How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

K4t · 20-03-2015 12:41AM

dublinman1990 wrote: »

the evidence of voting yes.

No evidence needed. Great post.

Those who know that they don't know everything will vote yes, while those who think they know it all will vote no.

Slicemeister · 20-03-2015 12:43AM

dublinman1990 wrote: »

There is a overwhelming need for the rest of the youth's population of my generation who are in their early to mid 20's to go out and vote yes to this referendum.

As I was a young man growing up in Dublin; a lot of my cousins who live here would speak their minds and say that this is very wrong to do. They would come up in a somewhat aggressive manner to say to me not to go gay in the future. There are various examples that happened throughout my young life. I remember a time going about 9 years ago with my uncles, my cousin and his friends from school being driven back home from a meal out in a fast food restaurant. When my cousins dad and his brother went into a bookies for a few minutes to sort out a bet on the horses or whatever else; my cousin begins to ask me some personal questions about my own sexuality. I think OK this may or may not end well.

He asked me questions namely if I had a girlfriend, will I ever get one in the future to the point of asking me about my opinions on gay people will I ever go gay. My answer was really one of not knowing what to do or what to say in that situation. He then questioned me in more aggressive ways about the same thing about being gay over and over again. His friend said to him on lots of occasions to say to his mate it was best to leave him (me) alone and not to ask to him again. I thought his friend was very sensible in letting me relieve that sort of unneeded tension. It really was not any of his business for me to answer these type of questions.

Would he have the cheek to let me answer those questions to him again? The answer to that question is I really don't know. I would like to see his reaction if this referendum is to be passed. It may be priceless to look at the end of that decision.

From my own experience I didn't know about the word gay or homosexual until aged 11 or 12 years old in primary school. As I am in my mid 20's I should be able to say without fear or being shouted down from people who simply are uneducated on the subject that gay people are normal people like you or me and they deserve to be loved as they should deserve to be loved as anyone else.

I feel that it is not in my authority to deny someone their right to love each other. It is time for the Republic of Ireland to break the ranks of the past and say yes to this vote in May.

I have also learned a lot from reading the various posts on this thread and the various studies to back up the evidence of voting yes. Thanks for providing me that info.

What relationship is thAt friend in now? Not defending his actions but I've seen lads like that who are extremely frustrated and could be at loggerheads with their whole thinking .

Zen65 · 20-03-2015 12:49AM

lavdad wrote: »

OK I'll frame it like this then, why shouldn't a fully grown man legally allowed receive a blow job from a pre-pubescent girl, if both parties are consenting?

Because she is incapable of giving consent, in the same way a drunk or mentally handicapped person is incapable of giving consent. The very fact that you would use 'pre-pubescent' and 'consent' in the same sentence says a lot about your fundamental ignorance of the human condition.

Frankly I find it offensive that somebody with your limited intellect is allowed a vote, but I accept that you do in fact have that right.

It's a tragedy you do not feel the same generosity towards homosexual and lesbian people.

Kiwi in IE · 20-03-2015 12:55AM

Anyone who would go out and intentionally vote against the equal rights of others, in a referendum when the outcome has no effect on them either way, is in my opinion (for what it's worth) a truly horrible, nasty, spiteful, ignorant person.

If someone I knew, whether friend or family, voted no, I would be disgusted with them and if a friend I would question whether they are the sort of person I want to associate with to be honest. There is no reason for voting no other than sheer bigotry, prejudice, ignorance and homophobia. All of which are horrible traits.

Zen65 · 20-03-2015 12:59AM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

There is no reason for voting no other than sheer bigotry, prejudice and homophobia.

We cannot say this for certain.

Yes, I agree nobody here in this thread has produced a reason which could not be described as simply sheer bigotry, prejudice or homophobia. Somebody may yet have a well-grounded argument in favour of the 'no' vote, and we should remain open-minded if we hear of it.

bb1234567 · 20-03-2015 12:59AM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Anyone who would go out and intentionally vote against the equal rights of others, in a referendum when the outcome has no effect on them either way, is in my opinion (for what it's worth) a truly horrible, nasty, spiteful, ignorant person.

