Atheism/Existence of God Debates (Part 2)

silverharp · 09-03-2015 10:54PM

Cen taurus wrote: »

Also what would be evidence for God's existence in your opinion, and why would it be evidence ?

wouldnt that depend on the nature of a god? there could be any number of possibilities, if there was a God it could be anything from a walk away clockmaker to an impersonal force. I'd imagine it would be pretty obvious though and not dependent on mystics having dreams.

orubiru · 09-03-2015 11:12PM

Cen taurus wrote: »

News to me, Science doesn't claim there is any evidence for alien life yet. You could be up for the noble prize.

I found this one to be pretty intriguing...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/space/11297326/Life-on-Mars-Nasa-finds-first-hint-of-alien-life.html

It's kinda funny that you guys have made no progress finding proof of Catholic God down here on Earth for, oh, a couple of thousand years and NASA are up there only 2 and half years and already have some promising leads.

You guys shoulda got NASA to go out and find Jesus.

Jesus captures your imagination by threatening to burn you forever for not having faith in him.

NASA captures the imagination by landing robots on other planets to look for aliens.

Jesus never really had a chance.

Cen taurus · 09-03-2015 11:37PM

RikuoAmero wrote: »

So anytime someone debates you and points at something in the bible that is clearly false

[FALSE claim -What have you ever proved that is clearly false in the bible ? ]

(and hence would normally defeat someone's belief in their religion),

[FALSE, all it would prove is that something is not true, not the entire religion]

th you move the goalposts, such that "no no no no, it's not GOD's fault that there's something false in the bible, it's the fault of the humans who wrote it!"

[FALSE - Ad hominen, strawman, false quote and amatuer dramatics]

This is a clear cut case of wanting to eat your cake and have it too.

[FALSE - Ad hominen, strawman, false quote and amatuer dramatics]

You believe the positive claim of God exists because of the bible and RCC tradition.

[FALSE claim - Mind reading]

..but whenever something is pointed out to you that is false in the bible, that somehow doesn't affect your justification for your belief in God.

If [Note the use of IF - are you claiming it is or not ?] the bible is just this man made document, with no ties at all to the divine...then what use is it? Why use it to support your belief in a specific god, and a specific denomination? At that point, it's just any other book, nothing special at all about it.

Do you have anything other than false claims, premises, or fallacies for us ?

Cen taurus · 09-03-2015 11:38PM

marienbad wrote: »

Why is it relevant that it is from another forum ? You were being disingenuous on this one so it was time you were called out on it.

More ad hominem, have you any argument to make, other than attacking the poster instead of the post ? Lets hear it.

Cen taurus · 09-03-2015 11:40PM

silverharp wrote: »

wouldnt that depend on the nature of a god? there could be any number of possibilities, if there was a God it could be anything from a walk away clockmaker to an impersonal force. I'd imagine it would be pretty obvious though and not dependent on mystics having dreams.

What would be evidence for any one of the possibilities and why, any practical examples ?

Cen taurus · 09-03-2015 11:44PM

orubiru wrote: »

I found this one to be pretty intriguing...

orubiru wrote: »

It's kinda funny that you guys have made no progress finding proof of Catholic God down here on Earth for, oh, a couple of thousand years and NASA are up there only 2 and half years and already have some promising leads.

[Tell us, what evidence would prove God exists and why would it prove it ? Give an example.]

You guys shoulda got NASA to go out and find Jesus.

Jesus captures your imagination by threatening to burn you forever for not having faith in him.

NASA captures the imagination by landing robots on other planets to look for aliens.

Jesus never really had a chance. [Non Sequitur]

In other words, you've no evidence for alien life.

And then back it goes to the ad hominem and straw men again.

Got any arguments that aren't based on those fallacies?

RikuoAmero · 09-03-2015 11:48PM

Cen taurus wrote: »

Do you have anything other than false claims, premises, or fallacies for us ?

Does the bible have ties to the divine, yes or no? If yes, then things in it that can be proven true support the existence of the divine, whereas if ever things in it are proven false, then this reduces one's confidence in the existence of the divine (to be more specific, the divine entity called God)
If the bible doesn't have ties to the divine...then it can be safely ignored and there ought not to be any problem on your end if anyone is atheist.

hinault · 09-03-2015 11:48PM

RikuoAmero wrote: »

There is no physical evidence in support of the hypothesis of alien life, but there is statistical evidence in favour of it.

There's no physical evidence, but there is statistical evidence.

