Sinn Fein - looming health service disaster?

RecordStraight · 10-03-2015 08:39PM

rockatansky wrote: »

Yes, when you click on that link there is a .PDF you can download called 'Pre-Budget2014Submission.pdf'. This is taken directly from this PDF:

health
» Deliver further savings on branded medicines and alter
prescribing practices: saves €258 million
» Introduction of generic substitution and reference pricing
for the 20 most commonly used off-patent medications:
saves €66 million
» Partial introduction of full cost of private care in public
hospitals: saves €120 million
» Implementation of measures to improve system
productivity, including strategic purchasing: saves €205.9
million
» Reduce consultants’ pay by 15% on income between
€150,000 and €200,000; and 30% on income of over
€200,000 per annum: saves €9 million
PUblIc Pay & PensIons
» Reductions in public sector pay & pensions, including 15%
reduction in public sector salaries between €100,000 &
€150,000 and 30% on income over €150,000: saves €31.5
million

There appears to be a massive contradiction between that and their stated plan to cap public sector pay at 100k, no?

rockatansky · 10-03-2015 08:42PM

RecordStraight wrote: »

There appears to be a massive contradiction between that and their stated plan to cap public sector pay at 100k, no?

No I don't think that's what their aiming at with the 100k cap. I believe that they are referring to top Civil Servants, Special advisers etc.. that you always here them banging on in the news about.

**

RecordStraight · 10-03-2015 08:45PM

rockatansky wrote: »

No I don't think that's what their aiming at with the 100k cap. I believe that they are referring to top Civil Servants, Special advisers etc.. that you always here them banging on in the news about.

So you are arguing that when Sinn Fein talk about a 100k pay cap across the Public Sector, they mean only some parts of the public sector? If this is the case, they should really make this clear - I've never heard this expressed by any Sinn Fein representative.

(incidentally, it is nice to come across someone willing to argue SF's corner without the usual mud-slinging tactics)

househero · 10-03-2015 08:49PM

Did they come back on holiday from Cuba?

Why do they come up with this crap, are SF voters retarded and they are appeasing their limited education with... Paying less is good, OK.

rockatansky · 10-03-2015 08:52PM

Yeah the more I read it the more I think I'm right. I think the 100K cap doesn't apply to those in the Health Service.

I'll send an email to Pearse Doherty now seeking clarification on this question.

rockatansky · 10-03-2015 08:56PM

Also I found this on the web, seems to be a list of Consultant Pay in the UK for 2015.

http://www.hospitaldr.co.uk/guidance/hospital-doctors-pay-scales-for-20092010

Taking into account the reductions (what I believe) Sinn Fein wish to impliment, does this still not mean that Consultants in Ireland are getting paid alot more than their colleagues in the UK (I;m assuming that UK would be our main competition for Doctors, Nurses and Consultants).

Ace2007 · 10-03-2015 09:03PM

rockatansky wrote: »

Yeah the more I read it the more I think I'm right. I think the 100K cap doesn't apply to those in the Health Service.

I send an email to Pearse Doherty now seeking clarification on this question.

In 2011 they clearly stated

Cap salaries in the public service, including the health services, at €100,000 per annum. Latest figures show over 110 HSE staff receive more than €100,000 per year. The CEO of the HSE is on a salary of €332,113 per annum, with National Directors on sums ranging from €145,949 to €192,492.

Now I can't imagine their policies have changed much since then on the issue

http://www.sinnfein.ie/files/2011/HealthDoc.pdf

Timberrrrrrrr · 10-03-2015 09:05PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

In 2011 they clearly stated

Cap salaries in the public service, including the health services, at €100,000 per annum. Latest figures show over 110 HSE staff receive more than €100,000 per year. The CEO of the HSE is on a salary of €332,113 per annum, with National Directors on sums ranging from €145,949 to €192,492.

Now I can't imagine their policies have changed much since then on the issue

http://www.sinnfein.ie/files/2011/HealthDoc.pdf

Their policies change weekly, sure one minute they were all for IW then they seen the protests and flipped sides. Now they claim they will disband IW but have also said they would be willing to privatize it

michael999999 · 10-03-2015 09:07PM

Crash and burn for this thread!

