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Atheism/Existence of God Debates (Part 2)

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Comments

  • #1262
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    hinault wrote: »
    "There's bound to be something, somewhere" is really what you're saying.

    You accept that this amounts to less evidence for holding a belief, than the voluminous evidence that gets disregarded to dismiss the religious beliefs that some hold?

    The voluminous evidence that you have yet to provide me...
    Again, equivocation fallacy. I don't make specific claims about aliens. I don't base a religion around them, or base my moral and/or ethical code on whether or not they exist and have communicated with humans.
    I can't say the same for you.


  • #1263
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    Have theists/christians made (many) specific positive claims throughout the years? Yes.
    Have those claims been supported by evidence? Nope, not as far as I can see.

    How many claims have you made in this forum that were proved ?

    Can you give us one ?


  • #1264
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    So you hold your belief without any evidence, is that correct ?

    Grand, have you any claims about theism or Christianity then ?

    The poster says "I claim nothing specific about alien life, other than the high probability, due to statistics, that it is likely to exist elsewhere than on Earth."

    Your response is "So you hold your belief without any evidence, is that correct ?"

    Behave yourself. You are deliberately missing the point that is being made.


  • #1265
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    How many claims have you made in this forum that were proved ?

    Can you give us one ?

    I'd probably have to search for one, given that I have been on here for quite a while and at the moment (due to the late hour) I can't think of one.
    However, even if I in fact have never made a positive claim, that somehow doesn't speak against me. As far as I reckon, I mostly expose holes in the positive claims of theists.

    Anyway, are you going to show me this voluminous evidence you speak of?


  • #1266
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    orubiru wrote: »
    The poster says "I claim nothing specific about alien life, other than the high probability, due to statistics, that it is likely to exist elsewhere than on Earth."

    Your response is "So you hold your belief without any evidence, is that correct ?"

    Behave yourself. [BACK SEAT MODDING] You are deliberately missing the point that is being made.

    More ad hominem and straw men, got any arguments that don't involve them yet ?


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  • #1267
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    I'd probably have to search for one, given that I have been on here for quite a while and at the moment (due to the late hour) I can't think of one.

    Sure come back when you find one claim you've proved that you made about theism or Christianity.

    You're right it's late, and I'm off to bed.

    Thanks Lads, I enjoyed that. Night all. :)


  • #1268
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    More ad hominem and straw men, got any arguements that don't involve them yet ?

    ...that's not a strawman. That's a direct quote from you.


  • #1269
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    Why, have you got any yet that God does not exist ?

    Or even any evidence, or even an argument not based on false premises, or fallacy ?

    Thanks.

    Once again. I do not have evidence that God does not exist.

    I am not trying to prove that God does not exist.

    I am not going to give evidence or even an argument (based on false premises, or fallacy or otherwise) that God does not exist. I am not trying to.

    There is no evidence that God does exist though so I can't believe in God until I see the evidence.

    Yes, I lack belief in God. Therefore I am an Atheist. So there is your proof of Atheism.


  • #1270
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    Sure come back when you find one claim you've proved that you made about theism or Christianity.

    You're right it's late, and I'm off to bed.

    Thanks Lads, I enjoyed that. Night all. :)

    For the record, exposing holes and flaws in positive claims is enough. There's no need for me to make a positive claim in order to somehow "justify" my being an atheist.


  • #1271
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    ...that's not a strawman. That's a direct quote from you.

    It is, and it was more attacking the poster again, instead making a point.


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  • #1272
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    More ad hominem and straw men, got any arguments that don't involve them yet ?

    The poster says "I claim nothing specific about alien life, other than the high probability, due to statistics, that it is likely to exist elsewhere than on Earth."

    Your response is "So you hold your belief without any evidence, is that correct ?"

    Care to explain your reasoning there?


  • #1273
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    For the record, exposing holes and flaws in positive claims is enough. There's no need for me to make a positive claim in order to somehow "justify" my being an atheist.

    Looking forward to when you provide one claim you made about theism or Christianity and proved. . .


  • #1274
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    orubiru wrote: »
    The poster says "I claim nothing specific about alien life, other than the high probability, due to statistics, that it is likely to exist elsewhere than on Earth."

    Your response is "So you hold your belief without any evidence, is that correct ?"

    Care to explain your reasoning there?

    Yeah, it's not clear to me, do you speak for him ?


  • #1275
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    It is, and it was more attacking the poster again, instead making a point.

    A straw-man is Person A pretending that Person B said X, and then attacking X and by extension Person B, because B "said it".
    You did say "So you hold your belief without any evidence, is that correct?". It's a direct quote, word for word. There's no strawmanning there, at least not with that phrase.


  • #1276
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,853 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    What would be evidence for any one of the possibilities and why, any practical examples ?

    whatever the evidence is , it would need to be clear that it was not a human creation and that the nature of the god would gel with the history of the universe and the history of humans on earth. Cant think of any examples , what would any particular answer tell you?

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #1277
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    Looking forward to when you provide one claim you made about theism or Christianity and proved. . .