If someone I knew, whether friend or family, voted no, I would be disgusted with them and if a friend I would question whether they are the sort of person I want to associate with to be honest. There is no reason for voting no other than sheer bigotry, prejudice, ignorance and homophobia. All of which are horrible traits.

One of my closer friends told me he was going to vote no, at first I thought he was joking because he's a really good person. So it completely shocked me, I told him how I felt and that I thought it was wrong. Anyway he's voting yes now. I don't really want to associate with anyone voting no

Slicemeister · 20-03-2015 01:00AM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Anyone who would go out and intentionally vote against the equal rights of others, in a referendum when the outcome has no effect on them either way, is in my opinion (for what it's worth) a truly horrible, nasty, spiteful person.

If someone I knew, whether friend or family, voted no, I would be disgusted with them and if a friend I would question whether they are the sort of person I want to associate with to be honest. There is no reason for voting no other than sheer bigotry, prejudice and homophobia. All of which are horrible traits.

Very strong words. Not doing any favours to either "side". I wouldn't say even close to 50% would vote no for any of those reasons. Ignorance would be their biggest motivator, which I'm prepared to forgive as it would reflect a failing on circumstances out of their control.

BoatMad · 20-03-2015 01:04AM

Slicemeister wrote: »

Very strong words. Not doing any favours to either "side". I wouldn't say even close to 50% would vote no for any of those reasons. Ignorance would be their biggest motivator, which I'm prepared to forgive as it would reflect a failing on circumstances out of their control.

indeed, it shows up the nonsense of using referenda to discuss complex social issues . The rational debate is lost behind a welter of nonsense and hearsay

I was listening to a well known person on the radio a few days ago advancing an argument that the marriage referendum would result in a decline in mother day, or lead to its banning. Giving people like this access to the nation airwaves to spout utter nonsense is depressing to say the least

IsMiseMyself · 20-03-2015 01:08AM

I won't be voting. I'm confident enough that the yes side will win, so I didn't register. I'm lazy like that. I kind of also think that the majority should never vote on something that only affects minority--certain when the issue is marriage. It should be up to gay people to vote if they want to get married and not straight people.

Kiwi in IE · 20-03-2015 01:11AM

Zen65 wrote: »

We cannot say this for certain.

Yes, I agree nobody here in this thread has produced a reason which could not be described as simply sheer bigotry, prejudice or homophobia. Somebody may yet have a well-grounded argument in favour of the 'no' vote, and we should remain open-minded if we hear of it.

Nobody anywhere has produced such a reason, not on this thread, not in this forum, not in boards.ie, not in the media, not in political discussions.

Slicemeister wrote: »

Very strong words. Not doing any favours to either "side". I wouldn't say even close to 50% would vote no for any of those reasons. Ignorance would be their biggest motivator, which I'm prepared to forgive as it would reflect a failing on circumstances out of their control.

I forgot ignorance and edited my post to include it just before you posted the above. Ignorance is no excuse to go out and actively vote no. Perhaps to abstain from voting.

BoatMad · 20-03-2015 01:12AM

I won't be voting. I'm confident enough that the yes side will win, so I didn't register.

therein lies the problem as to why things like the divorce referendum almost didn't make it despite initial high polls. it should be made illegal not to vote in this country in referenda explicity

bb1234567 · 20-03-2015 01:12AM

IsMiseMyself wrote: »

I won't be voting. I'm confident enough that the yes side will win, so I didn't register. I'm lazy like that. I kind of also think that the majority should never vote on something that only affects minority--certain when the issue is marriage. It should be up to gay people to vote if they want to get married and not straight people.

That sounds great and all but we can't win it on our own. Gay people make up only around 4-5% of the population, at the very most 10-12%. And you know who makes up the rest of the population? Straight people, many of whom don't want us to have the same rights as them. We need support from straight people to win.

