How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

Zubeneschamali · 14-04-2015 05:17PM

Just Be Yourself wrote: »

Lol I ain't even queer.

I'm straight, and will certainly be voting Yes. You don't have to be gay to think gays should have human rights the same as everyone else.

Just Be Yourself · 14-04-2015 05:25PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

OOkaaay...

can't be bothered to vote but is not only engaging in an on-line debate on the topic is also willing to extrapolate that the entire straight male population of Ireland is equally apathetic based on the evidence provided by you own FB newsfeed.

Our country's future is safe!

And 'queer' - no. You don't get to use that word sonny jim.

Lol funny you say that, I actually work in the civil service and could well be running the place one day!

galljga1 · 14-04-2015 05:30PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

No, it's the big, hairy, sword wielding with a few archers, heterosexual, married men, liberal lefty newsfeed. But let's not pigeon hole people.

At least it is not the stoic, cigar-smoking, paper-reading patriarchs who don't care about anything that happens unless it's to do with finance. Hate them.

BoatMad · 14-04-2015 05:32PM

galljga1 wrote: »

At least it is not the stoic, cigar-smoking, paper-reading patriarchs who don't care about anything that happens unless it's to do with finance. Hate them.

why castigate your dad

galljga1 · 14-04-2015 05:33PM

Just Be Yourself wrote: »

Lol funny you say that, I actually work in the civil service and could well be running the place one day!

Highly unlikely.

Trudiha · 14-04-2015 05:53PM

My pre-Constitution, heterosexual father checked today if I'd be giving him a lift into town to vote. I hope he doesn't expect me to get married again.

B_Wayne · 14-04-2015 05:54PM

Just Be Yourself wrote: »

Women usually vote yes on liberal progressive matters. No doubt many men will say they'll vote yes but on the day they won't bother or might even vote no. That's why the women are so important for a yes vote.

I still think it'll pass but it might not be a foregone conclusion just yet.

Straight male here that'll be voting yes, in fact most men in my age group that I know will be voting yes. I give a damn about the rights of others,pretty simple!

Shrap · 14-04-2015 06:23PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

OOkaaay...

can't be bothered to vote but is not only engaging in an on-line debate on the topic is also willing to extrapolate that the entire straight male population of Ireland is equally apathetic based on the evidence provided by you own FB newsfeed.

And here was me being nice to him and giving a pep talk. Never mind, he'll be morto about his *ahem* contribution when he's all growed up.

Just Be Yourself wrote: »

Lol funny you say that, I actually work in the civil service and could well be running the place one day!

Lol? This ain't twitter sonny. And by the hames you just made of your quite valid concern with your subsequent "I'm not voting" and name calling gaffe, I'm not sure you could run a bath for a child.

Just Be Yourself · 14-04-2015 06:33PM

Shrap wrote: »

And here was me being nice to him and giving a pep talk. Never mind, he'll be morto about his *ahem* contribution when he's all growed up.

Lol? This ain't twitter sonny. And by the hames you just made of your quite valid concern with your subsequent "I'm not voting" and name calling gaffe, I'm not sure you could run a bath for a child.

One of the best in my department I'll have you know, also calling someone 'sonny' online?

Bet you feel like a total badass right now!

Bannasidhe · 14-04-2015 06:51PM

Just Be Yourself wrote: »

One of the best in my department I'll have you know, also calling someone 'sonny' online?

Bet you feel like a total badass right now!

Feeling the need to blow your own trumpet on-line.

Bet you feel moneysupermarket right now.

So, do you have anything of substance to add to this discussion that isn't based on your personal FB feed?

floggg · 14-04-2015 07:00PM

Isabelle Shy Villain wrote: »

There's generally a low voter turnout in this country, particularly amongst younger voters, who generally speaking are more likely to be voting yes if they do vote.

My brother's in college, I was talking to him about this and his attitude was that a Yes victory is a foregone conclusion, because he's living in an echo chamber of Yes votes, and because as a twenty year old with very liberal parents he has feck all comprehension of just how socially conservative a sizeable portion of the electorate still is. He didn't even know if he was on the register! I could easily see him and his peers not bothering on the 22nd, not because they don't believe in marriage equality, but because they don't realise how much their vote matters.

Yes, but as we never saw the same level of engagement by young people on social media and in colleges about the referenda I don't think you can use their ultimate turn out figures to gauge how genuine their expressions of support are.

