Sinn Fein - looming health service disaster?

RecordStraight · 10-03-2015 12:36PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

You are saying only people with a university qualification are capable of running a ministry

Please quote where I said that. Or admit it is a lie.

Happyman42 · 10-03-2015 12:39PM

RecordStraight wrote: »

Please quote where I said that. Or admit it is a lie.

Here:

RecordStraight wrote:

I merely pointed out that Pearse Doherty didn't even manage a college degree, which is worrying (to me, at least) for someone looking to run our economy. Angry bluster will take you only so far.

RecordStraight · 10-03-2015 12:39PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Here:

Ok, so it was a lie. Thanks for admitting that much.

Happyman42 · 10-03-2015 12:41PM

RecordStraight wrote: »

Ok, so it was a lie. Thanks for admitting that much.

What a cowardly response.
Why would it worry you that he hasn't a college degree?

RecordStraight · 10-03-2015 12:42PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

What a cowardly response.
Why would it worry you that he hasn't a college degree?

It's a more polite response that you merit. Would it worry you if someone giving you medical treatment had no college degree?

BoJack Horseman · 10-03-2015 12:44PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Why would it worry you that he hasn't a college degree?

Because Shinnernomics will affect all of our lives come next spring.

Surely you want the doctrine of our shared futures to be formulated by experts?

Happyman42 · 10-03-2015 12:45PM

RecordStraight wrote: »

It's a more polite response that you merit. Would it worry you if someone giving you medical treatment had no college degree?

If he/she was being advised by qualified people I wouldn't have a problem. If my GP cannot help me he refers me to a specialist who can. When you are a minister it works the same way. If you knew how government works you would know this.

Permabear · 10-03-2015 12:46PM

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Happyman42 · 10-03-2015 12:46PM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Because Shinnernomics will affect all of our lives come next spring.

Surely you want the doctrine of our shared futures to be formulated by experts?

Another one who believes a Minister works in isolation

:rolleyes:

RecordStraight · 10-03-2015 12:49PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

If he/she was being advised by qualified people I wouldn't have a problem. If my GP cannot help me he refers me to a specialist who can. When you are a minister it works the same way. If you knew how government works you would know this.

So how does a minister know when he is getting good advice? Are you saying that a Pearse Doherty finance ministry would be run by the civil servants?

And he'd just be a puppet?

I like the idea of you undergoing surgery and the surgeon on the phone asking for 'good advice' on what bits to cut.

(although if SF policy drives away all the doctors, that might be uncomfortably close to the truth)

Happyman42 · 10-03-2015 12:50PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Dropping out of a course because it isn't for you is not something that indicates that you are lacking in intelligence or the ability to learn. It just means that it isn't for you.
'Didn't even manage' to obtain a degree suggests that he was lacking the ability. It is derogatory way to phrase it.

I think anybody of average intelligence can manage a ministry, yes. You don't need to be a specialist.

BoJack Horseman · 10-03-2015 12:52PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Another one who believes a Minister works in isolation

No, I think there are several staff who formulated Shinnernomics.

It would be a lot for 1 person to do.

RecordStraight · 10-03-2015 12:52PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Dropping out of a course because it isn't for you is not something that indicates that you are lacking in intelligence or the ability to learn. It just means that it isn't for you.

So he twice tried to do a course that 'wasn't for him'?

I can see why he needs all these advisers you keep mentioning.

Happyman42 · 10-03-2015 12:55PM

RecordStraight wrote: »

So how does a minister know when he is getting good advice? Are you saying that a Pearse Doherty finance ministry would be run by the civil servants? And he'd just be a puppet?

Just ludicrous holding on to this RecordStraight. Ministers do not and never have had to be qualified in the field that they are Minister off, not just here but across the world. Give it up, or spit out what you really want to say here.

I like the idea of you undergoing surgery and the surgeon on the phone asking for 'good advice' on what bits to cut.

Medical treatment has now become the specialism of 'surgery'...I see what you did there! Very good, very transparent what you are at. :rolleyes:

Permabear · 10-03-2015 12:55PM

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Happyman42 · 10-03-2015 12:56PM

RecordStraight wrote: »

So he twice tried to do a course that 'wasn't for him'?

I can see why he needs all these advisers you keep mentioning.

Come on, be brave RS, you are nearly there..spit it out!

Be brave.

RecordStraight · 10-03-2015 12:57PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Interestingly, in probably the best-governed EU country, Germany, it's quite typical for a minister to have a PhD. I wonder is there a causal relationship there?

Happyman42 · 10-03-2015 12:58PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

How many EU countries are economically in tatters?

How many of the people who fuucked up the EU had 'qualifications in economics'?

jmayo · 10-03-2015 01:01PM

daUbiq wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Ever hear of Warren Buffet.
He is over 80, but yet doing ok.
Speaking of getting on what about sf's party leader.
He is 66 so isn't it time he hung up his boots ?

As for advisors, enquiries proved the Dept of Finance was severly lacking in proper qualified and experienced people.
And advisors should not mean loads of jobs for party hacks.

RecordStraight wrote: »

I actually wouldn't mind them getting a turn in government - it might diminish the messianic zeal of their supporters if they realise that they don't have a magic cure for all our problems.

But I'm genuinely worried about them (further) fouling up the health service, and damaging inward investment with crazy anti-business tax policies.

They don't need a turn in government.
Greece can be used as the example as to why the anti austerity, continue to live beyond your means, spending other peoples money and magic money tree parties simply don't work and lead to ven more destruction.

Permabear wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I have no problem with college dropouts if they are intelligent, aren't talking through their ar** and have a bit of good old fashioned cop on.

As for finance ministers dripping in qualifications, lets take a look at the current Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis.

