Ukraine: As it happens.

darkpagandeath · 31-03-2015 05:58PM

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32120644

Dutch broadcaster RTL said this month it had new evidence from a metal fragment found at the crash site that the plane was hit by a surface-to-air missile, launched from a Russian-made Buk.

robindch · 01-04-2015 12:18PM

One year on and Crimea really is becoming part of Russia - gangster capitalism, political repression, brain drain, collapsing economy and the place run by crooks:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2015/03/30/one-year-later-in-crimea-polls-dont-tell-the-whole-story/

Gatling · 01-04-2015 12:28PM

robindch wrote: »

One year on and Crimea really is becoming part of Russia - gangster capitalism, political repression, brain drain, collapsing economy and the place run by crooks:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2015/03/30/one-year-later-in-crimea-polls-dont-tell-the-whole-story/

A school teacher was put on trial for standing too close to a group of people who waved a Ukrainian flag recently.
100,000 have fled the region and yet all Crimea are happy !

Egginacup · 01-04-2015 12:29PM

robindch wrote: »

One year on and Crimea really is becoming part of Russia - gangster capitalism, political repression, brain drain, collapsing economy and the place run by crooks:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2015/03/30/one-year-later-in-crimea-polls-dont-tell-the-whole-story/

I would say that's fair since the US confiscated the assets of several Russian individuals and slapped sanctions on the entire country over something they never did.

Your gangster capitalists in Washington who are confiscating Ukraine's rich agricultural land in order to hand it over to Monsanto can't act like John Gotti and then cry foul when someone else does similar.

Your ilk makes me sick. You kick a dog and then go screaming to animal protection when it bites you back.

:pac:

TerrorFirmer · 01-04-2015 12:50PM

Given that it was suggested on this thread that Amnesty International was merely a puppet being played by Washington when evidenced was produced as to Russia's persecution of Gay people, I don't think anything other than Putin doing a live televised address to the world would convince the loons. But for everyone else.

https://news.vice.com/article/russian-soldiers-have-given-up-pretending-they-are-not-fighting-in-ukraine?utm_source=vicenewsfb

For the past year, the Kremlin has strenuously denied that its troops are supporting pro-Russia rebels in eastern Ukraine — but fighters on the ground are apparently no longer bothering to keep up the farce.

St. Petersburg native Dmitry Sapozhnikov, who went to Ukraine in October to fight alongside the rebels, told the BBC Russian service in a candid interview from Donetsk that Russian military units have played a decisive role in rebel advances, including the operations in February that led to the capture of the transport hub of Debaltseve. Russian officers directly command large military operations in eastern Ukraine, he noted.

"Tanks and Russian units came through the LPR," Sapozhnikov said, referring to the self-declared Luhansk People's Republic on the border with Russia. "But I don't think that this is a secret anymore, everyone admits it, and the Russians admit it.… Thanks to the Russian forces, we're able to take positions quickly. We were located near Debaltseve and thinking, well, we're going to hold them in this encirclement for another month, it will drag on.… But in the end we took it in three days."

darkpagandeath · 01-04-2015 12:51PM

Egginacup wrote: »

I would say that's fair since the US confiscated the assets of several Russian individuals and slapped sanctions on the entire country over something they never did.

Your gangster capitalists in Washington who are confiscating Ukraine's rich agricultural land in order to hand it over to Monsanto can't act like John Gotti and then cry foul when someone else does similar.

Your ilk makes me sick. You kick a dog and then go screaming to animal protection when it bites you back.

:pac:

Err forgive me if I'm wrong but that was ages after The Crimea annexation. Do I need to link the top person saying they planed this in an interview ? And the part we never sent troops in as we already had troops there.

over something they never did

Egginacup · 01-04-2015 01:35PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Err forgive me if I'm wrong but that was ages after The Crimea annexation. Do I need to link the top person saying they planed this in an interview ? And the part we never sent troops in as we already had troops there.

What is your problem with Russian troops already being in Crimea? They were there since 1991 with the permission/agreement of the Kiev government. You keep bringing up Crimea in your incessant bleatings about a Russian invasion of Eastern Ukraine. You're flogging a dead horse dpd.

You manned up a couple of weeks ago and admitted you couldn't provide the proof of the invasion that you kept claiming had happened and now you're back to the same tired old tricks again of trying to call the Crimean return to Russia as an invasion.

As for all these confiscations.....since 90% of Crimeans favour their return-to-Russia status then I can only hazard a guess that whatever confiscations have occurred are basically businesses being taken back off oligarchic thugs who stole them in the first place, much like the scum who Wall Street sent to Russia to scam the Russian people out of so many of their resources when Yeltsin was plastered out of his head half the time and wouldn't have sign his own death warrant had he not been always wasted.

The Washington cabal installed in Kiev have already started lining their pockets with millions so don't start with the faux outrage about reacquisition of Crimean assets.