What statistical evidence? And what is the statistical evidence based on?:rolleyes:

RikuoAmero · 09-03-2015 11:50PM

hinault wrote: »

There's no physical evidence, but there is statistical evidence.

What statistical evidence? And what is the statistical evidence based on?:rolleyes:

I've mentioned it several times today. The large size of the universe, the high numbers of galaxies, stars and planets. The odds are in favour of the probability that at least one other planet out there also contains life, although we ought not to speculate at this stage what form that life is.

orubiru · 09-03-2015 11:52PM

Cen taurus wrote: »

In other words, you've no evidence for alien life.

And then back it goes to the ad hominem and straw men again.

Got any arguments that aren't based on those fallacies?

Failure To Realise I Was Not Being Serious Fallacy.

hinault · 09-03-2015 11:53PM

Cen taurus wrote: »

In other words, you've no evidence for alien life.

And then back it goes to the ad hominem and straw men again.

Got any arguments that aren't based on those fallacies?

You know it's ironic.

There are some here who rely upon less evidence to support their belief in the existence of alien life, while disregarding more copious evidence to support their disbelief in God!

Gotta love Boreds.ie

orubiru · 09-03-2015 11:53PM

hinault wrote: »

There's no physical evidence, but there is statistical evidence.

What statistical evidence? And what is the statistical evidence based on?:rolleyes:

Mathematics.

hinault · 09-03-2015 11:55PM

RikuoAmero wrote: »

I've mentioned it several times today. The large size of the universe, the high numbers of galaxies, stars and planets. The odds are in favour of the probability that at least one other planet out there also contains life, although we ought not to speculate at this stage what form that life is.

And yet there ain't one shred of physical evidence to support alien life given all that.

Bob Hope and no hope.

RikuoAmero · 09-03-2015 11:55PM

hinault wrote: »

You know it's ironic.

There are some here who rely upon less evidence to support their belief in the existence of alien life, while disregarding more copious evidence to support their disbelief in God!

Gotta love Boreds.ie

At least today, you guys have not provided ANY of this evidence in favour of your god. Also, that is a false equivocation fallacy.
In regards to my support of the alien life hypothesis, all I'm willing to do is say that it's likely that there's life out there somewhere. At no point am I saying anything else beyond that.
Compare that with theists such as yourself, who posit a specific god of a specific religion. That is far more nuanced than what I'm positing.

orubiru · 09-03-2015 11:55PM

Cen taurus wrote: »

Do you have anything other than false claims, premises, or fallacies for us ?

Do you have anything other than repeating the same nonsense that people have explained to you over and over and over?

hinault · 09-03-2015 11:56PM

orubiru wrote: »

Mathematics.

Any port in a storm more like:D

Cen taurus · 09-03-2015 11:56PM

RikuoAmero wrote: »

Does the bible have ties to the divine, yes or no? If yes, then things in it that can be proven true support the existence of the divine,

Great, tell us what would prove the bible has ties to the divine, and how it would be proof, and then tell us what would prove the divine and why it would prove it ?

RikuoAmero wrote: »

whereas if [Note the IF] ever things in it are proven false, then this reduces one's confidence [ Now its "reduces confidence, where his last claim was it would prove God does not exist] in the existence of the divine (to be more specific, the divine entity called God)

If [Note the IF] the bible doesn't have ties to the divine...then it can be safely ignored [FALSE Claim] and there ought not to be any problem on your end if anyone is atheist. [FALSE claim, I couldn't care less if anyone is an athiest]

IF. If I had a dollar for every time I heard if . . . . if someone's anty had Liathroidi, they'd be their uncle.

RikuoAmero · 09-03-2015 11:57PM

hinault wrote: »

And yet there ain't one shred of physical evidence to support alien life given all that.

Bob Hope and no hope.

Yes, I recognise that. At the moment, there is no physical evidence, but there are some very promising leads coming from NASA with Saturn's moons.
Have I ever claimed otherwise? Have I ever claimed to have specific knowledge of specific alien lifeforms, or claimed to have a specific belief of specific alien lifeforms?

Cen taurus · 09-03-2015 11:59PM

orubiru wrote: »

Do you have anything other than repeating the same nonsense that people have explained to you over and over and over?

If you keep using fallacies to support all you posts directed towards me, I'm only too happy to keep highlighting them

Next . . . .

Cen taurus · 10-03-2015 12:00AM

RikuoAmero wrote: »

Yes, I recognise that. At the moment, there is no physical evidence, but there are some very promising leads coming from NASA with Saturn's moons.
Have I ever claimed otherwise? Have I ever claimed to have specific knowledge of specific alien lifeforms, or claimed to have a specific belief of specific alien lifeforms?

