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Sinn Fein - looming health service disaster?

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Comments

  • #902
    LeeMajors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭LeeMajors


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    Great. Pay what we can afford.

    But what if what Sinn Fein decides we can afford (i.e. arbitrarily slashing salaries by over a third) isn't enough to hire/retain enough doctors and consultants?

    Why would they come here to work for that, when we can barely persuade decent Pakistani doctors to work here for 50% more than that?

    I'll post this here for you again.


    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCwQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rcsismj.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2FChalikondaL-Emigration.pdf&ei=QWkHVc-LMMyR7Ab9g4DwDw&usg=AFQjCNFSVe7bNiI8ZrbgWsJ8BDjtPyLEpQ&sig2=Hd4ZHp8rpPElQFwU6kzlNg

    It explains the reasons why doctors aren't staying here.
    Money is well down the list.


  • #903
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    I'm not sure that fewer doctors, possibly demotivated, possibly less qualified, on lower pay, is the solution.
    This again? Why are they less qualified? Is this a "cultural" thing?


  • #904
    LeeMajors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭LeeMajors


    I'll also repost this.....

    600+ patients on trollies in A&E under FG/Labour in January 2015.

    A figure even the FFailures couldn't reach.

    Is that SF's fault too?


  • #905
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    SF's new consultants.....

    dr-nick-riviera-billboard-the-simpsons.jpg


  • #906
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Everyone thinks that's a great idea until you're wheeled into A&E )

    Have you been in an A&E recently? My mother was admitted there and a week later had not seen her consultant.
    I don't like admitting to using a threat of violence, but the snotty(personal opinion) little(no denying it, he was 5'ish) junior doctor from a Dublin suburb understood exactly what I meant and got the consultant very quickly, who has been in the hospital for at least 25 years.
    My mother was in VHI on a good plan.


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  • #907
    LeeMajors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭LeeMajors


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    This again? Why are they less qualified? Is this a "cultural" thing?

    Doctors aren't leaving here because of the pay rates.
    That's obvious to anyone not trying to make a political attack.


  • #908
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    LeeMajors wrote: »
    I'll also repost this.....

    600+ patients on trollies in A&E under FG/Labour in January 2015.

    A figure even the FFailures couldn't reach.

    Is that SF's fault too?

    No, it's not - but will doing away with private health care (and the Swiftcare facilities) as per SF's policy doc, help alleviate or add to the chronic overcrowding of EDs?


  • #909
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    LeeMajors wrote: »
    Doctors aren't leaving here because of the pay rates.
    That's obvious to anyone not trying to make a political attack.

    So will cutting their pay make them more or less likely to go ?


  • #910
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #911
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    LeeMajors wrote: »
    I'll post this here for you again.


    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCwQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rcsismj.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2FChalikondaL-Emigration.pdf&ei=QWkHVc-LMMyR7Ab9g4DwDw&usg=AFQjCNFSVe7bNiI8ZrbgWsJ8BDjtPyLEpQ&sig2=Hd4ZHp8rpPElQFwU6kzlNg

    It explains the reasons why doctors aren't staying here.
    Money is well down the list.

    That's a two year old journal article.

    I posted up the IMO's Workforce Report for 2015 a few days ago - why don't you use that?


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  • #912
    LeeMajors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭LeeMajors


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    I'm not sure that fewer doctors, possibly demotivated, possibly less qualified, on lower pay, is the solution.

    I'm not sure throwing money at it, like FFail did since they set up the HSE is the solution either.
    Demotivated? Ask one of FG's NCHD's about how motivated they are.


  • #913
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    LeeMajors wrote: »
    I'm not sure throwing money at it, like FFail did since they set up the HSE is the solution either.
    Demotivated? Ask one of FG's NCHD's about how motivated they are.

    FG have a cadre of NCHDs?


  • #914
    JacquesDeLad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 969 ✭✭✭JacquesDeLad


    I'm sure consultant witch-doctors and reiki masters would be happy to work within Sinn Fein's new pay structure and they would be a perfect fit for their health policy as they were founded on the same thing.:)


  • #915
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Now I'm just a hack, but where's the salary data in that lot that shows Irish consultants are paid at twice the rate of NHS consultants.

    If it's mortality & morbidity data you want, there's much more up to date stats available than that.

    Maybe go again for the salary data?
    Health Care Resources information.gif : Remuneration of health professionals



    Wow, absolutely buried that data. Almost as if by naming it incredibly obviously people aren't able so see it. Hidden out in the open I suppose.


  • #916
    LeeMajors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭LeeMajors


    Jawgap wrote: »
    FG have a cadre of NCHDs?

    Pedantic post.
    Ok, ask the NCHD's working under FG's health minister why they're demotivated.


  • #917
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Have you been in an A&E recently? My mother was admitted there and a week later had not seen her consultant.
    I don't like admitting to using a threat of violence, but the snotty(personal opinion) little(no denying it, he was 5'ish) junior doctor from a Dublin suburb understood exactly what I meant and got the consultant very quickly, who has been in the hospital for at least 25 years.
    My mother was in VHI on a good plan.

