be zero crime, because some people are just horrible, but there would be much much less.

I have the greatest sympathy for people living in poverty, and where I tend to hang out in Dublin at the moment I'm surrounded by sad and heartbreaking reminders of it. But you're talking as if every human being is born sadistic and has to have it "taught" out of them. Everyone, no matter what background they come from, has the ability to understand that causing suffering to another person intentionally is wrong. In order for your argument to work, every single person brought up on a drug-ridden council estate would turn into a monster, yet the vast majority of them do not.

I have a great amount of sympathy for the impoverished. I have, for instance, a lot of sympathy for people who shoplift or sneak onto the bus for free etc because they would die of starvation if they didn't. But nothing excuses violent crime, and more specifically unprovoked and violent crime. This isn't a case of someone stealing money because they're desperate to pay off a debt they'll be murdered over, or someone robbing a convenience store to feed their kids. This isn't even a case of someone committing violence to feed a drug habit, or even someone just stealing money because they're a greedy f*ck.

There was no gain, material or otherwise, for those who attacked this man, except a sadistic enjoyment in seeing another human being suffer. Anyone who finds enjoyment in such things deserves absolutely no sympathy or leniency whatsoever - regardless of their circumstances or where they came from.

MarkAnthony · 18-04-2015 02:15AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

so because one person in the British welfare services many many years ago and another a barrister who sees these cases all at once tell it then we are all to believe what these wee scamps tell us about how daddy gave them a few slaps when they did something wrong? Jesus I'd hate to be relying on that attitude for law and order, no wonder these toerags never get jailed, the bloody legal profession are getting too many €1000 a day sessions from attending to hear about bail then probation reports being ordered then to hear the results then for sentencing and to hear they get off with a slap on the wrist!

If they were jailed and actually deprived of all the stuff the steal from the more vulnerable in society(their playstations phones stolen bikes and other goods) they might end up more grateful for their freedom and more respectful of the way normal people work to get stuff and look after theri things because they know they can't just steal more!

Stick them into a bootcamp with a few hard talking "hard bastards" and you will see them change from absolute scum to respectful decent members of society

I'd accuse you of trolling but unfortunately my time here in various guises with has taught me otherwise. Suffice it to say you have no idea what you're talking about.

The only thing you have even slightly right is time spent under intensive supervision and education is exactly what they need.

MarkAnthony · 18-04-2015 02:17AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

But you're talking as if every human being is born sadistic and has to have it "taught" out of them.

Unfortunately it's relatively easy to teach it into someone though.

To reiterate I completely agree that it's inexcusable, I'd just be a bit more willing to beat the **** out of their parents first.

Kermit.de.frog · 18-04-2015 02:18AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Pig-ignorant comments like this seriously piss me off. Everyone knows Dublin has a serious scumbag problem and those in power have consistently failed to do literally anything at all about it.

Stop jailing people for petty, non violent bullsh!t until there are some empty cells left over after every single gobsh!te who's ever attacked some random stranger for the craic has been locked up. My guess is we'll have to build more prisons just to accommodate everyone who falls under that particular umbrella, but nothing pisses me off more than to see people being jailed over petty crap while violent scumbags with fifty bajillion previous convictions get suspended sentences. :mad:

Same guy walked up O'Connell Street a few months back on an RTE report about the infestation of junkies and scumbaggery and said it was grand.

It's with that you know nothing will change.

foggy_lad · 18-04-2015 02:19AM

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I'd accuse you of trolling but unfortunately my time here in various guises with has taught me otherwise. Suffice it to say you have no idea what you're talking about.

were you here before as someone else? did you get banned?

The only thing you have even slightly right is time spent under intensive supervision and education is exactly what they need.

Jail is what they need! lock them up and feed them just enough that they don't die.

foggy_lad · 18-04-2015 02:22AM

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Unfortunately it's relatively easy to teach it into someone though.

To reiterate I completely agree that it's inexcusable, I'd just be a bit more willing to beat the **** out of their parents first.

You'd want to go back in time to before their scum children were born and sterilise the parents instead of beating them up otherwise your just closing the stable door a few years too late!

