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Ireland vs England, Sunday 1st March 3pm; RTE/BBC

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,616 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Big Nelly wrote: »
    He was on radio this morning on way into work, more or less said it was.....

    The radio misquoted the interview. The interviewer actually asked "is this your last home 6 nations game against England". To which poc responded with the joke. He didn't rule out next years 6n


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Gits_bone


    We have to hope first POC makes it to the WC and is playing as well as he is now before talk of anything else.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    theboy1 wrote: »
    Rob Kearney has to be the most frustrating teammate. He never, ever passes!!

    Pretty basic skill to switch the play two passes after catching a long opposition punt. instead Kearney just runs straight back into contact (often makes ground which is a credit to his strength). He could be so good if he just passed it. Baffling that none of his coaches have forced it upon him.

    There's no need to pass it after a punt. Just gives the opposition more time on th chase. If they're kick chase isn't good enough then a fast strong counter puts in a better position, territorially wise.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 216 ✭✭theboy1


    .ak wrote: »
    There's no need to pass it after a punt. Just gives the opposition more time on th chase. If they're kick chase isn't good enough then a fast strong counter puts in a better position, territorially wise.

    The person catching is in no position of vision.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    theboy1 wrote: »
    I doubt it, he has never been a passer.

    And this isn't true.

    Watch the 2013 final against ulster, for example. In attacking positions he's a great distributor. People just seem to get frustrated for not throwing the ball away...

    If anyone should be cirticized for not passing yesterday it's Payne. He had an opportunity to fix a man and give Zebo the ball on a one on one. Instead he arced and kept the ball. I thought as a 13 that was pretty mediocre play.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 216 ✭✭theboy1


    .ak wrote: »
    And this isn't true.

    Watch the 2013 final against ulster, for example. In attacking positions he's a great distributor. People just seem to get frustrated for not throwing the ball away...

    If anyone should be cirticized for not passing yesterday it's Payne. He had an opportunity to fix a man and give Zebo the ball on a one on one. Instead he arced and kept the ball. I thought as a 13 that was pretty mediocre play.
    I am sorry but it has been blatantly obvious for a while now that Kearney refuses to pass.

    I have seen him distribute the ball well in the past which makes his reluctance to release the ball all the more frustrating.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    theboy1 wrote: »
    The person catching is in no position of vision.

    No, the main reason the catcher moves the ball is to because the chase is aimed towards the kicker. You move the ball, it means the chase have to change direction, it's harder to get to the ball, and thus give the 2nd option more time to decide what to do, either kick or counter. It's nothing to do with vision.

    For example, what usually happens is RK's positioning is so good at reading the kick that he gets into position to early and knows exactly what to do. Next time he fields a kick watch where he gets tackled. Now think if he kicked or passed would we still have the ball? Where on the pitch could we have ended up? Instead we have the ball, and we have control at the base of a ruck, and we've eaten up any advantage of space the kicker tried to buy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    theboy1 wrote: »
    I am sorry but it has been blatantly obvious for a while now that Kearney refuses to pass.

    I have seen him distribute the ball well in the past which makes his reluctance to release the ball all the more frustrating.

    Only blatantly obvious because you don't like it when he doesn't. He's actually a keen distributor, but that doesn't mean he should do it when he's countering.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    theboy1 wrote: »
    I am sorry but it has been blatantly obvious for a while now that Kearney refuses to pass.

    I have seen him distribute the ball well in the past which makes his reluctance to release the ball all the more frustrating.

    If he's fielding kicks then he's generally behind everyone else and may have a winger retreating back that he could pass to. Of course if he did that the guy he passes to would be isolated and easily turned over. Watch what he does again. He tries to find an area where there is a decent amount of support close by, he runs into contact around that area so that Ireland can set up a structured phase off him. You can be sure that is exactly what he is being asked to do.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    theboy1 wrote: »
    I am sorry but it has been blatantly obvious for a while now that Kearney refuses to pass.

    I have seen him distribute the ball well in the past which makes his reluctance to release the ball all the more frustrating.

    He doesn't need to pass. He usually takes contact and recycles the ball in a safe place.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He doesn't need to pass. He usually takes contact and recycles the ball in a safe place.