We don't know, what do you claim about alien life and what do you base that claim on ?

hinault · 10-03-2015 12:00AM

RikuoAmero wrote: »

At least today, you guys have not provided ANY of this evidence in favour of your god. Also, that is a false equivocation fallacy.
In regards to my support of the alien life hypothesis, all I'm willing to do is say that it's likely that there's life out there somewhere. At no point am I saying anything else beyond that.
Compare that with theists such as yourself, who posit a specific god of a specific religion. That is far more nuanced than what I'm positing.

The contemporaneous accounts of the life of Jesus Christ, even by the standards for the time, are voluminous.

The histrocity of Christ is accepted by historians.

The fact that Christ founded a church which has lasted for 2,000 years and continues to grow despite trial and terror, is a sign in itself of special favour.

Manach · 10-03-2015 12:00AM

RikuoAmero wrote: »

Yes, I recognise that. At the moment, there is no physical evidence, but there are some very promising leads coming from NASA with Saturn's moons.
Have I ever claimed otherwise? Have I ever claimed to have specific knowledge of specific alien lifeforms, or claimed to have a specific belief of specific alien lifeforms?

You just want to believe? a la Mulder and Scully.

orubiru · 10-03-2015 12:01AM

Cen taurus wrote: »

If you keep using fallacies to support all you posts directed towards me, I'm only too happy to keep highlighting them

Next . . . .

I was hoping you might ask for "proof of Atheism" again...

RikuoAmero · 10-03-2015 12:01AM

Great, tell us what would prove the bible has ties to the divine, and how it would be proof, and then tell us what would prove the divine and why it would prove it ?

Since you're the theist in this situation, a guy who (in other threads at least) has claimed to be a catholic, a member of a christian denomination, why don't you tell me this? There's got to be something that in your mind makes sense, something that somehow serves as evidence for the claim "the bible has ties to the divine".

If you don't want to tell me, then how about this. For me, a book that actually is tied to an all-knowing divine being ought not to have one single mistake when it comes to describing reality. So let's toss out one example - bird's blood doesn't cure leprosy. We know this. Yet somehow, that's in the bible as a cure for leprosy.

RikuoAmero · 10-03-2015 12:03AM

Cen taurus wrote: »

We don't know, what do you claim about alien life and what do you base that claim on ?

Nothing. I claim nothing specific about alien life, other than the high probability, due to statistics, that it is likely to exist elsewhere than on Earth.
At the moment, I have no justification for any claim beyond that. I wouldn't have anything if I were to say something like "There's an alien race four hundred light years away who have six arms and three legs" or something along those lines.

Cen taurus · 10-03-2015 12:04AM

orubiru wrote: »

I was hoping you might ask for "proof of Atheism" again...

Why, have you got any yet that God does not exist ?

Or even any evidence, or even an argument not based on false premises, or fallacy ?

beerpong · 10-03-2015 12:04AM

Some questions for the believers:
Are all the gods throughout time real?
Where they different names for the same entity?
Is your God the same as the God of other faiths?
Is your personnel God the same as other people of your faith's personnel God?

Cen taurus · 10-03-2015 12:05AM

RikuoAmero wrote: »

Nothing. I claim nothing specific about alien life, other than the high probability, due to statistics, that it is likely to exist elsewhere than on Earth.
At the moment, I have no justification for any claim beyond that. I wouldn't have anything if I were to say something like "There's an alien race four hundred light years away who have six arms and three legs" or something along those lines.

So you hold your belief without any evidence, is that correct ?

Grand, have you any claims about theism or Christianity then ?

hinault · 10-03-2015 12:06AM

RikuoAmero wrote: »

Nothing. I claim nothing specific about alien life, other than the high probability, due to statistics, that it is likely to exist elsewhere than on Earth.
At the moment, I have no justification for any claim beyond that. I wouldn't have anything if I were to say something like "There's an alien race four hundred light years away who have six arms and three legs" or something along those lines.

"There's bound to be something, somewhere" is really what you're saying.

You accept that this amounts to less evidence for holding a belief, than the voluminous evidence that gets disregarded to dismiss the religious beliefs that some hold?

RikuoAmero · 10-03-2015 12:07AM

Cen taurus wrote: »

Grand, have you any claims about theism or Christianity then ?

Have theists/christians made (many) specific positive claims throughout the years? Yes.
Have those claims been supported by evidence? Nope, not as far as I can see.

Atheism/Existence of God Debates (Part 2)

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