    Yes I was in the Mater last June and spend 24 hrs on a trolley before bring admitted - I posted about it in the cycling forum.

    Health insurance is of no relevance in the ED.

    Threatening violence in the ED?


  • #918
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    JacquesDeLad wrote: »
    I'm sure consultant witch-doctors and reiki masters would be happy to work within Sinn Fein's new pay structure and they would be a perfect fit for their health policy as they were founded on the same thing.:)
    Religion? SF were founded on religion?
    Most good jokes have a least a tenuous connection with reality I find.


  • #919
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Health Care Resources information.gif : Remuneration of health professionals



    Wow, absolutely buried that data. Almost as if by naming it incredibly obviously people aren't able so see it. Hidden out in the open I suppose.

    Well done......


    .......you do know it's 2015 and that 2013 data predates HRA?


  • #920
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    LeeMajors wrote: »
    Pedantic post.
    Ok, ask the NCHD's working under FG's health minister why they're demotivated.

    I don't have to, I read the IMO's Workforce Report.


  • #921
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Jawgap wrote: »
    SF's new consultants.....
    The HSE decides who's qualified to practice here, not SF or the government. Since FG are in power right now, your jpg could be titled "FG's new consultants" as they'll have exactly the same qualifications.


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  • #922
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    The HSE decides who's qualified to practice here, not SF or the government. Since FG are in power right now, your jpg could be titled "FG's new consultants" as they'll have exactly the same qualifications.

    What!!!!!!!

    The HSE have no role in assessing quals and fitness to practice.

    If I were you I'd find a different policy area to discuss - health ain't your forte!


  • #923
    LeeMajors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭LeeMajors


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Religion? SF were founded on religion?
    Most good jokes have a least a tenuous connection with reality I find.

    You've gotta admire their stamina in attacking SF, I suppose it's good deflection from what's actually happening our health service under FG/Labour.
    The condescending baiting is a bit much though.
    Anyway, I'm hitting the sack.
    Good luck, you'll need it.;)


  • #924
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Well done......


    .......you do know it's 2015 and that 2013 data predates HRA?
    Oh, so a 10% cut you say for new entrants? That looks like being reversed shortly anyway, but so what? 10% less than double the purchasing power of a UK consultant now is it instead of just double?
    Major big point you scored there jawgap!


  • #925
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Jawgap wrote: »
    What!!!!!!!

    The HSE have no role in assessing quals and fitness to practice.

    If I were you I'd find a different policy area to discuss - health ain't your forte!
    Well SF sure a f**k don't either but I didn't see you having a go at the latest "SF's new consultants" bull**** "joke"!

    Since you don't appear to know who it is yourself and are having trouble using the internet, I can tell you it's the Irish Medical Council. (not Sinn Fein or the current government as you seem to have previously assumed)


  • #926
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Oh, so a 10% cut you say for new entrants? That looks like being reversed shortly anyway, but so what? 10% less than double the purchasing power of a UK consultant now is it instead of just double?
    Major big point you scored there jawgap!

    Where does your data show that in 2014 Irish consultants are paid twice what their UK counterparts are?


  • #927
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Well SF sure a f**k don't either but I didn't see you having a go at the latest "SF's new consultants" bull**** "joke"!

    Since you don't appear to know who it is yourself and are having trouble using the internet, I can tell you it's the Irish Medical Council. (not Sinn Fein or the current government as you seem to have previously assumed)

    I knew exactly who it was - hence my incredulity that someone would think it was the HSE :D

    ......and it's just the 'Medical Council' - you don't have to preface it with 'Irish'


  • #928
    JacquesDeLad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 969 ✭✭✭JacquesDeLad


    Presuming Sinn Fein don't make private hospitals illegal this policy would create an ever bigger divide between the rich and the poor.

    Poor people would be treated by the worst medical staff available while the rich would get the best.

    It's almost Libertarian when you think about it. People would buy the best medical insurance they afford, or just go abroad for treatment, because they wouldn't want to be treated by the rejects who ended up in public hosptials.


  • #929
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Jawgap wrote: »

    Threatening violence in the ED?

    I told the junior doctor in 'no uncertain' terms that he didn't want come back again and say the consultant was 'busy'. Any threat of 'violence' was in his mind, I wouldn't harm a fly when it comes to my 89 yr old mum. :rolleyes:
    My mum seen the consultant.


  • #930
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Where does your data show that in 2014 Irish consultants are paid twice what their UK counterparts are?
    I know I asked you to do the math earlier, but I'd better lend a hand here:
    2014 - 1 = 2013
    Does this help?


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  • #931
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Health Care Resources information.gif : Remuneration of health professionals



    Wow, absolutely buried that data. Almost as if by naming it incredibly obviously people aren't able so see it. Hidden out in the open I suppose.


    Great, thanks for posting that.

    It divides doctors into two categories - GPs and specialists.

    By doing so it seems that NCHDs are excluded from the salary comparison (presumably because they are treated as still in training) even though they are a key cog in the delivery of Irish health services, this painting a very false picture of Irish hospital doctor remuneration.

    This is one of the cases where the full picture is not obtained from the OECD survey because it is a flawed comparison.


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