Not a bad resume.
He has a BA(Hons) Mathematical Economics, a MSc in Mathematical Statistics, a PhD in Economics.
These were garnered from two different universities in the UK, not Greece.
Impressive enough list of qualifications and he has worked in universities around the world including Cambridge.
He has published papers and written numerous books.
So all in all not a bad theoretical background.

Now saying all that would you want him as your finance minister ?

See where I am going here ?

BTW I am not excusing the pearse doherty magic money tree school of economic thought, or rather lack of thought.

RecordStraight · 10-03-2015 01:10PM

jmayo wrote: »

I have no problem with college dropouts if they are intelligent, aren't talking through their ar** and have a bit of good old fashioned cop on.

Indeed, and some have gone on to have great business careers. I have less regard for those who decide to become professional politicians without ever achieving anything. Doherty, like FG's Simon Coveney, went into professional politics very young without achieving anything in the real world.

Permabear · 10-03-2015 01:11PM

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Quin_Dub · 10-03-2015 01:22PM

RecordStraight wrote: »

Indeed, and some have gone on to have great business careers. I have less regard for those who decide to become professional politicians without ever achieving anything. Doherty, like FG's Simon Coveney, went into professional politics very young without achieving anything in the real world.

Absolutely...I'm always suspicious of career politicians - Student Union then Government aide then into Elected office etc. Something just doesn't sit right with me about that...

Although in Coveneys case I think he came to politics a bit earlier that planned due to the sudden death of his father... I suspect that he'd have run the family business for a number of years before moving to take the "Family seat" (that's a topic for a whole other thread) under other circumstances.

Timberrrrrrrr · 10-03-2015 01:35PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Dropping out of a course because it isn't for you is not something that indicates that you are lacking in intelligence or the ability to learn. It just means that it isn't for you.
'Didn't even manage' to obtain a degree suggests that he was lacking the ability. It is derogatory way to phrase it.

I think anybody of average intelligence can manage a ministry, yes. You don't need to be a specialist.

Didn't he then try to claim he had the degree?

Yup

Another proven liar in the SF ranks

http://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-feins-doherty-forced-to-clarify-job-qualifications-78067-Feb2011/

The Irish Daily Mirror today pointed out that while Doherty’s biography on the Donegal Sinn Féin website – and on the official Sinn Féin election website – claimed him to be a ‘civil engineer’ by profession, he was not entitled to claim such a title.

This was because the Civil Engineering course he had enrolled in at Dublin Institute of Technology in 1996 was a three-year course – but he left it after two years to take on a job in the industry, leaving with a qualification as a civil engineering technician but not as a qualified engineer.

When pressed by the Mirror, Doherty said he was entitled to list civil engineering as his profession, as that was the industry in which he worked – but conceded that he should not have been listed as a ‘civil engineer’.

Permabear · 10-03-2015 01:38PM

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Godge · 10-03-2015 02:00PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

What a cowardly response.
Why would it worry you that he hasn't a college degree?

It is not necessaringly worrying that he hasn't a college degree. What is seriously worrying is that he lied about it, the only other who I can recall similarly lying is Bertie Ahern.

Happyman42 · 10-03-2015 02:01PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

He was working as a civil engineer, but didn't hold a civil engineering degree. That is where there was confusion.
May have been an attempt to mislead but if he was working as a civil engineer I am not sure if much malice could be read into it.

Godge · 10-03-2015 02:04PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

He was working as a civil engineer, but didn't hold a civil engineering degree. That is where there was confusion.
May have been an attempt to mislead but if he was working as a civil engineer I am not sure if much malice could be read into it.

Bertie Ahern was working as an accountant but didn't hold an accounting degree.

Pearse is in the same league of liar as Bertie Ahern.

Ace2007 · 10-03-2015 02:15PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

He was working as a civil engineer, but didn't hold a civil engineering degree. That is where there was confusion.
May have been an attempt to mislead but if he was working as a civil engineer I am not sure if much malice could be read into it.

For a party that need picks phrases that government use, is it not very unprofessional to lead people to think one of their most senior members in qualified in an area that he isn't?

If i do 2 year course in medicine, and then get a job in a hospital, is it ok for me to go around telling people i'm a doctor and put in on a website that encourages people to vote for me?

If he didn't see anything wrong in this - why change it - why not just argue the case that he did 2 years in college and worked?

Iwasfrozen · 10-03-2015 02:25PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Bertie Ahern- Minister For Finance - Accounts Clerk. Ahern has claimed or it has been claimed by others in circulated biographies that he was educated at University College Dublin and the London School of Economics but neither university has any records that show Ahern was ever one of their students.
Ruairi Quinn - Minister For Finance - Qualified as an Architect.
Charlie McGreevy- Qualified Accountant.
Brian Cowen- Minister for Finance - Qualified in Law.
Brian Lenihan - Minister For Finance - Law degree and Senior counsel
Michael Noonan - Minister for Finance - School Teacher

So all degree holders then?

How many SF TDs have degrees?

daUbiq · 10-03-2015 02:29PM

Originally Posted by Happyman42
Bertie Ahern- Minister For Finance - Accounts Clerk. Ahern has claimed or it has been claimed by others in circulated biographies that he was educated at University College Dublin and the London School of Economics but neither university has any records that show Ahern was ever one of their students.
Ruairi Quinn - Minister For Finance - Qualified as an Architect.
Charlie McGreevy- Qualified Accountant.
Brian Cowen- Minister for Finance - Qualified in Law.
Brian Lenihan - Minister For Finance - Law degree and Senior counsel
Michael Noonan - Minister for Finance - School Teacher

Sorry, I can't resist... even though these people were "appropriately" qualified they still made a balls of running the country. Didn't they?

Sinn Fein - looming health service disaster?

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