I would still be worried about turn out levels, but I would expect youth engagement and turn out will be higher on this referendum than any other.

endacl · 14-04-2015 07:06PM

Just Be Yourself wrote: »

Lol funny you say that, I actually work in the civil service and could well be running the place one day!

I've read your contributions on here. I doubt it....

Tell me. Have you ever come across the concept of 'The Peter Principle'? Is your real name Peter, by any chance...?

Flipper22 · 14-04-2015 08:15PM

http://www.independent.ie/style/lookbook/rtes-aengus-ties-knot-with-terry-gill-as-anne-doyle-walks-him-up-the-aisle-30373952.html

I'm not a soppy person, but this really gave me the fuzzies for some reason. Maybe it was the bit about Anne Doyle.

I don't understand why anyone would be mean spirited enough to vote this down.

Moonriver99 · 14-04-2015 09:21PM

Did you guys know there is a facebook group who is actually sending out groups to post leaflets about 'the importance of voting no.' It's terrible really, one of the reasons is obviously it will change this perfect 'family unit ' of mother and father. They brought up a point which was that if we vote no we will open the doors for sperm donations and children growing up without a father etc. what's laughable is this? What about for example a man and a woman who are reproductively challenged and need to use a sperm donor? Are they denied the right for children too! I challenged them with this and they removed my comment. As far as I'm concerned is that life forever changes. A child could lose a parent young, or they could be in a family that is abusive. Or the parents divorce,

Look, the family unit for me is a strong loving one that is not defined by gender. It's about someone looking out for you through out your life and helping you through your darkest moments. I'd hate to think of a child in poverty, or in an abusive household. Those kids would rather be with even one person or a gay person then live a miserable life. That is the truth.

jobbridge4life · 14-04-2015 09:25PM

floggg wrote: »

Yes, but as we never saw the same level of engagement by young people on social media and in colleges about the referenda I don't think you can use their ultimate turn out figures to gauge how genuine their expressions of support are.

I would still be worried about turn out levels, but I would expect youth engagement and turn out will be higher on this referendum than any other.

I hope so. I really do but I can't count the amount of straight friends I have heard give fairly impassioned rants about why equal marriage is of course the right thing and that obviously my partner and I ought to be able to solemnize our relationship. Then I ask if they are registered to vote...:(

Bridge93 · 14-04-2015 09:27PM

Had the pleasure this morning of a No campaigner calling to my road. I got huge enjoyment from getting to tear up her leaflet and telling her I has no interest in hearing her rubbish before closing the door.

Trudiha · 14-04-2015 09:51PM

Bridge93 wrote: »

Had the pleasure this morning of a No campaigner calling to my road. I got huge enjoyment from getting to tear up her leaflet and telling her I has no interest in hearing her rubbish before closing the door.

If they call again and you have the time will you please, please, please keep them at the door for as long as possible. Keep asking them questions about what they're saying, get as many copies of their pamphlets as possible, claim to be part of a group that you want to disseminate them to and even ask them for a lift to the polling station, if you can get away with it.

The more of their resources you can use up, the less of their bile and hatred they have for the undecided and easily led.

xrp · 14-04-2015 09:58PM

Trudiha wrote: »

If they call again and you have the time will you please, please, please keep them at the door for as long as possible. Keep asking them questions about what they're saying, get as many copies of their pamphlets as possible, claim to be part of a group that you want to disseminate them to and even ask them for a lift to the polling station, if you can get away with it.

The more of their resources you can use up, the less of their bile and hatred they have for the undecided and easily led.

These kinds of comments actually weaken the YES side's position.

Bullying people into agreeing with you is a recipe for failure. It happened with the Seanad referendum (opinion polls were >70% YES) and could very easily happen again with gay people and their supporters putting people off with cult-like statements and behaviours.

There is a lot of moral hysteria going on on both sides and I find the country is not a particularly pleasant place to live in at the moment with people going around trying to weed out each other. Any hint of disagreement and colleagues no longer speak, friends are lost and families hurt.

Flem31 · 14-04-2015 10:05PM

Bridge93 wrote: »

Had the pleasure this morning of a No campaigner calling to my road. I got huge enjoyment from getting to tear up her leaflet and telling her I has no interest in hearing her rubbish before closing the door.

I couldn't do that to another person no matter how much I disagreed with them or how objectionable I found their views. For me, a simple thank you, but no thank you and hand back the leaflet.

Ironic that this referendum is about equality really.