    Fine.

    A typical, average christian will claim they base their belief on the bible. That is a claim I make.


  • #1278
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    A straw-man is Person A pretending that Person B said X, and then attacking X and by extension Person B, because B "said it".
    You did say "So you hold your belief without any evidence, is that correct?". It's a direct quote, word for word. There's no strawmanning there, at least not with that phrase.

    And I notice you ignored the rest of his post, and edited it and the context, which is a classic strawman from yourself.


  • #1279
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    And I notice you ignored the rest of his post, and edited it and the context, which is a classic strawman from yourself.

    I'm only concerned with your accusation of a strawman there. It's blatantly false.
    Did you or did you not say the phrase "So you hold your belief without any evidence, is that correct?"?
    If no, then why is it I can scroll back to see it in a comment from you?
    If yes, then why are you claiming strawman?

    Wait...edited his post? Is this some sort of accusation that...what? I'm running two accounts here?


  • #1280
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    More ad hominem, have you any argument to make, other than attacking the poster instead of the post ? Lets hear it.


    You should ask yourself that question . Do you have any argument to make ?
    So lets hear it

    And no ad hominem - you were disingenuous about your belief were you not ?

    Quite correct that you were called out on it .


  • #1281
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    I'm only concerned with your accusation of a strawman there. It's blatantly false.
    Did you or did you not say the phrase "So you hold your belief without any evidence, is that correct?"?
    If no, then why is it I can scroll back to see it in a comment from you?
    If yes, then why are you claiming strawman?

    Wait...edited his post? Is this some sort of accusation that...what? I'm running two accounts here?

    Finally a question I can answer!

    They don't understand what "strawman" is.


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  • #1282
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    Fine.

    A typical, average christian will claim they base their belief on the bible. That is a claim I make.

    Great. Prove your claim, and its premises, also tell us what is a typical Christian while your at it. (and don't forget to tell us, how Christians held a belief before the bible was first agreed at the council of Nicea in 325, and tell us how Christians who can not read believe etc.)


  • #1283
    hinault
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    The voluminous evidence that you have yet to provide me...
    Again, equivocation fallacy. I don't make specific claims about aliens. I don't base a religion around them, or base my moral and/or ethical code on whether or not they exist and have communicated with humans.
    I can't say the same for you.

    So you're saying that there is more evidence of alien life, none of it physical evidence, than there is for the existence of God?


  • #1284
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    marienbad wrote: »
    You should ask yourself that question . Do you have any argument to make ?

    When you answer the questions that have been asked of you, look them up if you can't remember, and when you've proved your accusation below.
    marienbad wrote: »
    And no ad hominem - you were disingenuous about your belief were you not ?

    Quite correct that you were called out on it .

    You'll be able to prove where I was then. Off you go.


  • #1285
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    Great. Prove your claim, and its premises, also tell us what is a typical Christian while your at it. (and don't forget to tell us, how Christians held a belief before the bible was first agreed at the council of Nicea in 325, and tell us how Christians who can not read believe etc.)

    Shouldn't you know what a christian is? Also, notice that I never said anything about them actually reading the bible. Only that they claim to base their belief on it.
    I know I'm not the only person here who grew up with people who were die hard believers...but who had never cracked open a bible.


  • #1286
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    hinault wrote: »
    So you're saying that there is more evidence of alien life, none of it physical evidence, than there is for the existence of God?

    Yes. At least with the recent research coming out of NASA, that is something we can examine.
    With God...nothing. At least, anything that I have examined has so far proved to be in favour of the god claim.
    Now I myself shall be tottling off to bed, unlike what Cen taurus claimed (hmm...could've sworn there's something in christianity about lying)


  • #1287
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    Shouldn't you know what a christian is? Also, notice that I never said anything about them actually reading the bible. Only that they claim to base their belief on it.
    I know I'm not the only person here who grew up with people who were die hard believers...but who had never cracked open a bible.

    You want me to tell you what your claim about a 'typical' Christian is ?

    How do you base your belief on a book you cannot read ?

    Also how did Christians before 325 base their belief on the bible ?

    Any proof for your claims yet ?


  • #1288
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    You want me to tell you what your claim about a 'typical' Christian is ?

    How do you base your belief on a book you cannot read ?

    Also how did Christians before 325 base their belief on the bible ?

    Any proof for your claims yet ?

    Do you think maybe we could just cut through all this nonsense now?

    Seriously, what is your point?

    What point are you trying to make?


  • #1289
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    A typical, average christian will claim they base their belief on the bible. That is a claim I make.

    Waiting on proof for this claim . . . or are you just going to talk about providing it someday ?


  • #1290
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    Waiting on proof for this claim . . . or are you just going to talk about providing it someday ?

    As I'm waiting on the voluminus evidence in favour of your christian belief...


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  • #1291
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    Waiting on proof for this claim . . . or are you just going to talk about providing it someday ?

    I can't be bothered waiting for proof. So let's say that none is provided.

    Then what? What is your point?

    That nobody can ever prove anything?


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