Ha ha

rockatansky · 10-03-2015 09:11PM

Email sent to his @oireachtas email address. Couldnt see a Sinn Fein address for him.

I'm not on twitter or Friend Face so email is the only option I'm afraid. If I get a reply I'll post both my email to him and his response up. (If this doesn't break any house rules??)

RecordStraight · 10-03-2015 09:14PM

rockatansky wrote: »

Email sent to his @oireachtas email address. Couldnt see a Sinn Fein address for him.

I'm not on twitter or Friend Face so email is the only option I'm afraid. If I get a reply I'll post both my email to him and his response up.

Great - if not too late, could you find out exactly who they are referring to when they talk about a €100k public sector pay cap? If doctors are excluded, who else is excluded that they have not told us about?

Happyman42 · 10-03-2015 09:15PM

RecordStraight wrote: »

Yes, but it's opinion founded on economic reality, not in Sinn Fein dreamland, where foreign doctors stick around because [some reason]

It's your opinion. End off.
But I think your thread may be in a little more trouble than that. Just my opinion

RecordStraight · 10-03-2015 09:16PM

michael999999 wrote: »

Crash and burn for this thread!

Ha ha

I don't think it's controversial to suggest that this is a pretty poor post that contributes nothing and is typical of your output on Boards as a leading Sinn Fein cheerleader.

RecordStraight · 10-03-2015 09:18PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

It's your opinion. End off.
But I think your thread may be in a little more trouble than that. Just my opinion

Well it looks like we have just uncovered a major contradiction in Sinn Féin's policy and that their talk of a 100k pay cap in the public sector may be a total misrepresentation. Plenty to discuss, if you were interested in serious discussion rather than the usual divert/attack/ridicule Sinn Fein fan approach.

LeeMajors · 10-03-2015 09:19PM

househero wrote: »

Did they come back on holiday from Cuba?

Why do they come up with this crap, are Sinn fein voters retarded and they are appeasing their limited education with... Paying less is good, OK.

Really:rolleyes:

rockatansky · 10-03-2015 09:22PM

RecordStraight wrote: »

Great - if not too late, could you find out exactly who they are referring to when they talk about a €100k public sector pay cap? If doctors are excluded, who else is excluded that they have not told us about?

That was one of two questions I asked:

2 Questions:

(1) Do Consultants not come under the bracket of the 100k pay cap as Public Sector Workers?

(2) If Consultants within the Health Service do not fall under this pay cap, would it be possible to briefly outline who exactly who in the Public Sector does fall under the 100k cap.

michael999999 · 10-03-2015 09:23PM

RecordStraight wrote: »

I don't think it's controversial to suggest that this is a pretty poor post that contributes nothing and is typical of your output on Boards as a leading Sinn Fein cheerleader.

Burn!!!!!!!

rockatansky · 10-03-2015 09:25PM

RecordStraight wrote: »

Plenty to discuss, if you were interested in serious discussion rather than the usual divert/attack/ridicule Sinn Fein fan approach.

In fairness, only 4 posts in / 20 minutes later we get a post saying:

Deafening silence.

Sinn Fein has nothing to offer this country.

It was never really going to be a serious discussion from the beginning.

Happyman42 · 10-03-2015 09:27PM

RecordStraight wrote: »

Well it looks like we have just uncovered a major contradiction in Sinn Féin's policy and that their talk of a 100k pay cap in the public sector may be a total misrepresentation. Plenty to discuss, if you were interested in serious discussion rather than the usual divert/attack/ridicule Sinn Fein fan approach.

Perhaps if you had done a little research first before rushing to rant about mythical mass exodus an service collapses we wouldn't be here at all.

Happyman42 · 10-03-2015 09:28PM

RecordStraight wrote: »

Well it looks like we have just uncovered a major contradiction in Sinn Féin's policy and that their talk of a 100k pay cap in the public sector may be a total misrepresentation. Plenty to discuss, if you were interested in serious discussion rather than the usual divert/attack/ridicule Sinn Fein fan approach.

Perhaps if you had done a little research first before rushing to rant about mythical mass exodus an service collapses we wouldn't be here at all.

michael999999 · 10-03-2015 09:29PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Perhaps if you had done a little research first before rushing to rant about mythical mass exodus an service collapses we wouldn't be here at all.