MarkAnthony · 18-04-2015 02:24AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

were you here before as someone else? did you get banned?

Rest easy soldier, people who need to know who I was e.g. Gordon know.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Jail is what they need! lock them up and feed them just enough that they don't die.

Until when? Indefinitely? Who's going to pay for it? Or are you just in favour of harsh sentences with a definite end date, what do we do then?

You can compare two systems, the US on the one hand and the Scandinavian model on the other. One has mass shooting, massive crime problems and huge differences between the richest and poorest in society. The other does not. Ya think the yanks are failing due to lack of money or not trying hard enough?

RedemptionZ · 18-04-2015 02:25AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

were you here before as someone else? did you get banned?

Jail is what they need! lock them up and feed them just enough that they don't die.

You realise that with that attitude you'd be doing nothing to actually prevent the crime from happening? The problems begin BEFORE the crime happens not after, I don't understand how people never see this. If there was an intervention on these kids before(and you can bet this isn't their first time being a bit bold) then this attack mightn't have happened. India has a hell of a harsher judicial system and yet there is a gang rape epidemic there.

Most effective prison systems I believe are in Norway where the prisoners are treated well. The purpose of a prison is and always should be rehabilitation.

foggy_lad · 18-04-2015 02:28AM

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Rest easy soldier, people who need to know who I was e.g. Gordon know.

Until when? Indefinitely? Who's going to pay for it? Or are you just in favour of harsh sentences with a definite end date, what do we do then?

You can compare two systems, the US on the one hand and the Scandinavian model on the other. One has mass shooting, massive crime problems and huge differences between the richest and poorest in society. The other does not. Ya think the yanks are failing due to lack of money or not trying hard enough?

WEll a sentence of minimum two years(actual time served) for a serious violent unprovoked assault would be ok for 18-22 year olds and anyone under 18 gets held till they reach 18 wher they are sentenced, and they all undergo sterilization so they can't breed more animal bastards

Smidge · 18-04-2015 02:32AM

I come from an area that the vast majority of people would consider "undesirable". I dont, and never did, see it that way. I have been called "Pinko, Leftie, Commie" and any other variant of these in my time on boards due to my opinion on social class and poverty. Which most certainly exists, moreso now than ever.
But when I was growing up(I'm almost 40 now)there were always people with mental disabilities about. Now, back then, no one had a diagnosis of x y z, but everyone knew these people were "different" or "not all there" in the turn of phrase of the time. There were also plenty of hardshaws about. Guys NOBODY would mess with. Tough fellas.
They would NEVER have touched someone like Paul. It would have been inconceivable to them. They may have been gangsters and thugs but to do what these animals did to Paul would have earned anyone a clatter or two from them.
Why?
Because for all of their robbing or whatever else, they still knew that there was something inherently low to touch a person like that. For all of their faults, there was still the knowledge of right.
To steal something was one thing...to beat up an "unfortunate" made you a laughing stock and an outcast. Even in their circle.
My point?
Something has changed in our society.
There will always be thieves and poor and "lower classes" (loved someones SW reference :rolleyes:).

Now its just mindless aggression and divil be damned who gets it.
These scrotes dont belong to any social class as social class has feck all to do with what they did.

anto9 · 18-04-2015 02:37AM

There does need to be Park rangers in every park ,in Dublin ,Mr.Lord Mayor.They also need to be fit and skilled in marcial arts .

RedemptionZ · 18-04-2015 02:43AM

Smidge wrote: »

I come from an area that the vast majority of people would consider "undesirable". I dont, and never did, see it that way. I have been called "Pinko, Leftie, Commie" and any other variant of these in my time on boards due to my opinion on social class and poverty. Which most certainly exists, moreso now than ever.
But when I was growing up(I'm almost 40 now)there were always people with mental disabilities about. Now, back then, no one had a diagnosis of x y z, but everyone knew these people were "different" or "not all there" in the turn of phrase of the time. There were also plenty of hardshaws about. Guys NOBODY would mess with. Tough fellas.
They would NEVER have touched someone like Paul. It would have been inconceivable to them.