Moonriver99 · 14-04-2015 10:12PM

Bridge93 wrote: »

Had the pleasure this morning of a No campaigner calling to my road. I got huge enjoyment from getting to tear up her leaflet and telling her I has no interest in hearing her rubbish before closing the door.

I'd love them to call to my house. I would just tear apart everything they say because while it's easy debate online, I'd def know what to do to shut them up

Bridge93 · 14-04-2015 10:14PM

Flem31 wrote: »

I couldn't do that to another person no matter how much I disagreed with them or how objectionable I found their views. For me, a simple thank you, but no thank you and hand back the leaflet.

Ironic that this referendum is about equality really.

I should clarify that I didn't tear it up in front her merely tore it up and threw it in the bin when she was gone. They give me a leaflet I see no problem in doing what I like with it. It's not 'their leaflet' anymore, so in the bin it went. I don't want to have any part in them spreading their message. They have a right to do so but I won't be a part of it, and I see one less leaflet as an incredibly small part of that.
I told her i had no interest, she insisted on trying to continue so I closed the door. It's my property and they're trespassing at that point so good luck to them, I'll close the door in her face if I wish.

Moonriver99 · 14-04-2015 10:17PM

xrp wrote: »

These kinds of comments actually weaken the YES side's position.

Bullying people into agreeing with you is a recipe for failure. It happened with the Seanad referendum (opinion polls were >70% YES) and could very easily happen again with gay people and their supporters putting people off with cult-like statements and behaviours.

There is a lot of moral hysteria going on on both sides and I find the country is not a particularly pleasant place to live in at the moment with people going around trying to weed out each other. Any hint of disagreement and colleagues no longer speak, friends are lost and families hurt.

Agree with this. While I could go crazy at them it just really shows me up tht I let them get to me. It's close to my heart. I'm not gay but I've family members and they are great people who contribute to society in many ways. I do have one uncle who I know is uncomfortable about the gay community but I haven't ambushed him, I've listened to him and tried to understand his reservations and not force it down his throat that it's narrow minded. Let's be fair, he comes from a different generation. He says he will think about it, he's a nice fella too and I wouldn't be mad at him for not feeling comfortable although I disagree with him.

Moonriver99 · 14-04-2015 10:21PM

Bridge93 wrote: »

I should clarify that I didn't tear it up in front her merely tore it up and threw it in the bin when she was gone. They give me a leaflet I see no problem in doing what I like with it. It's not 'their leaflet' anymore, so in the bin it went. I don't want to have any part in them spreading their message. They have a right to do so but I won't be a part of it, and I see one less leaflet as an incredibly small part of that.
I told her i had no interest, she insisted on trying to continue so I closed the door. It's my property and they're trespassing at that point so good luck to them, I'll close the door in her face if I wish.

You are def entitled to your opinion. You do what feels right. I say I'd be calm one minute but if they did come to my door I go with how I feel in the moment.

who knows. I'd def be ready to debate it with them as it's only fair but if they are still dogmatic about it...leave them off.

galljga1 · 14-04-2015 10:22PM

xrp wrote: »

These kinds of comments actually weaken the YES side's position.

Bullying people into agreeing with you is a recipe for failure. It happened with the Seanad referendum (opinion polls were >70% YES) and could very easily happen again with gay people and their supporters putting people off with cult-like statements and behaviours.

There is a lot of moral hysteria going on on both sides and I find the country is not a particularly pleasant place to live in at the moment with people going around trying to weed out each other. Any hint of disagreement and colleagues no longer speak, friends are lost and families hurt.

Not sure I get your point. This is simply employing common tactics used during any election campaign, no bullying, no cult like statements, no moral hysteria.

Trudiha · 14-04-2015 10:22PM

xrp wrote: »

These kinds of comments actually weaken the YES side's position.

Bullying people into agreeing with you is a recipe for failure. It happened with the Seanad referendum (opinion polls were >70% YES) and could very easily happen again with gay people and their supporters putting people off with cult-like statements and behaviours.

There is a lot of moral hysteria going on on both sides and I find the country is not a particularly pleasant place to live in at the moment with people going around trying to weed out each other. Any hint of disagreement and colleagues no longer speak, friends are lost and families hurt.

I object to the idea that I'm bullying anyone, I'm simply passing on an idea from one of the No campaign's FaceBook pages. It's not an original idea, it happens in most elections around the world. It's a bit of armchair campaigning that all sides do.

It's also a fairly standard practice when an organisation have a weak argument, to try and shut down debate by telling people that they shouldn't state their own view because it's divisive, Is that what you're doing here?