    Usually soaks up a minimum of two defenders whilst he is at it. It's the way he is used, he is actually not the easiest player to ground, stays on his feet in the tackle and is very physical so it's a good way for us to restart and gives us a platform to work off.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Speaking of Kearney, probably had the best defensive display of his career yesterday, rewatching the game and I couldn't believe some of the tackles he put in, at times I thought it was henshaw or Payne. He also was very effective at rucking past the ball, especially in the build up to the henshaw try.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Gits_bone


    .ak wrote: »
    And this isn't true.

    Watch the 2013 final against ulster, for example. In attacking positions he's a great distributor. People just seem to get frustrated for not throwing the ball away...

    If anyone should be cirticized for not passing yesterday it's Payne. He had an opportunity to fix a man and give Zebo the ball on a one on one. Instead he arced and kept the ball. I thought as a 13 that was pretty mediocre play.

    13 shoulds be agile
    12 should be yard gainers

    -imo


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Because a 12 is often first receiver off the 10 or asked to offer a first contact situation off first phase then yeah, I believe a 12 should be a gain line breaker. However we've seen that doesn't have to be the case. Thing with henshaw is he has great feet and balance so he actually has the best of both worlds.

    But for me Payne isn't that agile 13, nor is he supposed to be. Joe is looking at this pairing as a powerhouse unit. Excellent in defence and big units as chasers, with plenty of fullback experience between them. However you still need a 13 who can read the defence and how to distribute, which Payne does not. At least not yet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,672 ✭✭✭elefant


    England
    Is there anywhere online I could watch the match back? I missed most of the second half :(


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Gits_bone


    .ak wrote: »
    Because a 12 is often first receiver off the 10 or asked to offer a first contact situation off first phase then yeah, I believe a 12 should be a gain line breaker. However we've seen that doesn't have to be the case. Thing with henshaw is he has great feet and balance so he actually has the best of both worlds.

    But for me Payne isn't that agile 13, nor is he supposed to be. Joe is looking at this pairing as a powerhouse unit. Excellent in defence and big units as chasers, with plenty of fullback experience between them. However you still need a 13 who can read the defence and how to distribute, which Payne does not. At least not yet.

    Where do people get this from? Henshaw played most of his rugby in centre for Connacht.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭S12b


    elefant wrote: »
    Is there anywhere online I could watch the match back? I missed most of the second half :(

    If you're in Ireland, RTE player


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,672 ✭✭✭elefant


    England
    S12b wrote: »
    If you're in Ireland, RTE player

    Ah deadly. Couldn't find it earlier when I checked. Thanks!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    Gits_bone wrote: »
    Where do people get this from? Henshaw played most of his rugby in centre for Connacht.

    Get what? All he said is that they have plenty of full back experience which is certainly true of Henshaw.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,449 ✭✭✭evil_seed


    Gits_bone wrote: »
    Where do people get this from? Henshaw played most of his rugby in centre for Connacht.

    Henshaw started his pro career at full back. and played there for pretty much a season and a half, if not 2 seasons. He only moved to 13 this season.

    But don't let correct information get in your way


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭Swiwi.


    iroced wrote: »
    In a game where they've been globally dominated, to finish just 10 pts behind (and could have been closer had they been a little more patient towards the end) is noteworthy. England finished very strong :eek:.

    One of the problems with a gameplan based around kicking and pressure is that while it is extremely effective if you have world class halves, it does have a tendancy to only advance the scoreboard in multiples of 3 (I think Ireland have 2 tries in 3 games) - you can quite easily completely dominate a match for 70 minutes, and not have that massive a lead. Ireland had something like 55-60% territory and possession but lead with just 10 points going into the last 10 minutes. If 36 hadn't done his obstruction-thing, it could have been very close. If you give NZ or Australia 60% territory and possession it will be 29-9 or even 39-9 heading into the last 10 minutes, not 19-9. If this game had been against NZ, I would still have had some confidence of getting the victory with Ireland tiring and only 10 points in it. Look at the Wales game last season, NZ put on 2 or 3 tries in the last few minutes. Provided Murray & Sexton stay fit, Ireland can win a RWC with this gameplan, it's been done before, but it can unravel quickly if a bigger lead is not established heading into the last quarter. IMO anyway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    .ak wrote: »
    Only blatantly obvious because you don't like it when he doesn't. He's actually a keen distributor, but that doesn't mean he should do it when he's countering.

    I disagree. Nearly every time he runs directly into the first opposition tacker. Rarely gains good ground. Doesn't look to pass. Rarely makes good ground.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    England
    Gits_bone wrote: »
    Where do people get this from? Henshaw played most of his rugby in centre for Connacht.