Leave him, he's hilarious.

I can just imagine him now, fit to burst. Frantically tapping refresh on the Indo website to see what other Sinn Fein related story's come up!

Burn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RecordStraight · 10-03-2015 09:30PM

rockatansky wrote: »

That was one of two questions I asked:

2 Questions:

(1) Do Consultants not come under the bracket of the 100k pay cap as Public Sector Workers?

(2) If Consultants within the Health Service do not fall under this pay cap, would it be possible to briefly outline who exactly who in the Public Sector does fall under the 100k cap.

Pay attention gentlemen, this is how discussion of SF policy should look.

RecordStraight · 10-03-2015 09:31PM

michael999999 wrote: »

Leave him, he's hilarious.

I can just imagine him now, fit to burst. Frantically tapping refresh on the Indo website to see what other Sinn Fein related story's come up!

Burn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Top quality posting.

Ridicule/divert/attack.

RecordStraight · 10-03-2015 09:32PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Perhaps if you had done a little research first before rushing to rant about mythical mass exodus an service collapses we wouldn't be here at all.

The thread has thrown up what looks like a massive contradiction in Sinn Fein's policies.

That's pretty interesting, as much as you try to divert from it.

WheatenBriar · 10-03-2015 09:58PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Perhaps if you had done a little research first before rushing to rant about mythical mass exodus an service collapses we wouldn't be here at all.

Shur didn't I say a few times pages back in this thread that hospital consultants would be excluded from the 100k cap and I hadn't read the 2014 budget link at all ,I just had the cop on to know that SF policy makers would know better
So page's of wasted moot tit for tat here SIGH

LeeMajors · 10-03-2015 10:01PM

rockatansky wrote: »

Yes, when you click on that link there is a .PDF you can download called 'Pre-Budget2014Submission.pdf'. This is taken directly from this PDF:

health
» Deliver further savings on branded medicines and alter
prescribing practices: saves €258 million
» Introduction of generic substitution and reference pricing
for the 20 most commonly used off-patent medications:
saves €66 million
» Partial introduction of full cost of private care in public
hospitals: saves €120 million
» Implementation of measures to improve system
productivity, including strategic purchasing: saves €205.9
million
» Reduce consultants’ pay by 15% on income between
€150,000 and €200,000; and 30% on income of over
€200,000 per annum: saves €9 million
PUblIc Pay & PensIons
» Reductions in public sector pay & pensions, including 15%
reduction in public sector salaries between €100,000 &
€150,000 and 30% on income over €150,000: saves €31.5
million

Kinda make this thread look a bit silly tbh.
Then again...

Happyman42 · 10-03-2015 10:02PM

RecordStraight wrote: »

The thread has thrown up what looks like a massive contradiction in Sinn Fein's policies.

That's pretty interesting, as much as you try to divert from it.

I think the thread has thrown up that you have been speculating and ranting about a non existent looming disaster.
All I was doing was assuming the OP had done his/her research.

RecordStraight · 10-03-2015 10:06PM

One thing I can't help noticing:

When Happyman thought that Sinn Fein were definitely cutting doctors' pay by half, he claimed it would do no harm to the health service and it was a perfectly good proposal.

Now he thinks they are not proposing that, and he thinks that that is also a perfectly good proposal.

He's willing to support two completely opposite policies within hours. :pac:

hmmm · 10-03-2015 10:07PM

It'll be interesting to see which of the three published SF policies is actually the policy they intend to apply. Sometimes I think with all the flip flopping they must confuse themselves.

We should email all SF TDs and Councillors and see whether any of them agree on what their policy is - although in seeing them in action they do tend to be terrified to state a position on anything without getting the nod from the politburo or whatever it is called these days.

WheatenBriar · 10-03-2015 10:07PM

LeeMajors wrote: »

Nope.
First line, last paragraph.

Aye but it is illegal for businesses not to pay utility bills
I answered out of context though

By the way, while I'm here,I do think SF's policy of even reducing consultants pay by 15-30% is mis guided
We should really be sucking up when it comes to consultants pay and just encourage the world's best here
9 million seems small beer when it comes to getting the best for our citizens

Sinn Fein - looming health service disaster?

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