If anyone comes to my door with information from IONA, I will want to know why they are campaigning for an organisation that deliberately misrepresenting research for their own agenda; I don't think that's an unreasonable question to ask, do you?

I'm not in the least bit hysterical and I've seen no hysteria. I've personally not asked anyone how they are going to vote, although as one of the most visible gays in the village, a few people have volunteered that information to me but you are right in thinking that I would judge anyone who thinks that my wife deserves fewer protections than theirs.

aloyisious · 14-04-2015 10:39PM

Just Be Yourself wrote: »

Also very few people are directly affected by the outcome so there will be even less incentive to vote yes. Can't really imagine thousands of straight men voting yes.

There will be thousands of (young) straight men and women voting YES because the U.S.I. are promoting the YES vote on campus across the country. Maynooth is postponing it's planned exams for the 22nd so it's students can vote. A lot of them realise they are, in effect, voting to ensure the approx 08% of their peers who are Gay, Bi, Lesbian or Trans that don't have the right to civil marriage (along with the same percentage of younger teen and pre-teen LGBT people below the marriage age) do get the opportunity to access civil marriage. Most all of the straight students do have a vested interest in voting yes, the interest is called brother, sister, cousin, niece, nephew, friend. That interest is what the NO side are ignoring mention of, cause they don't like people knowing other people truly have the interest of children in mind.

K4t · 14-04-2015 10:45PM

Flem31 wrote: »

I couldn't do that to another person no matter how much I disagreed with them or how objectionable I found their views. For me, a simple thank you, but no thank you and hand back the leaflet.

Ironic that this referendum is about equality really.

Tolerance of intolerance is not tolerance. That's very polite of you but don't think you are morally superior or more sensitive than someone who rips up the leaflet or calls the person out on their views. It's nice to be nice but when someone is canvassing and calling around to people's houses, they bloody well deserve and should expect a response and for people to call them out on their views and exchange criticisms of each other's arguments.

xrp · 14-04-2015 10:54PM

Trudiha wrote: »

I object to the idea that I'm bullying anyone, I'm simply passing on an idea from one of the No campaign's FaceBook pages. It's not an original idea, it happens in most elections around the world. It's a bit of armchair campaigning that all sides do.

It's also a fairly standard practice when an organisation have a weak argument, to try and shut down debate by telling people that they shouldn't state their own view because it's divisive, Is that what you're doing here?

If anyone comes to my door with information from IONA, I will want to know why they are campaigning for an organisation that deliberately misrepresenting research for their own agenda; I don't think that's an unreasonable question to ask, do you?

I'm not in the least bit hysterical and I've seen no hysteria. I've personally not asked anyone how they are going to vote, although as one of the most visible gays in the village, a few people have volunteered that information to me but you are right in thinking that I would judge anyone who thinks that my wife deserves fewer protections than theirs.

Why don't you lock your front gate then? Or wear your politics on your arm and put a little note up saying YES-only campaigners. If a NO campaigner sees that you're so entrenched in your opinion, they will leave pretty sharpish as they'd be wasting their time considering all the undecideds which is where any sensible NO campaigner would be focussing their efforts on.

Anyway, I haven't seen any evidence of these Young Earth Creationist, dinosaur-denying NO campaigners that YES campaigners are so fond of perpetuating myths about.

xrp · 14-04-2015 10:58PM

K4t wrote: »

Tolerance of intolerance is not tolerance. That's very polite of you but don't think you are morally superior or more sensitive than someone who rips up the leaflet or calls the person out on their views. It's nice to be nice but when someone is canvassing and calling around to people's houses, they bloody well deserve and should expect a response and for people to call them out on their views and exchange criticisms of each other's arguments.

If you believe in universal truth (like Catholics do), you don't have this problem. Catholics tolerate all views and treat all humans with compassion and respect - it's the job of followers of Christ to lead people to the truth. Some entrenched gays and gay activists will bring their beliefs to their death beds, but it's important to never give up on the person and never give up on what is right and just.

galljga1 · 14-04-2015 11:06PM

xrp wrote: »

If you believe in universal truth (like Catholics do), you don't have this problem. Catholics tolerate all views and treat all humans with compassion and respect - it's the job of followers of Christ to lead people to the truth. Some entrenched gays and gay activists will bring their beliefs to their death beds, but it's important to never give up on the person and never give up on what is right and just.

David, is that you?
Thank you for your tolerance, I really appreciate it.

No more food for you.

How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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