And the thing that I was talking about the Russians NOT DOING was shooting down MH-17, but they were sanctioned for it nonetheless, again hypocritically without a shred of proof. Just accusations.

darkpagandeath · 01-04-2015 01:39PM

Egginacup wrote: »

What is your problem with Russian troops already being in Crimea? They were there since 1991 with the permission/agreement of the Kiev government. You keep bringing up Crimea in your incessant bleatings about a Russian invasion of Eastern Ukraine. You're flogging a dead horse dpd.

You manned up a couple of weeks ago and admitted you couldn't provide the proof of the invasion that you kept claiming had happened and now you're back to the same tired old tricks again of trying to call the Crimean return to Russia as an invasion.

As for all these confiscations.....since 90% of Crimeans favour their return-to-Russia status then I can only hazard a guess that whatever confiscations have occurred are basically businesses being taken back off oligarchic thugs who stole them in the first place, much like the scum who Wall Street sent to Russia to scam the Russian people out of so many of their resources when Yeltsin was plastered out of his head half the time and wouldn't have sign his own death warrant had he not been always wasted.

The Washington cabal installed in Kiev have already started lining their pockets with millions so don't start with the faux outrage about reacquisition of Crimean assets.

And the thing that I was talking about the Russians NOT DOING was shooting down MH-17, but they were sanctioned for it nonetheless, again hypocritically without a shred of proof. Just accusations.

Do people not get tired of using that when they cant come up with a defence ? Are we back in the late 80s ?

Egginacup · 01-04-2015 10:24PM

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Given that it was suggested on this thread that Amnesty International was merely a puppet being played by Washington when evidenced was produced as to Russia's persecution of Gay people, I don't think anything other than Putin doing a live televised address to the world would convince the loons. But for everyone else.

https://news.vice.com/article/russian-soldiers-have-given-up-pretending-they-are-not-fighting-in-ukraine?utm_source=vicenewsfb

Why do we have to constantly suffer "reports"

Where is the evidence from the most ADVANCED MILITARY and "INTELLIGENCE" / SURVEILLANCE machine in history?

Why can't a country who put a man on the moon nearly 50 years ago not produce any aerial evidence of a Russian invasion of Eastern Ukraine, particularly when the skies over Ukraine AND Russia are open to non-armed reconnaissance aircraft?

You must be really embarrassed about Washington's seemingly dreadful attempts at photographing an invasion.

Egginacup · 01-04-2015 10:26PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Do people not get tired of using that when they cant come up with a defence ? Are we back in the late 80s ?

What people get tired of are baseless assertions and those who make them.

Irish Praetorian · 01-04-2015 10:48PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Why do we have to constantly suffer "reports"

Where is the evidence from the most ADVANCED MILITARY and "INTELLIGENCE" / SURVEILLANCE machine in history?

Why can't a country who put a man on the moon nearly 50 years ago not produce any aerial evidence of a Russian invasion of Eastern Ukraine, particularly when the skies over Ukraine AND Russia are open to non-armed reconnaissance aircraft?

You must be really embarrassed about Washington's seemingly dreadful attempts at photographing an invasion.

http://www.businessinsider.com/nato-satellite-photo-evidence-russia-lying-about-ukraine-2014-8?IR=T

?

Egginacup · 01-04-2015 11:59PM

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

http://www.businessinsider.com/nato-satellite-photo-evidence-russia-lying-about-ukraine-2014-8?IR=T

?

Aw, Jesus!

Bit slow to the party aren't you.

DPD, would you like to do the honours?

Egginacup · 02-04-2015 12:07AM

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

http://www.businessinsider.com/nato-satellite-photo-evidence-russia-lying-about-ukraine-2014-8?IR=T

?

Has a single NATO official put their name to these childish attempts at "high-res" evidence?

Please!

miss tickle · 02-04-2015 12:26AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32120644

All the Ukrainian Armies BUK's are Russian made, are you saying Ukraine shot this Airplane down?

Gatling · 02-04-2015 08:40AM

Jayus an awfull whiff around

darkpagandeath · 02-04-2015 09:17AM

Egginacup wrote: »

What people get tired of are baseless assertions and those who make them.

The phrase "Provocation" is missing when used with “No Proofs”.

Egginacup · 02-04-2015 10:19AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

The phrase "Provocation" is missing when used with “No Proofs”.

So in other words your bag of tricks consists of fabricating a bunch of lies coupled with slogans such as "it's as clear as day...", "there's ample proof...", then run around like a headless chicken making up all sorts of other crap (but not being able to back up any of it) and then when the person at whom you're directing these lies, false assertions and fabrications steps back and says effectively "Look, I can deny what you're saying until I'm blue in the face but you will just continue to lie through your teeth an call ME the liar....soooooo how about you show PROOF to back up what you're saying?"