    You clearly don't know much about Henshaw - started his career at fullback and played most of his first season there, only switched to centre during his second season. People who have actually watched him since he burst onto the scene will tell you he is an excellent full back.


  • Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭TommyOM


    Anyone know what position he played at for Leinster schools??


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭its_phil


    TommyOM wrote: »
    Anyone know what position he played at for Leinster schools??

    Are you talking about Henshaw? He's a product of Connacht school Marist College.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭its_phil


    Gits_bone wrote: »
    Where do people get this from? Henshaw played most of his rugby in centre for Connacht.

    Where do you get this from? Most of his rugby in the previous two seasons has been at 15, with McSharry 12 and Griffin 13. This is his first year full time at 13.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    LorMal wrote: »
    I disagree. Nearly every time he runs directly into the first opposition tacker. Rarely gains good ground. Doesn't look to pass. Rarely makes good ground.

    Stats would prove you wrong on ground gained.

    And what are you disagreeing with? He has a very good assist rate. Most people base their opinions on what he does after he fields a bell, rather than what he does when attacking off a set piece.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    .ak wrote: »
    Stats would prove you wrong on ground gained.

    And what are you disagreeing with? He has a very good assist rate. Most people base their opinions on what he does after he fields a bell, rather than what he does when attacking off a set piece.

    Yes, I think he is a good player. What I am referring to is when he has caught a long punt and is countering - much like the previous poster. I think he tends to be very predictable - generally runs into the first tackler. Doesn't off load, doesn't look for a pass - very occasionally kick chases. Maybe that is under instruction?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭Swiwi.


    Someone licking their lips at what the next AB coach will achieve for them?

    Happy enough with Hansen at the moment TBH. His record is every bit as good as Schmidt's. But we can discuss again in November...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    LorMal wrote: »
    Yes, I think he is a good player. What I am referring to is when he has caught a long punt and is countering - much like the previous poster. I think he tends to be very predictable - generally runs into the first tackler. Doesn't off load, doesn't look for a pass - very occasionally kick chases. Maybe that is under instruction?

    Why would you offload is my point? It puts the support under pressure. Only time he should be passing in that scenario is if sexton is outside him and had a better angle to clear.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Gits_bone


    its_phil wrote: »
    Where do you get this from? Most of his rugby in the previous two seasons has been at 15, with McSharry 12 and Griffin 13. This is his first year full time at 13.

    Was sure he was centre most of the time. I stand corrected!


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    Swiwi. wrote: »
    Not now Pudsy. I mean long term. Not hard to see Sexton and maybe Byrne become Leinsters options at 10 for example. His main asset is versatility which gives him his Irish bench spot.

    With genuine versatility and world class goal kicking he is an outstanding squad player for any team and Leinster have needed him massively this season. I've said it with regards to J Murphy a few times, but not every player needs to become top class or have that potential, it's not realistic or possible. Leinster will fight tooth and nail to keep him in the face of what I'd expect to be fairly serious offers from Francd


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    .ak wrote: »
    Why would you offload is my point? It puts the support under pressure. Only time he should be passing in that scenario is if sexton is outside him and had a better angle to clear.

    Maybe I just don't know what I am talking about (very high possibility), but don't other full backs eg Hogg, Halfpenny, ometimes beat a couple of tacklers and then pass/off load in order to start a counterattack?
    RK always seems to get smothered up by the first tackler.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Gits_bone


    LorMal wrote: »
    Maybe I just don't know what I am talking about (very high possibility), but don't other full backs eg Hogg, Halfpenny, ometimes beat a couple of tacklers and then pass/off load in order to start a counterattack?
    RK always seems to get smothered up by the first tackler.

    When you think about it, I'd have RK 4th choice in the 6 nations.

    Hogg/Halfpenny/Brown all would be ahead of him for me. He's reliable and steady.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Gits_bone wrote: »
    When you think about it, I'd have RK 4th choice in the 6 nations.

    Hogg/Halfpenny/Brown all would be ahead of him for me. He's reliable and steady.

    In fairness, that is a very talented group. I would tend to agree though.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Gits_bone


    LorMal wrote: »
    In fairness, that is a very talented group. I would tend to agree though.

    Yeah there's a lot of quality in those positions these days!


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,963 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    England
    Brown of last year maybe, but this season he's been quite average.