Zen65 · 20-03-2015 01:13AM

IsMiseMyself wrote: »

It should be up to gay people to vote if they want to get married and not straight people.

You're kidding, right?

Zen65 · 20-03-2015 01:17AM

Slicemeister wrote: »

I wouldn't say even close to 50% would vote no for any of those reasons. Ignorance would be their biggest motivator, which I'm prepared to forgive as it would reflect a failing on circumstances out of their control.

People may not be expressly homophobic, of course, and may simply be ignorant of the fact that they hold a set of beliefs because they were passed down to them through their early years from somebody else who was bigoted or homophobic.

PandaPoo · 20-03-2015 01:18AM

IsMiseMyself wrote: »

should be up to gay people to vote if they want to get married and not straight people.

You know if straight people vote yes, we aren't going to force them to marry right?

Slicemeister · 20-03-2015 01:19AM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I forgot ignorance and edited my post to include it just before you posted the above. Ignorance is no excuse to go out and actively vote no. Perhaps to abstain from voting.

Misinformation would probably be more apt than ignorance in their defence. To suggest anyone should abstain from voting because they don't agree with your reasoning is absurd.
Read your posts, blank out your username, how does it read?
Everyone has an opinion, afford them that.

BoatMad · 20-03-2015 01:23AM

i dont see this referendum as a LGBT thing at all. To me its a privilege and a sign of a progressive nation , that the majority should understand and agree to specific rights to facilitate a minority. too often this state has practised the tyranny of the majority, steamrollering over minorities and their cultures. This included rights of women, children, religious minorities etc

We have a lot to answer for , us majority, we acquiesced to the creation of a partisan state, ruled by autocrats and theocrats, we accepted our " betters" knew better, We now know different and it behoves us to look carefully at these " rules" and dispense of any unnecessary and immoral ones. we cannot listen to those that would drag us back to the past, for it wasn't the " good auld past", it was a corrupt and debased one.

shruikan2553 · 20-03-2015 01:28AM

Misinformation is definitely a large reason for people voting no. Look at how often people mention how children are going to have awful lives if gay people can get married or how mothers day will be banned. Throw enough **** around and some will stick. Sadly while both sides are to get equal air time there's nothing to stop people lying.

IsMiseMyself · 20-03-2015 01:33AM

PandaPoo wrote: »

You know if straight people vote yes, we aren't going to force them to marry right?

WHAT? :eek: You know what I mean!

Kiwi in IE · 20-03-2015 01:45AM

Slicemeister wrote: »

Misinformation would probably be more apt than ignorance in their defence. To suggest anyone should abstain from voting because they don't agree with your reasoning is absurd.

I'm not saying that their abstaining from voting should be enforced, I'm expressing a wish that they would. They however are attempting to force LGBT people to abstain from marrying their partners when if all were fair and just, it would have nothing to do with them as it is none of their business.

It's not really a matter of 'not agreeing with my reasoning' it is a matter of people voting to deny others equal rights. Whether equal marriage passes or not it will have no effect on no voters at all. Whether it passes or not will have a massive effect on LGBT people.

If this discussion was about people planning to vote against inter racial marriage would it be a case of them simply 'not agreeing with the reasoning' of the other side? Would ignorance and misinformation have been good enough excuses?

MadDog76 · 20-03-2015 01:53AM

I was a definite NO voter in this referendum for several reasons although I don't consider myself homophobic ........ after several debates with my wife (she's a Yes btw) and friends/family and reading stuff on here etc I was still a no, wasn't convinced by any of the arguments put forward for a yes .......... until today .......... I bumped into a childhood friend I hadn't seen in a couple of years and during conversation the referendum came up for some reason (I'd class him as being openly homophobic) and he said something that has stuck with me all day ........ "If one of my boys turns out to be gay I don't think I could forgive myself for denying him equal rights, I'm gonna vote yes" .......... I have children myself, I'll be voting yes.