You're deluded if you don't think kids like that didn't exist in your youth too. It's no doubt a very different environment nowadays a lot more people in one place particularly in Dublin, but an uncle of mine who has special needs was bullied and beaten in school and he's 50 so around a similar time.

Smidge · 18-04-2015 02:55AM

RedemptionZ wrote: »

You're deluded if you don't think kids like that didn't exist in your youth too. It's no doubt a very different environment nowadays a lot more people in one place particularly in Dublin, but an uncle of mine who has special needs was bullied and beaten in school and he's 50 so around a similar time.

I'm not deluded.
I gave my account of what I saw around me. I never mentioned bullying in school. I was talking specifically about physical attacks and beatings in public.
Fwiw, I dont doubt that some schools may have had this happen, sure that can still happen now(bullying of people with disabilities). That was the schools look out and responsibility.
But we were talking about "scum" beating up vulnerable strangers. And social changes.
Different situation. Still disgusting nevertheless.

porsche959 · 18-04-2015 03:08AM

Smidge wrote: »

I'm not deluded.
I gave my account of what I saw around me. I never mentioned bullying in school. I was talking specifically about physical attacks and beatings in public.
Fwiw, I dont doubt that some schools may have had this happen, sure that can still happen now(bullying of people with disabilities). That was the schools look out and responsibility.
But we were talking about "scum" beating up vulnerable strangers. And social changes.
Different situation. Still disgusting nevertheless.

Hate to repeat myself, but:

http://politico.ie/archive/night-they-killed-declan-flynn

Yes, ok, not precisely the same, as this unfortunate was beaten to death for being gay rather than having special needs, but same principle applies.

Lot of romanticisation of the past going on this thread!

Smidge · 18-04-2015 03:16AM

porsche959 wrote: »

Hate to repeat myself, but:

http://politico.ie/archive/night-they-killed-declan-flynn

Yes, ok, not precisely the same, as this unfortunate was beaten to death for being gay rather than having special needs, but same principle applies.

Lot of romanticisation of the past going on this thread!

Romanticism?
I said the guys I was talking about were thugs and robbers! I didnt big them up in any shape way or form.
They were just that.
But for all they were, they knew the LINE. Beating the likes of Paul Deaton was the LINE and it wouldn't have been crossed by them.
The dogs that attacked him are just that. Dogs. Preying on the weak for no reason other than pack mentality and sh!ts and giggles in their empty heads.

The link to the gay attack imo is not all that terribly relevant to this.
Still scum, just a different type.

Thespoofer · 18-04-2015 05:02AM

Very angry now.

petrolcan · 18-04-2015 09:09AM

MarkAnthony wrote: »

There really is 'one' everywhere you go isn't there.

Do you really need it explained to you that the fact the guy, quite obviously, has learning difficulties is a massive aggravating factor. A condition with which you can surely sympathise.

That'll be a no then. Thanks for the personal attack though.

Tipsy McSwagger · 18-04-2015 09:19AM

If any political party put sorting out scumbags as their number one priority they would probably walk the election.

cloud493 · 18-04-2015 09:23AM

Poor sod, seems like a decent bloke and obviously didn't deserve this.
I don't know what the solution to Dublins scumbag problem is per se, but what I can see is that since the Gardai have recently stepped up their 'patrols' in the city centre during the week at least, some levels of relative scumbaggery have decreased. And I'm sure someone said the levels of petty crime have dropped since the increased patrols.

Teyla Emmagan · 18-04-2015 09:44AM

The guards will find these little vicious little scrotes, and they'll be under 18, and nothing whatsoever will be done. There is, to me, something very frightening about these sort of teenagers who know they can't be touched by the law. They have no fear of repercussion and are at the age that they haven't seen enough of life to have any empathy whatsoever. Little pr#cks.

DarkJager · 18-04-2015 09:51AM

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

The guards will find these little vicious little scrotes, and they'll be under 18, and nothing whatsoever will be done. There is, to me, something very frightening about these sort of teenagers who know they can't be touched by the law. They have no fear of repercussion and are at the age that they haven't seen enough of life to have any empathy whatsoever. Little pr#cks.

That's why they should ideally be dealt with by vigilantes who won't really care what age they are.

Assault on Paul Deaton

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