    Hogg is exciting with ball in hand but can be positionally very naive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭SaveOurLyric


    Gits_bone wrote: »
    When you think about it, I'd have RK 4th choice in the 6 nations.

    Hogg/Halfpenny/Brown all would be ahead of him for me. He's reliable and steady.

    When you really think about though, you'd have him first choice.

    None of those 3 can recover attacking kicks as well as Kearney. Or run fielded balls as neatly back to the safety of their teammates to win a ruck.

    The dream back line would be 3 Robs, and 2 Tommys. And one of each on the bench.


  • Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭TommyOM


    its_phil wrote: »
    Are you talking about Henshaw? He's a product of Connacht school Marist College.

    I saw his school was in Athlone and thought he played in the Leinster schools.

    The question still stands though if anyone can answer?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    England
    Just watching the game again - we are a bloody good team, people.


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Silas Gentle Yokel


    Neil3030 wrote: »
    Just watching the game again - we are a bloody good team, people.

    If the attacking play can ever click we're going to murder somebody.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭Swiwi.


    If the attacking play can ever click we're going to murder somebody.

    Scotland will probably oblige for you there IO. Wales would be a lot more satisfying though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    LorMal wrote: »
    Maybe I just don't know what I am talking about (very high possibility), but don't other full backs eg Hogg, Halfpenny, ometimes beat a couple of tacklers and then pass/off load in order to start a counterattack?
    RK always seems to get smothered up by the first tackler.

    No, you're right, but RK isn't the type of fullback who can step around defenders. If he was in sure he would pass. But there's no point in passing to another player when a defence is set. He's pragmatic, and it works.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    When you really think about though, you'd have him first choice.

    None of those 3 can recover attacking kicks as well as Kearney. Or run fielded balls as neatly back to the safety of their teammates to win a ruck.

    The dream back line would be 3 Robs, and 2 Tommys. And one of each on the bench.

    We do tend to get a tad over excited about our players:). Suddenly every Irish player is 'the best in the Northern hemisphere' in their respective positions.
    We love a good gloat. The Indo runs a big article today about how the English papers praised us and slated their own team. We don't make good winners.
    Of course the same players will be castigated if we get thumped by the Welsh.
    A bit of humility and less chest thumping would seem wise at this juncture.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Gits_bone wrote: »
    When you think about it, I'd have RK 4th choice in the 6 nations.

    Hogg/Halfpenny/Brown all would be ahead of him for me. He's reliable and steady.

    For me he's better than those, except halfpenny when he's on form.

    But it depends what you want from your fb I suppose. He's a specialist at what he does really.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Gits_bone


    When you really think about though, you'd have him first choice.

    None of those 3 can recover attacking kicks as well as Kearney. Or run fielded balls as neatly back to the safety of their teammates to win a ruck.

    The dream back line would be 3 Robs, and 2 Tommys. And one of each on the bench.

    Not sure if serious?

    If you are Tommy Bowe has been ineffective and I think if you had Dave Kearney in there he'd have done the same job.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    LorMal wrote: »
    We do tend to get a tad over excited about our players:). Suddenly every Irish player is 'the best in the Northern hemisphere' in their respective positions.
    We love a good gloat. The Indo runs a big article today about how the English papers praised us and slated their own team. We don't make good winners.
    Of course the same players will be castigated if we get thumped by the Welsh.
    A bit of humility and less chest thumping would seem wise at this juncture.

    ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    If the attacking play can ever click we're going to murder somebody.

    Jesus I hope not. We just want to win a game of rugby, killing someone might be a bit much.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    Gits_bone wrote: »
    Not sure if serious?

    If you are Tommy Bowe has been ineffective and I think if you had Dave Kearney in there he'd have done the same job.

    It seems like you're basing your entire opinion on players based on the last 3 games


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    LorMal wrote: »
    We do tend to get a tad over excited about our players:). Suddenly every Irish player is 'the best in the Northern hemisphere' in their respective positions.
    We love a good gloat. The Indo runs a big article today about how the English papers praised us and slated their own team. We don't make good winners.
    Of course the same players will be castigated if we get thumped by the Welsh.
    A bit of humility and less chest thumping would seem wise at this juncture.


    Speak for yourself. Most rugby folk I know are quite humble boarding on pessimistic when it comes to the national team, even now. I think most are wary about our trip to Cardiff.


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