BoatMad · 20-03-2015 01:58AM

MadDog76 wrote: »

I was a definite NO voter in this referendum for several reasons although I don't consider myself homophobic .

thats a rather strange claim to make ( i know you have changed your view) , if anyone votes NO, then they are against giving the LGBT community equal rights , isn't that homophobic

Slicemeister · 20-03-2015 02:02AM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I'm not saying that their abstaining from voting should be enforced, I'm expressing a wish that they would. They however are attempting to force LGBT people to abstain from marrying their partners when if all were fair and just, it would have nothing to do with them as it is none of their business.

It's not really a matter of 'not agreeing with my reasoning' it is a matter of people voting to deny others equal rights. Whether equal marriage passes or not it will have no effect on no voters at all. Whether it passes or not will have a massive effect on LGBT people.

If this discussion was about people planning to vote against inter racial marriage would it be a case of them simply 'not agreeing with the reasoning' of the other side? Would ignorance and misinformation have been good enough excuses?

Yeah, can see your reasoning now, don't agree that they "should" abstain from voting.

If this thing is gonna be passed, it's gotta be done with a lot less shouting down and pigeonholing, on both sides behalf.

Slicemeister · 20-03-2015 02:07AM

MadDog76 wrote: »

I was a definite NO voter in this referendum for several reasons although I don't consider myself homophobic ........ after several debates with my wife (she's a Yes btw) and friends/family and reading stuff on here etc I was still a no, wasn't convinced by any of the arguments put forward for a yes .......... until today .......... I bumped into a childhood friend I hadn't seen in a couple of years and during conversation the referendum came up for some reason (I'd class him as being openly homophobic) and he said something that has stuck with me all day ........ "If one of my boys turns out to be gay I don't think I could forgive myself for denying him equal rights, I'm gonna vote yes" .......... I have children myself, I'll be voting yes.

As a father myself, yeah that'd be the worst. It's like the smoker who offers you a fag when you've been off them a year scenario though.

Kiwi in IE · 20-03-2015 02:07AM

Slicemeister wrote: »

Yeah, can see your reasoning now, don't agree that they "should" abstain from voting.

If this thing is gonna be passed, it's gotta be done with a lot less shouting down and pigeonholing, on both sides behalf.

Yeah my original post that started this conversation was probably worded a lot more strongly than my posts on the subject would normally be. That one going on about paedophilia infuriated me to be honest. I did well to respond to his diatribe without an infarction.

BoatMad · 20-03-2015 02:11AM

As a father myself, yeah that'd be the worst

what would be the worst, them being gay or denying them rights

Slicemeister · 20-03-2015 02:13AM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Yeah my original post that started this conversation was probably worded a lot more strongly than my posts on the subject would normally be. That one going on about paedophilia infuriated me to be honest. I did well to respond to his diatribe without an infarction.

:-)

I know the feeling. Diatribe....my new word for the day!!

Slicemeister · 20-03-2015 02:15AM

BoatMad wrote: »

what would be the worst, them being gay or denying them rights

Being a father.

You know what I meant.

MadDog76 · 20-03-2015 02:17AM

BoatMad wrote: »

thats a rather strange claim to make ( i know you have changed your view) , if anyone votes NO, then they are against giving the LGBT community equal rights , isn't that homophobic

I think this attitude is something that let's the Gay Community down ......... just because I'm not a homomaniac it doesn't make me homophobic.

lavdad · 20-03-2015 04:25AM

Zen65 wrote: »

Because she is incapable of giving consent, in the same way a drunk or mentally handicapped person is incapable of giving consent.

She is capable of choosing though isn't she? As are drunk or mentally handicapped people. That is not a good argument against why. Is it OK for an adult man to play a game with a pre-pubescent girl? How about for him to give her a hug? See where I'm going with this? You should just admit there is no rational reason why it's unacceptable. Only irrational reasons, similar to the reasons many people aren't comfortable with homosexuals being allowed to marry. It's shows a contradiction in the yes voters and is a valid argument.

How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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