....and at this point the onus is on you to prove what you say but you've painted yourself into a corner and can't move the argument forward....so you deflect, or just repeat your lies in a different format and think this will work.
I don't know dpd if cognitive dissonance is something that you really fear but it seems like it.

darkpagandeath · 02-04-2015 10:50AM

Egginacup wrote: »

So in other words your bag of tricks consists of fabricating a bunch of lies coupled with slogans such as "it's as clear as day...", "there's ample proof...", then run around like a headless chicken making up all sorts of other crap (but not being able to back up any of it) and then when the person at whom you're directing these lies, false assertions and fabrications steps back and says effectively "Look, I can deny what you're saying until I'm blue in the face but you will just continue to lie through your teeth an call ME the liar....soooooo how about you show PROOF to back up what you're saying?"

....and at this point the onus is on you to prove what you say but you've painted yourself into a corner and can't move the argument forward....so you deflect, or just repeat your lies in a different format and think this will work.
I don't know dpd if cognitive dissonance is something that you really fear but it seems like it.

:pac::pac::pac::pac::D

circadian · 02-04-2015 10:59AM

Reverse reverse psychology.
Now I've seen it all!

snubbleste · 02-04-2015 11:28AM

Russia threatens to use 'nuclear force' over Crimea and the Baltic states

An attempt to return Crimea to Ukraine would be met “forcefully including through the use of nuclear force”.
“the same conditions that existed in Ukraine and caused Russia to take action there” existed in the three Baltic states, which like Ukraine have significant numbers of people who regard themselves as ethnically Russian.
Russia was considering taking steps in the Baltics, but this would most likely be “destabilising actions that would be even harder to trace back to Russia than those of eastern Ukraine”.
“Russia would hope slowly to entice those Russian populations towards Russia without giving Nato a pretext to deploy troops,”

Irish Praetorian · 02-04-2015 01:56PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Has a single NATO official put their name to these childish attempts at "high-res" evidence?

Please!

Brigadier General Nico Tak

Director of the Comprehensive Crisis and Operations Management Centre at Allied Command Operations

Irish Praetorian · 02-04-2015 01:57PM

snubbleste wrote: »

Russia threatens to use 'nuclear force' over Crimea and the Baltic states

According to notes made by an American at a meeting between Russian generals and US officials

Come on people, lets have a bit of source criticism here...

Elmer Blooker · 02-04-2015 02:39PM

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Brigadier General Nico Tak

Director of the Comprehensive Crisis and Operations Management Centre at Allied Command Operations

Here he is reading a prepared statement like an automaton, pity he forgot to show the actual images of those tractors or combine harvesters or whatever the hell they are!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV0FUx5i9eA

darkpagandeath · 02-04-2015 02:44PM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Here he is reading a prepared statement like an automaton, pity he forgot to show the actual images of those tractors or combine harvesters or whatever the hell they are!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV0FUx5i9eA

Yes yes NATO is completely incompetent and cannot identify military hardware especially Russian. Jesus wept.

Elmer Blooker · 02-04-2015 02:55PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yes yes NATO is completely incompetent and cannot identify military hardware especially Russian. Jesus wept.

Probable self support guns in probable firing positions, also probable support vehicles ....... in probable Ukraine courtesy of probable digital globe.......

probably?

http://aco.nato.int/resources/3/images/2014/russia/ukraine_aug/image4.jpg

Gatling · 02-04-2015 02:57PM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Probable self support guns in probable firing positions, also probable support vehicles ....... in probable Ukraine courtesy of probable digital globe.......

probably?

http://aco.nato.int/resources/3/images/2014/russia/ukraine_aug/image4.jpg

Did you add the proable tags yourself

darkpagandeath · 02-04-2015 03:00PM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Probable self support guns in probable firing positions, also probable support vehicles ....... in probable Ukraine courtesy of probable digital globe.......

probably?

http://aco.nato.int/resources/3/images/2014/russia/ukraine_aug/image4.jpg

You know exactly what kind of satellites they have access to, Just because they don't release uber high resolution pictures. Does not mean they don't have them and have identified them. Just like the Russians have not released any.

Elmer Blooker · 02-04-2015 03:03PM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

http://aco.nato.int/resources/3/images/2014/russia/ukraine_aug/image4.jpg

I've just realised that the image I posted is actually in Russia!! :pac:

Rostovskaya oblast;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rostov_Oblast

Irish Praetorian · 02-04-2015 04:11PM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Here he is reading a prepared statement like an automaton, pity he forgot to show the actual images of those tractors or combine harvesters or whatever the hell they are!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV0FUx5i9eA

Right... he's reading a prepared statement wrong, therefore...? Alien holding a laser gun to his head maybe? Or some other glorious conspiracy?

The other images are here btw: http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/photos_112202.htm

Gatling · 02-04-2015 04:13PM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I've just realised that the image I posted is actually in Russia!! :pac:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rostov_Oblast

Fail

Ukraine: As it happens.

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